Dating and marrying noncatholics

[jmcrae]

How do you find out if they’re Catholic or not until you start dating them? If you’re somewhere and see someone of the opposite sex that you find attractive, do you just walk up and ask if they’re Catholic or not and whether or not they consider themself a cafeteria Catholic before you ask them out?

Why are you asking out perfect strangers? (And why are perfect strangers accepting dates with people they don’t know?)

You should be friends with them, first. Hang out with them in big groups, make friends, find out about them, meet their families at a picnic, barbecue, whatever, and get talking about this and that, casually bring up the fact that you are Catholic (What did you do last weekend? After Mass, I went golfing with some buddies from work. I went to Mass with my mother and then we went out for lunch. What about you? Do you go to Church? Really, what church? Oh, you’re Episcopalian, isn’t that interesting. Oh, you don’t go to church, you go to Temple, really? How fascinating. Oh, you hang out at the poetry club on Sunday mornings; that’s so cool! Is that the club that Robert Kroetsch reads at?) And then move along until you meet a girl in your group who says to you, “Really? You go to Mass? I go to St. Joseph’s; where do you go?”

 

[Seatuck]

One of the jobs that spouses take on when they make marriage vows is to help each other be the people that God wants them to be and to help each other get into heaven. It’s a difficult role for a non Catholic to fill for a Catholic. It’s difficult for the Catholic to encourage their non catholic spouse without too much pressure as well.
Just the whole concept that you aren’t in union enough to receive communion together is painful. I personally couldn’t do it.

 

[Guitar]

Yes, it is inevitable.

Your mother compromised.

She let your dad raise you Catholic, she went to Mass, and she “went along with” Church teaching on contraception. Those are all compromises.

No, she did not compromise.

She had no views of her own on these matters to be compromised. She was not going against any personal view or religious bent that was in opposition to these things, she just lacked any reason to see them as either right or wrong but chose to follow them because she loved and trusted Dad.

(She actually didn’t go to Mass herself until she converted in the last months of her life. She made darn sure we did, though, with shirts tucked in and appropriate attitudes.)

My mother did not think she was compromising anything, and said so often enough.

 

[Guitar]

This marriage brought her closer to the Catholic Church than she probably would have if they never married. Is this really a BAD thing?

It’s getting off the original topic, but just FYI, as per post above, she converted in the final months of her life.

 

[Bataar]

Why are you asking out perfect strangers? (And why are perfect strangers accepting dates with people they don’t know?)

You should be friends with them, first. Hang out with them in big groups, make friends, find out about them, meet their families at a picnic, barbecue, whatever, and get talking about this and that, casually bring up the fact that you are Catholic (What did you do last weekend? After Mass, I went golfing with some buddies from work. I went to Mass with my mother and then we went out for lunch. What about you? Do you go to Church? Really, what church? Oh, you’re Episcopalian, isn’t that interesting. Oh, you don’t go to church, you go to Temple, really? How fascinating. Oh, you hang out at the poetry club on Sunday mornings; that’s so cool! Is that the club that Robert Kroetsch reads at?) And then move along until you meet a girl in your group who says to you, “Really? You go to Mass? I go to St. Joseph’s; where do you go?”

To be honest, I’m not asking out anyone, it was more of a rhetorical question.

But still, to do what you say, you have to do something to get to know them. Let’s say you see someone at a grocery store and you start chatting, they’re probably going to want to get to know you a little before taking you to their family picnic or BBQ.

 

[Lady_Bug]

For young Cathlolic marriage seekers, who intend to raise children, it probably is more important to secure a Catholic spouse.

But for those of us too old to marry or to have children, it makes little difference.

does it really not matter once you get beyond a certain age, whether your spouse has the same faith as you? I’m just asking.

 

[Guitar]

does it really not matter once you get beyond a certain age, whether your spouse has the same faith as you? I’m just asking.

Sometimes it doesn’t matter quite so much … or maybe it’s a case of the issues you have to deal with sometimes being smaller or different.

I played for a Catholic wedding not so far back for a couple in their 60s who had been engaged as young’uns but broke it off because of religious differences.

He married someone else, she lived a quiet single life with her mother and kept in touch with her ex’s sisters who remained friends. Through the sisters they met up again a few years after his wife died of cancer. The spark rekindled, they decided that friendship and companionship were important enough to them that they could let each other have their different views in peace, they no longer had to worry about whose faith children would be raised in or parental disapproval and were past fussing over/no longer had to deal with the things that made it too hard the first time round. He sometimes comes to Mass with her, and sometimes doesn’t, she sometimes goes to his church after she’s been to Mass, and sometimes doesn’t, and they live a very peaceful and companionable life that wasn’t possible when they were younger.

 

[flyingfish]

A lot of the posts in this thread could be applied to most Catholics, not just non-Catholics. A very small percentage of people who consider themselves Catholic actually follow the Church when it comes to more conservative matters like birth control, or even weekly mass.

 

[Sr_Sally]

To be honest, I’m not asking out anyone, it was more of a rhetorical question.

But still, to do what you say, you have to do something to get to know them. Let’s say you see someone at a grocery store and you start chatting, they’re probably going to want to get to know you a little before taking you to their family picnic or BBQ.

Well yes, but presumably the girl (example) you chat with in the grocery store is a neighbor so you run into her more than once at the store, or perhaps in other places around the neighborhood. It is after several of these meetings that you might suggest she join a group of other neighbors who are going to the park. After 5 or 6 meetings you should be able to work in a mention of Mass into a conversation about what you did that weekend.

 

[Wonderboo]

So, I’m an Episcopalian married to a very strong Roman Catholic. We’re making it work, I know lot of people making it work. That being said I know a lot of people who haven’t made it work and it isn’t just the non Catholic party’s fault. I haven’t been married that long (a year) but heres what I think of the whole thing:
For it to work there has to be a fundamental respect and both people have to know what they’re getting into. When my husband and I started talking about getting married it also meant we had to start talking about kids and what would happen to them. I fully respect his being Catholic, I do go to Mass with him, pray with him etc. I’ve made it a point to learn all I can about the Catholic Church (I have an MA in Catholic Theology) so that I can teach our children. I know he promised that our children will be raise Catholic, and I respect that and they will be (unless when they are older they choose otherwise).
However, he also comes to church with me, has learned a great deal about my faith (which is just as important to me). Its important for our children to know they are Catholic and all that that means but it is also important for them to know that daddy respects mommy even though he thinks she’s wrong.
I think the big place mixed marriages fail is that there is a lack of respect, the catholic expects the non catholic to respect them and vice versa but so often we fail at it. I may demand respect but fail to give it. Once that happens on something as important as faith, it isn’t going to work.
The short of it:
Date or marry a non catholic but know what you’re getting into.

 

[rciadan]

I just don’t understand how one can seriously date (with the intent of contemplating marriage) one who is so diametrically opposed to my core (and uncomprimisable) beliefes, such as;

• The real presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament
• The infallible Doctrines of Mother Church such as
• Ordination of Men only
• Immaculate Conception
• Mary’s Assumption into HeavenThe evil of abortion
• Christian Denominations that condone abortion
• Homosexualiy (active, not “tendancies”)
• Christian Denominations that condone active homosexuality
• Contraception
• Christian Denominations that condone contraception

This is not a complete list of concerns…

 

[jmcrae]

To be honest, I’m not asking out anyone, it was more of a rhetorical question.

But still, to do what you say, you have to do something to get to know them. Let’s say you see someone at a grocery store and you start chatting, they’re probably going to want to get to know you a little before taking you to their family picnic or BBQ.

And why wouldn’t they want to get to know you better before accepting an invitation for a date? I wouldn’t invite you to my picnic or barbecue, but I would get into your car alone with you?

You don’t date people you meet in the grocery store, unless you also know them from someplace else, and the grocery store just happened to be the place where you had a chance to start a conversation - you date people that you go to school with, or work with, or children of your parents’ friends who are close in age to you (that you have been to picnics with in the past), etc.

I dated a guy that I met on the bus, when I was of dating age, but I had spoken to him on the bus many times before we started dating, and I knew where he lived, had met his sisters, and so on - it wasn’t an out-of-the-blue thing where we were complete strangers and then suddenly started dating.

 

[Wonderboo]

I just don’t understand how one can seriously date (with the intent of contemplating marriage) one who is so diametrically opposed to my core (and uncomprimisable) beliefes, such as;

• The real presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament
• The infallible Doctrines of Mother Church such as
• Ordination of Men only
• Immaculate Conception
• Mary’s Assumption into HeavenThe evil of abortion
• Christian Denominations that condone abortion
• Homosexualiy (active, not “tendancies”)
• Christian Denominations that condone active homosexuality
• Contraception
• Christian Denominations that condone contraception

This is not a complete list of concerns…

On most of those things I agree with my catholic husband and on the ones I don’t agree with trust me I’m not so opposed that it doesn’t work because I UNDERSTAND and trust me there are lots of Catholics in the world who don’t agree with all of that

 

[Bataar]

And why wouldn’t they want to get to know you better before accepting an invitation for a date? I wouldn’t invite you to my picnic or barbecue, but I would get into your car alone with you?

I believe that people get to know each other while on a date. Isn’t that the point?

You don’t date people you meet in the grocery store, unless you also know them from someplace else, and the grocery store just happened to be the place where you had a chance to start a conversation

Why not? If you meet someone there and have a quick conversation and find them interesting, why wouldn’t you try to get their number to see if something further can develop?

• you date people that you go to school with, or work with, or children of your parents’ friends who are close in age to you (that you have been to picnics with in the past), etc.

That sucks. No dating for me then.

I dated a guy that I met on the bus, when I was of dating age, but I had spoken to him on the bus many times before we started dating, and I knew where he lived, had met his sisters, and so on - it wasn’t an out-of-the-blue thing where we were complete strangers and then suddenly started dating.

Right on, but not everyone has the luxury of having the chance to interact with the same person on a daily basis. My brother met his wife (a good Catholic girl) at a college party. They didn’t have classes together or anything. It was a “chance” encounter. He started talking to her, got her number and they started dating.

 

[rciadan]

On most of those things I agree with my catholic husband and on the ones I don’t agree with trust me I’m not so opposed that it doesn’t work because I UNDERSTAND and trust me there are lots of Catholics in the world who don’t agree with all of that

I would have the same concerns, maybe even graver, if she claimed to be Catholic and did not share these beliefs! Some things are just deal breakers.

 

[Guitar]

I just don’t understand how one can seriously date (with the intent of contemplating marriage) one who is so diametrically opposed to my core (and uncomprimisable) beliefes, such as;

• The real presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament
• The infallible Doctrines of Mother Church such as
• Ordination of Men only
• Immaculate Conception
• Mary’s Assumption into HeavenThe evil of abortion
• Christian Denominations that condone abortion
• Homosexualiy (active, not “tendancies”)
• Christian Denominations that condone active homosexuality
• Contraception
• Christian Denominations that condone contraception

This is not a complete list of concerns…

Is it not a little bit of a stretch to say that all non-Catholics have diametrically opposing views on all these things? Maybe you are not assuming this but that is the way I read your post.

My non-Catholic mother either shared my father’s view on these things (active homosexuality and abortion being two examples) or held a neutral view/didn’t accept it herself but supported/didn’t interfere with his definite view. For example, she personally was not opposed to artifical birth control but once assured there was no way she would be expected to have baby after baby after baby regardless of her own views or health, she had no issue with living out Catholic practice. She didn’t accept the Real Presence until her very late conversion but never said or did anything whatsoever to contradict Dad’s belief or undermine his passing it on to us. Obviously shared belief is the best circumstance, but one can not share a belief without actively opposing it and arguing over it at every bend in the road.

 

[Thomas63116]

So, I’m an Episcopalian married to a very strong Roman Catholic. We’re making it work, I know lot of people making it work. That being said I know a lot of people who haven’t made it work and it isn’t just the non Catholic party’s fault. I haven’t been married that long (a year) but heres what I think of the whole thing:
For it to work there has to be a fundamental respect and both people have to know what they’re getting into. When my husband and I started talking about getting married it also meant we had to start talking about kids and what would happen to them. I fully respect his being Catholic, I do go to Mass with him, pray with him etc. I’ve made it a point to learn all I can about the Catholic Church (I have an MA in Catholic Theology) so that I can teach our children. I know he promised that our children will be raise Catholic, and I respect that and they will be (unless when they are older they choose otherwise).
However, he also comes to church with me, has learned a great deal about my faith (which is just as important to me). Its important for our children to know they are Catholic and all that that means but it is also important for them to know that daddy respects mommy even though he thinks she’s wrong.
I think the big place mixed marriages fail is that there is a lack of respect, the catholic expects the non catholic to respect them and vice versa but so often we fail at it. I may demand respect but fail to give it. Once that happens on something as important as faith, it isn’t going to work.
The short of it:
Date or marry a non catholic but know what you’re getting into.

I think this is very well-stated.

 

[rciadan]

Is it not a little bit of a stretch to say that all non-Catholics have diametrically opposing views on all these things? Maybe you are not assuming this but that is the way I read your post.

My non-Catholic mother either shared my father’s view on these things (active homosexuality and abortion being two examples) or held a neutral view/didn’t accept it herself but supported/didn’t interfere with his definite view. For example, she personally was not opposed to artifical birth control but once assured there was no way she would be expected to have baby after baby after baby regardless of her own views or health, she had no issue with living out Catholic practice. She didn’t accept the Real Presence until her very late conversion but never said or did anything whatsoever to contradict Dad’s belief or undermine his passing it on to us. Obviously shared belief is the best circumstance, but one can not share a belief without actively opposing it and arguing over it at every bend in the road.

No, I do not. How many non Catholics have you met who believe in the real true presence of Christ in the Eucharist? Of course, many of the issues can be such that you both agree, such as abortion and contraception, etc., and that is a start. I think that your case is probably an exception to the rule, as witnessed to by the posts on this thread. I am also stating my concerns regarding how I would be able to relate to another and NOT how others should expect to do so…

 

[1ke]

What marriage DOESN’T involve compromise of some kind?

You’ve missed the point.

Religion is not something that can be compromised on. The Catholic teaching is either true or it isn’t. The other denomination’s teaching is either true or it isn’t. It cannot be both at the same time. It can’t be compromised.

What color you paint the bedroom, which job you take, what city you live in… certainly these things can be compromised on because there is no issue of objective truth in these things.

I admit I’m a little taken for a loop with this one. While I see it still fits your original point I fail to see it as a negative. In this instance it was the *unbeliever *who made the compromise and decided to engage in more Catholic practices. So many end up going the other way and it’s the Catholic party that compromises. This marriage brought her closer to the Catholic Church than she probably would have if they never married. Is this really a BAD thing?

I didn’t say it was a bad thing. I said it was a compromise.

 

[Sierrah]

It is not that they are anti Catholic. They just *think *diferent, it seems.

Most certainly anticatholic. One guy went on and on for an hour about how great the movie “Doubt” was for revealing the truth about the church…this is the kind of stuff I have to deal with all the time and it get old really fast.