Dating, higher education, sex ratios, and the hookup culture

[Vico]

Actually I’m suggesting that if a man isn’t willing to make a commitment then the woman shouldn’t waste her time. She’s clearly too good for him. My other comments were rebuttals to the ridiculous claims that in some situations shacking up is better for the woman. It isn’t. In those cases where it works out in the end you almost always find that if the woman had insisted on marriage prior to cohabitation that the man admits that he would have eventually acquiesced. The guy who is marriage material will get married sooner or later, the guy who isn’t will never will. Shacking up increases the chances that when it’s discovered which category the guy is in, it’s too late for the woman to find someone else.

There are some other circumstances. When I was in the eleventh grade (age 17), a Catholic girlfriend in the tenth grade (age 16) wanted to marry me. The next year she transferred to another school and we never met again.

 

[Xantippe]

There are some other circumstances. When I was in the eleventh grade (age 17), a Catholic girlfriend in the tenth grade (age 16) wanted to marry me. The next year she transferred to another school and we never met again.

Right.

The couple might genuinely be much too young or have some other impediment. (When I was in the Peace Corps, for instance, crazy as it sounds, Peace Corps volunteers were not allowed to get married without permission from Peace Corps.)

 

[Denise1957]

Meh, a lot of married men after being married to the same woman after all those years trade in their wives for a younger model. There are no guarantees in life, even when one lives in virtue. Bad things do happen to good people.

You’re right. There are no guarantees in life, even if one lives in virtue. Look at what happened to many of the saints…they were martyred. Nowadays we want to live a comfortable life, without the possibility of anything going wrong. Bad things do indeed happen to good people, but it doesn’t preclude living according to standards of virtue.

 

[MatthewTrainor]

“Eventually”? The decision to marry should be a mutual understanding. You’re describing a siege, one party emotionally wearing down another until they agree to marriage. Such a state does not lead to the healthiest of marriages.

So you agree then that if the woman does not receive a commitment within a reasonable amount of time, she should kick him to the curb.

I’m dubious about this “too late” thing. It’s just a short distance between “too late”, “sour milk”, and “damaged goods.”

The “biological clock” is not just a social construct, and only applies to women.

 

[MatthewTrainor]

Meh, a lot of married men after being married to the same woman after all those years trade in their wives for a younger model. There are no guarantees in life, even when one lives in virtue. Bad things do happen to good people.

Married men who abandon their wives, who they swore before God that they would stay with no matter what until death, and then live in sin with another woman, will quite literally have Hell to pay…

 

[MatthewTrainor]

Re: the famous cow-buying analogy. Here’s an answer:

1. I’m not a cow.
2. I don’t want anybody to buy me.

I agree that it is a bad analogy. However there is a give and take involved in marriage the same way there is in a consumer transaction.

If you are interested in marriage, you are seeking to find a man who will give up all possible mating opportunities with all other women as long as you both shall live in exchange for a similar promise from you. Evolutionarily speaking this is much more difficult for men than it is for women for one simple reason. A woman can only carry a child of a single man at any one time whereas a man can, biologically if not ethically, have dozens of women pregnant with his children at the same time. In the evolutionary sense, the man has reduced his chances of successful reproduction while the woman increases her chances of success.

Proper socialization and education can override base instinct, but it takes more than just a momentary agreement. This is why marriage has a such ceremonial formality and grandeur surrounding its occasion, to impress on the participants the full import of the commitment.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

So you agree then that if the woman does not receive a commitment within a reasonable amount of time, she should kick him to the curb.

Depends, does she want to be married? Anyone who is looking to settle down would do well to not allow themselves to be strung along by someone who does not want to commit. That’s common sense and gender aside. But the assumption that women want to get married and men don’t want to be tied down is a little dated, at least as far as millennials go.

The OP was very interesting, but college students don’t tell the whole story. Remember, there are lots of people who don’t go to college, and their lives look very different. For example, the out of wedlock birth rate among non college graduates is extremely alarming.

 

[TeachCatechism]

Something that I haven’t seen addressed is why women might prefer men with higher education levels.

At the end of the day, I believe women are ultimately looking for men to be three things: leader, provider, protector.

They want a man who fulfills those roles physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. Right or wrong, they may believe college graduates better meet these requirements.

As to why they are willing to engage in casual sex during the dating process, because that’s how society tells them they can keep a man. It’s constantly reinforced in pop culture that if a man doesn’t express interest in sleeping with a woman, he must be gay. It also tells them that if he’s straight he will chase anything in a skirt unless he’s getting some at home from his girlfriend. That’s our culture.

I’m not looking for a man who is a leader, provider or protector and many educated women aren’t. If anything that would be uneducated women.

 

[TeachCatechism]

So you agree then that if the woman does not receive a commitment within a reasonable amount of time, she should kick him to the curb.

The “biological clock” is not just a social construct, and only applies to women.

Actually the clock applies to both genders. Sure men can have kids late in life but they have issues too. Not to mention that most women dont want a much older man.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

Actually the clock applies to both genders. Sure men can have kids late in life but they have issues too. Not to mention that most women dont want a much older man.

But many men don’t “hear” the clock for quite some time.

 

[Xantippe]

The “biological clock” is not just a social construct, and only applies to women.

Eh, it’s somewhat slower, but it also applies to men.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternal_age_effect

The male reproductive process is very glitchy because what’s happening is the body is making copies of copies of copies of copies:

“In contrast to oogenesis, the production of sperm cells is a lifelong process. Each year after puberty, spermatogonia (precursors of the spermatozoa) divide meiotically about 23 times. By the age of 40, the spermatogonia will have undergone about 660 such divisions, compared to 200 at age 20. Copying errors sometimes happen during the DNA replication preceding these cell divisions, which can lead to new (de novo) mutations in the sperm DNA. A study of 78 Icelandic families found that each additional year in the age of the father causes about two new mutations in the child. Regarding the increased risk at very young paternal ages, an international study indicates that the DNA mutation rate in very young fathers may also be elevated.”

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I’m not looking for a man who is a leader, provider or protector and many educated women aren’t. If anything that would be uneducated women.

What? You don’t want a man who can provide for, lead, and protect his family? What do you want, a starving artist who’s always “between jobs”, can’t make a decision, and can’t even stand up to his mother, much less anyone else?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

What? You don’t want a man who can provide for, lead, and protect his family? What do you want, a starving artist who’s always “between jobs”, can’t make a decision, and can’t even stand up to his mother, much less anyone else?

yes, that statement seemed odd to me too. My wife is the breadwinner and I am the stay at home dad, but I am a leader, a protector and provider for this family.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

yes, that statement seemed odd to me too. My wife is the breadwinner and I am the stay at home dad, but I am a leader, a protector and provider for this family.

Hubby and I are 20-something DINKS, and he is and always will be the leader, protector, and provider in our family.

I know a lot of men who wouldn’t be good at it or even interested in taking on the role. I was never attracted to those men.

 

[pianistclare]

What? You don’t want a man who can provide for, lead, and protect his family? What do you want, a starving artist who’s always “between jobs”, can’t make a decision, and can’t even stand up to his mother, much less anyone else?

+1. I also thought that was a bizarre statement.

 

[TeachCatechism]

But many men don’t “hear” the clock for quite some time.

Well then they shouldn’t be upset that at 50 they aren’t attractive to much younger women.

 

[TeachCatechism]

What? You don’t want a man who can provide for, lead, and protect his family? What do you want, a starving artist who’s always “between jobs”, can’t make a decision, and can’t even stand up to his mother, much less anyone else?

No, I want a man who works (or is a stay at home spouse)but I don’t need a man to protect, provide or lead me I can do all of those myself. Rather I seek my equal my sole mate.

 

[TeachCatechism]

+1. I also thought that was a bizarre statement.

Why is it bizarre? Some of us can take care of ourselves.

 

[pianistclare]

Why is it bizarre? Some of us can take care of ourselves.

Read the Bible.
It says: “It is not good for man to be alone”.
We’re made complimentary for a reason.
Needing someone does not mean one is helpless.

 

[TeachCatechism]

Read the Bible.
It says: “It is not good for man to be alone”.
We’re made complimentary for a reason.
Needing someone does not mean one is helpless.

That’s not what I said. I said I don’t need a man to be my provider, protector or leader. I do all of that. I want a companion, not my boss.