M
MatthewTrainor
Guest
Wow! You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.
Evolutionary psychology is about how people think and the basis for their behavior TODAY.
:banghead:
- Status
Evolutionary psychology is about how people think and the basis for their behavior TODAY.
:banghead:
X
Xantippe
Guest
Which, some people would say, makes the male situation more dicey.
M
MatthewTrainor
Guest
Your rebuke is well deserved. I am easily frustrated with people who don’t even try to understand what I am saying. You are wise to be skeptical of psychological theories as it is true there is substantially less precision in their conclusions than in the applied sciences. This does not necessarily mean that they have no value in evaluating human behavioral patterns.
X
Xantippe
Guest
Evolutionary psychology is a pretty controversial area.
From the Wikipedia entry on “criticism of evolutionary psychology”:
“A frequent critique of EP is that its hypotheses are difficult or impossible to adequately test, challenging its status as an empirical science.”
"Critics argue that many hypotheses put forward to explain the adaptive nature of human behavioural traits are “just-so stories”; neat adaptive explanations for the evolution of given traits that do not rest on any evidence beyond their own internal logic…Therefore many human behaviours will always fit some hypotheses. Noam Chomsky argued:
"“You find that people cooperate, you say, ‘Yeah, that contributes to their genes’ perpetuating.’ You find that they fight, you say, ‘Sure, that’s obvious, because it means that their genes perpetuate and not somebody else’s. In fact, just about anything you find, you can make up some story for it.”
“One aspect of evolutionary psychology is finding traits that have been shown to be universal in humans. Many critics have pointed out that many traits considered universal at some stage or another by evolutionary psychologists often turn out to be dependent on cultural and particular historical circumstances.”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_evolutionary_psychology
Etc, etc.
M
MatthewTrainor
Guest
Dicey or not my WHOLE POINT before we got on this tangent is that men who are seeking a mate for procreation (which is the biological motivation) will NEVER consider a woman over the age of 55. The same cannot be said of women seeking men for the same reason (e.g. Larry King et al)
S
Sarcelle
Guest
Thank you for your gracious reply. Interactions, especially in this forum wrt controversial topics can be frustrating.
Yes we can agree that psychological theories, though not perfect, do have their merits.
M
MatthewTrainor
Guest
First, you may have missed it, but when I earlier described WIkipedia as “that amazing repository of unquestionably accurate information authored by volunteers who out of the goodness of their hearts write without bias or alternate agenda” I was employing sarcasm.
BTW You missed some of the quotes from the beginning of the article, like:
“This article has multiple issues.”
“This article may be unbalanced towards certain viewpoints. (June 2008)”
“This article needs additional citations for verification. (June 2008)”
“This article possibly contains original research. (July 2011)”
The word “original” in the last one was used to imply “unverified” or “unreliable”
X
Xantippe
Guest
Are you asserting that evolutionary psychology is uncontroversial?
Or are you asserting that evolutionary psychology isn’t widely criticized for being untestable and using “just so” stories?
Otherwise, I don’t see what point you’re making.
M
MatthewTrainor
Guest
Did you just say that men become more of what women want as they get older? Hmmm… I seem to remember someone else pointing out that women were looking for “stable and mature men” and that they should hold out for Mr. Right rather than shacking up with Mr. Right-Now because men gain more of what women want as they get older. That theory was of course immediately rejected.
M
MatthewTrainor
Guest
Why are you rejecting a method of psychological hypothesis that you knew absolutely nothing about before today based solely on an article that is unreliable even by Wikipedia standards?
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Id be careful here.
Xantippe is more than competent when it comes to academia. And while there are issues I agree with her on and issues I don’t, never in my life would I say she couldn’t be more wrong if she tried. That type of attack only shows that you have left the logical and gone to the frustrated emotional.
I would give her the benefit of the doubt that she probably is well versed in the subjects she types about.
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Honestly, I think Xantippe and I have gone rounds before about the reliability of Wiki with her taking your side. So I find it amusing that it is being used. HOWEVER Wiki can be a great source. Rhetoric and criticism aside.
I am watching this whole thing with casual interest.
Trying to watch statistics and numbers people try to explain sexual matters is quite entertaining…
X
Xantippe
Guest
Who says I first heard of evolutionary psychology today? I didn’t say that.
M
MatthewTrainor
Guest
I would posit that in my post I was both logical and frustrated (hence the headbanging) as well as entirely factually accurate. While Xantippe may have the capacity of independently educating herself on a new subject, she clearly didn’t bother in this case because her description of evolutionary psychology was entirely made up. I have very little patience for that sort of dishonesty.
M
MatthewTrainor
Guest
Your fictional description of the theory has nothing to do with reality. If in fact you were acquainted with it prior to today then maybe I was mistaken and you were trying to be wrong.
X
Xantippe
Guest
A few points:
- You were taking the view that women progressively lose attractiveness with age. So, on your view, while men are getting more attractive, women are losing attractiveness. So the longer and more patiently and virtuously a woman waits, the more she’s going to be punished for it. Bummer.
- I don’t want to promise anybody a pony for being “good,” but I think things do get relatively better as one progresses through ones 20s–a lot of people finish up their schooling, get good jobs, get a car, start dealing with debt, start having savings, move out of the parental home, etc… There’s a reason that the average age of first marriage in the US for women is now 27 (and 29 for men)–it genuinely is taking them that long to get on their feet.
- Hence, I’m against panicking in college or in young adulthood generally. College is way too early to panic.
X
Xantippe
Guest
Darn it, I even wrote “evolutionary biology” twice instead of “evolutionary psychology”!
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
You have jumped to highly illogical and ignorant conclusions about her. I can guarantee that she could teach courses in this subject if in fact she does not. It is not new for her.
You are not looking like anyone who is employing logic at all with your assumptions of another poster you know nothing about.
These boards are volatile, but they are volatile for a short time because people attack instead of converse. And you are doing a poor job of getting your point across. I want you to be able to continue to post on the boards so I am correcting your approach.
If you wish to disagree with her, fine, do so with facts and terms that show you understand the subject. I’m actually rooting for you! Xantippe is horribly wrong about many issues. She would probably admit that fact but then disagree with me on what those issues are.
(Xantippe dont read that part)So any time someone can show her that (and It does happen) I am all for it!
M
MatthewTrainor
Guest
Agreed so far.
This is where you misunderstand me. If what the virtuous woman wants is a commitment from a man then ditching her virtue is not the solution. Let’s put guys into three categories,
1 - those who want commitment prior to mating
2 - those who are willing to commit if it is a necessary precondition to mating
3 - those who prefer to look for another mate rather than commit.
(And by commitment I mean a real for-better-or-worse commitment not a Meat Loaf “By the Dashboard Light” kind of commitment.)
As I mentioned here there are many guys who fall into category 2. I would even suggest that most men fall into the first two categories and the rest are just cads that all women should avoid like the plague. By not insisting on marriage first, women cannot clearly distinguish the category 2 guys from those in category 3.
M
MatthewTrainor
Guest
What conclusions are you referring to? Precisely what assumptions are you talking about? She made an objectively false claim about the theory of evolutionary biology and I called her on it. Everything I said here was 100% accurate. Where is the flaw in my logic?
If you are serious about trying to help me with my debate style then you need to be more specific because I have no idea what you are talking about.
- Status