Dating is an Abomination

[Writer]

So do you mean to say each of us married folk were “predestined” to marry who we married? Are you talking the proverbial “soulmate”? One in a billion.

I’m throwing my comments out there just as food for thought. There is a spirtual sense where, I think, it could be convincingly argued that there is a sense in which predestination could be used to describe it–at least sometimes. Remember, though, that predestination does not mean a lack of choice on the part of the person. It simply highlights that our future’s are laid out as (clear as a page from a book) to God. Since marriage should be a lifelong committment, that person, and the resulting relationship, are known to God. To me, at least, this mindset is a little more helpful than the one mentioned earlier…that we might have been happy with any number of people. “What ifs” can be interesting to think about, but it seems better to regard marriage as the lifelong sacramental committment that it is.

 

[chevalier]

Chevalier, I don’t think you meant the term “use them” in the para. above, did you?

I actually did. I was just getting very technical. In a more human way, that would be, “kissing, cuddling and other such are expressions of love and love of such kind that naturally leads to marriage and for that reason they might be okay for people who are in love, but they are not made for fun or for the thrill of it.”

In dating, I think there has to be a mutual attraction. I admit in my younger days, I did date some guys ONCE even if I didn’t feel attracted to them. Usually once was enough for both of us.

Of course there has to be. But it doesn’t have to be acted upon. If I feel physically attracted to a girl, it doesn’t mean I need to kiss her and cuddle with her. I can control myself and I ought to because until I knew I were in love her (or absent any particularly romantic feelings, she and I were heading in the marital direction), it would not be good.

In this day, it seems many young people have pointless romantic relationships. And I agree, these relationships are pointless.

Precisely.

I think agreeing to date others when you are young, even if you do have a “special someone” with whom you feel all those heart stirrings is a healthy attitude.

Many people believe that and I know where it comes from. I appreciate the healthy level-headedness of that stance, as well as the benefits coming from it and the bad results which are averted by it. On the other hand, it does feel rather cold and cruel.

If you happen to drift away from that “special someone”, then to me, that means s/he wasn’t so “special” for YOU. This happens often.

But the specialness of that special someone shouldn’t be tested by some kissing in the tree with some others.

I agree wholeheartedly. .

Great. Don’t get me wrong. I know what the Catechism says and I agree with it, although I might be worried by some possible interpretations. Young people should not find a boyfriend or girlfriend at age 15, shut themselves to all others and behave like they’re engaged or married. However, when they’re “madly in love” or some such, I believe it would be somewhat drastic to “date” others with that kind of state of mind.

In dating, this could mean mutual attraction. There is something in that person that wants further investigation.

Yup. But this doesn’t mean I need to experience what kind of kisser she is, look her in the eye, stroll around hand in hand etc. Such things are good, but only really for people who are actually in love or have some other such form of mutual affection. If people are actually in love with multiple people at a time, that’s a problem (whereas being attracted to a couple of people is rather normal). Problems are best solved in such a way that doesn’t perpetuate them.

I, personally, have never understood how one could have multiple romantic partners. Friends, yes, going to places in a group, okay, but not romantic.

It was a shock for me to learn of it being seen as acceptable.

I agree.

 

[Sailka]

I actually did. I was just getting very technical. In a more human way, that would be, “kissing, cuddling and other such are expressions of love and love of such kind that naturally leads to marriage and for that reason they might be okay for people who are in love, but they are not made for fun or for the thrill of it.”

Of course there has to be. But it doesn’t have to be acted upon. If I feel physically attracted to a girl, it doesn’t mean I need to kiss her and cuddle with her. I can control myself and I ought to because until I knew I were in love her (or absent any particularly romantic feelings, she and I were heading in the marital direction), it would not be good.

Precisely.

Many people believe that and I know where it comes from. I appreciate the healthy level-headedness of that stance, as well as the benefits coming from it and the bad results which are averted by it. On the other hand, it does feel rather cold and cruel.

But the specialness of that special someone shouldn’t be tested by some kissing in the tree with some others.



Great. Don’t get me wrong. I know what the Catechism says and I agree with it, although I might be worried by some possible interpretations. Young people should not find a boyfriend or girlfriend at age 15, shut themselves to all others and behave like they’re engaged or married. However, when they’re “madly in love” or some such, I believe it would be somewhat drastic to “date” others with that kind of state of mind.

Yup. But this doesn’t mean I need to experience what kind of kisser she is, look her in the eye, stroll around hand in hand etc. Such things are good, but only really for people who are actually in love or have some other such form of mutual affection. If people are actually in love with multiple people at a time, that’s a problem (whereas being attracted to a couple of people is rather normal). Problems are best solved in such a way that doesn’t perpetuate them.

It was a shock for me to learn of it being seen as acceptable.

teenage is too young to date seriously, or very romantically.
Stats prove that there is 90% divorce rate if Both are teens at marriage.

                                                                        Because as they become  adults, their attitudes and needs change.          
                                                                                           The ideal weay to date is friendship  only.  So can discover each other's minds, somewhat.  
                                           
                                                                                           But our All business Media culture is all fun, partying, sex, drugs...........Which are great for Business, but destroy great love  potential,   and people so doing

 

[elts1956]

I’m throwing my comments out there just as food for thought. There is a spirtual sense where, I think, it could be convincingly argued that there is a sense in which predestination could be used to describe it–at least sometimes. Remember, though, that predestination does not mean a lack of choice on the part of the person. It simply highlights that our future’s are laid out as (clear as a page from a book) to God. Since marriage should be a lifelong committment, that person, and the resulting relationship, are known to God. To me, at least, this mindset is a little more helpful than the one mentioned earlier…that we might have been happy with any number of people. “What ifs” can be interesting to think about, but it seems better to regard marriage as the lifelong sacramental committment that it is.

Of course it is. I don’t really know about this “one and only” when in the “looking for” stage. Right now, I have the tendency to think that any relationship is workable as long as those in it are willing to work at it in a loving way. When all is said and done, all humans have certain traits that are similar. We all have the same emotions, Love and Fear. We just have to be able to recognize the ones that damage a relationship. I’ll have to think about this some more.

 

[Sailka]

Only if predestination necessitates that which is predestined; & it doesn’t. The BVM was predestined to be the Mother of God - see the Bull of 1854 containing the definition of the Immaculate Conception - but the Divine decree which brought that about (& God’s decrees cannot be thwarted), in no way hindered her freedom. Like just about any other doctrine, predestination can be taken in an erroneous or a true sense.​

                                                                                          The  Catholic Church has always taught against pre-destination.    The BVM was asked if she would be the mother of God, and she answered to God  "thy Will be Done".                 Predistination removes free will, which God gave us.   God may have prior knowledge, but does not pre-destine.   We  and Angels choose.

God’s Providence is universal; nothing created, however great or slight, is outside it. This includes “the most secret motions of [the] heart”, as is clear from the fact that a prayer saying that has been approved by the Church. If anything were exempt from the universality of Providence, it would be impossible to have the unreserved & total abandonment to God which has been practiced by Saints as well as recommended by authors whose writings the Church has approved.

If all that is so, why should it be incredible or unorthodox to think that God’s Providence governs marriage, & that God foreknows (this is perhaps a better word than “predestines”) who will marry whom ? The only question AFAICS is whether or not all choices of spouses are in fact positively intended by Providence. That these choices, positively intended by God or not, are within the scope of Providence, is certain, For nothing escapes Him, great or small, but all things are entirely subject to Him in every respect. Both Testaments witness to the doctrines of God’s Omniscience & Providence, as well as to Predestination. That we may have difficulties with these things, does not make them false or incoherent or unChristian. They are witnessed to in the Bible, & in the Church’s teaching, & in Christian Tradition. And they tell us a lot about God’s Love.

As for the great number of possibilities - why should they not all be within the scope of Providence ? That they may be impossible for our eyes to track, does not make them so to God. So why should it not be the case that people are predestined or foreknown to marry as they do ? A God Who can predestine a particular woman in a particular time & place to be a mother, can surely with equal ease predestine a few thousand million particular individuals to marry one another.

 

[LJN21]

teenage is too young to date seriously, or very romantically.
Stats prove that there is 90% divorce rate if Both are teens at marriage.

I dunno, I think that depends on why they are getting married in their teenaged years. I was 18 and my husband was 19 when we got married 9 years ago - we’ve been together over 10. I love braking statistics

That said, We knew the Teaching of the Church on marriage, (primary purpose of marriage is to raise children and get each other to heaven), we knew for the most part what we were getting in too (if any one really knows 100%), at this point in our lives I’d say growing up together has made us stronger.

Honestly, what scares me the most is the number of people married 25, 30 years and end up divorced.

 

[Sailka]

I dunno, I think that depends on why they are getting married in their teenaged years. I was 18 and my husband was 19 when we got married 9 years ago - we’ve been together over 10. I love braking statistics

That said, We knew the Teaching of the Church on marriage, (primary purpose of marriage is to raise children and get each other to heaven), we knew for the most part what we were getting in too (if any one really knows 100%), at this point in our lives I’d say growing up together has made us stronger.

Honestly, what scares me the most is the number of people married 25, 30 years and end up divorced.

                                                                                           Congratulations!  You are so Blessed!   Perhaps our Lord was big part of  your dating?  Obviously was in your Deciding to Marry!    Stats also prove that   Real Catholic   lving the Faith couples have smallest divorce rates > 5%.

/LIST]
And it is thought that the ME ME ME selfishness marketing of Secularism is the biggest Problem in staying together families. God Bless both of you!

 

[elts1956]

I actually did. I was just getting very technical. In a more human way, that would be, “kissing, cuddling and other such are expressions of love and love of such kind that naturally leads to marriage and for that reason they might be okay for people who are in love, but they are not made for fun or for the thrill of it.”

Of course there has to be. But it doesn’t have to be acted upon. If I feel physically attracted to a girl, it doesn’t mean I need to kiss her and cuddle with her. I can control myself and I ought to because until I knew I were in love her (or absent any particularly romantic feelings, she and I were heading in the marital direction), it would not be good.

Precisely.

Many people believe that and I know where it comes from. I appreciate the healthy level-headedness of that stance, as well as the benefits coming from it and the bad results which are averted by it. On the other hand, it does feel rather cold and cruel.

But the specialness of that special someone shouldn’t be tested by some kissing in the tree with some others.



Great. Don’t get me wrong. I know what the Catechism says and I agree with it, although I might be worried by some possible interpretations. Young people should not find a boyfriend or girlfriend at age 15, shut themselves to all others and behave like they’re engaged or married. However, when they’re “madly in love” or some such, I believe it would be somewhat drastic to “date” others with that kind of state of mind.

Yup. But this doesn’t mean I need to experience what kind of kisser she is, look her in the eye, stroll around hand in hand etc. Such things are good, but only really for people who are actually in love or have some other such form of mutual affection. If people are actually in love with multiple people at a time, that’s a problem (whereas being attracted to a couple of people is rather normal). Problems are best solved in such a way that doesn’t perpetuate them.

It was a shock for me to learn of it being seen as acceptable.

/QUOE

Hello. Thanks for your response. I hope you know that the definition of “attraction” for the oposite sex is somewhat different between male and female, don"t you? At least in the old days there was a difference. When I was “attracted” to a guy, it meant I felt good just being around him, hanging out and doing things together. There may have been some deeper undercurrant of attraction that at that time I didn’t analyze. But my attraction to the fellow didn’t include hugging and kissing etc. But then the attitudes have changed now and I fear not for the better. Both males and females of the dating age, in the present time, have less physical control. They think if it is enjoyable then it is okay to “experiement”. I think that the fellows who date now who think attraction is only a physical thing are in the majority and those who respect themselves and the girl they care for are few and far in between. So it is refreshing to see posts such as you write. Keep up the good work.

 

[chevalier]

teenage is too young to date seriously, or very romantically.

• Stats prove that there is 90% divorce rate if Both are teens at marriage.

Because as they become adults, their attitudes and needs change.

• The ideal weay to date is friendship only. So can discover each other’s minds, somewhat.

But our All business Media culture is all fun, partying, sex, drugs…Which are great for Business, but destroy great love potential, and people so doing

Possibly, but on the other hand, teenagers do fall in love. They shouldn’t go too far, but it would be cruel and cold to require them to diversify the pool when they are in such a state.

 

[chevalier]

Hello. Thanks for your response. I hope you know that the definition of “attraction” for the oposite sex is somewhat different between male and female, don"t you? At least in the old days there was a difference. When I was “attracted” to a guy, it meant I felt good just being around him, hanging out and doing things together.

Well, that would go in a friendship as well. That kind of attraction may even happen in relationships where anything romantic is unlikely. Many of my friends and acquaintances have been quite strongly attracted to me that way without being attracted in any way romantic or physical.

But my attraction to the fellow didn’t include hugging and kissing etc.

Not judging that, or attraction itself. Merely saying that there shouldn’t be an automatic chain between attraction and those things (i.e. hugging, kissing, sending romantic letters etc). These are those things which make a relationship more serious and exclusive in my view. Or rather the external signs of one - without prejudice to the fact that the markings themselves are rather categorical and only debatable to a little extent.

But then the attitudes have changed now and I fear not for the better. Both males and females of the dating age, in the present time, have less physical control. They think if it is enjoyable then it is okay to “experiement”.

I’ve been there, done that. I’m not a saint. I shouldn’t come down too hard on it. However, I can’t really accept it as viable, even if I don’t come down too hard on it.

I think that the fellows who date now who think attraction is only a physical thing are in the majority and those who respect themselves and the girl they care for are few and far in between.

Well, what is physical attraction - attraction which is inspired by physical appearance or attraction which is felt physically? At any rate, what attraction I mean is the one that doesn’t normally happen between siblings or within the same gender, while it isn’t really a merely aesthetic delight, either.

So it is refreshing to see posts such as you write. Keep up the good work.

Thank you.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Hang on - while prayer is an important PART of discerning any vocation, and hasn’t and never will be entirely replaced by dating (as I’m sure any preist would tell you), there’s no vocation, including marriage, that you’d be expected to jump into with absolutely no experience or training of any kind.

Do priests just jump straight into Holy Orders after a simple period of prayer and with no other preparation? Of course not, they go through rigorous practical and theoretical training, often before as well as during seminary, for many years, involving plenty of hands-on experience with or around the duties they will be expected to do as priests, before they receive the sacrament of Holy Orders.

Likewise nuns and monks - they don’t just pray, they spend at least a few years going through postulancy and/or novitiate before they get to those final vows.

Even as a secular Franciscan I go through a year and a half of learning and training as well as prayer before I am professed as a member.

And as part of my future (please God) profession as a lawyer, I’ve not only studied but also done a requisiste amount of work experience in legal offices, and will be required to do more.

Marriage is a lifetime commitment like any vocation. Dating is part of your training and work experience to make sure you’re willing and prepared for that commitment. It’s when you combine the preparation AND the prayer - when you ora (pray) ET labora (AND work) as St Benedict said - that you have the best results.

Be careful! It almost sounds as though you are implying that one should co-habitate before marriage to see if marriage to a certain person is the right thing to do.
I know that you don’t mean that…which is why I am saying “be careful.”
In my younger years, I would have taken the implication and run with it…though I would not have been justified.
Also, dating in this day and age means participating in sexual behavior after the dinner and movie. It is implied and expected by both parties…no longer just the male.
Courtship is much different. It is almost always conducted with a chaperone, even though conversations can be private. The chaperone does not always have to be in the same room…but always within eyesight. And much of it is done in a family setting. That not only gives the entire family the chance to get to know the other person, it takes away any sense of peer pressure that may be put on by either party for innappropriate behavior.
Also, most people in todays society date just to go out and have a good time. People do not date just for the purpose of finding a spouse. As a matter of fact, that is the easiest way to end a date. Mention marriage and the other party is sure to find the nearest bathroom window to climb out of.

Courtship, in my opinion, when discerning marriage, is the best way to go.

 

[Sailka]

Be careful! It almost sounds as though you are implying that one should co-habitate before marriage to see if marriage to a certain person is the right thing to do.
I know that you don’t mean that…which is why I am saying “be careful.”
In my younger years, I would have taken the implication and run with it…though I would not have been justified.
Also, dating in this day and age means participating in sexual behavior after the dinner and movie. It is implied and expected by both parties…no longer just the male.
Courtship is much different. It is almost always conducted with a chaperone, even though conversations can be private. The chaperone does not always have to be in the same room…but always within eyesight. And much of it is done in a family setting. That not only gives the entire family the chance to get to know the other person, it takes away any sense of peer pressure that may be put on by either party for innappropriate behavior.
Also, most people in todays society date just to go out and have a good time. People do not date just for the purpose of finding a spouse. As a matter of fact, that is the easiest way to end a date. Mention marriage and the other party is sure to find the nearest bathroom window to climb out of.

Courtship, in my opinion, when discerning marriage, is the best way to go.

                                                                                                                                                                                          A very preciselly brilliant  statement. But can be done unshaperoned, in my experience, if done as best friends  only,  to exchange ideas, attitudes. A walk in the Park, etc, are excellent way to see what things the  friend thinks, feels.   Kissing is going too far almost, unless the friend has very ideal mind/essence of purity also.                                                                               
                                                                                           Dating  friendship only is Ideal  way to get to know another.  And is Best way to Find the One, because  it is the  Mind/Soul/Essence/attitudes  one Marries.   Only  way tio discover is as Friends, avoiding the Physical draw.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

God gave us brains to learn with and expects us to use them to learn, as much as possible, to prepare us for whatever future he has planned for us, whether is is in terms of marriage, parenthood, religious life or Holy Orders or else our secular careers or secular studies.

How do you practice for parenthood? God is totally involved(as He is the Creator)in the pro creation process. He doesn’t give the wonderful gift of parenthood just to those who have read the books(which are of not much use anyway as each child and family and situation is unique). And many women become pregnant who have never babysat, or have no younger siblings.
Men who are in the seminary to become priests have already answered the call from God for this vocation. The learning comes after God’s proposal of marriage has been answered. There were no other god’s to try out and experiment with before in order to say that they had the experience to know that this was the right one. Quite simply, God called, and the man/guy/boy responded with a resounding YES.
How many careers does one have to experiment with before one realizes that he likes to work in a particular environment?
Your argument is not logical.
You seem to be trying to justify dating around the same way others justify sleeping around or cohabitating with a person before marriage.
Those experiences which are sinful do nothing to help you make a decision on who you will marry. I take that back. You have the experience of knowing sin, and turning away from it. But I firmly stand on the fact that one can meet in a courtship with a person and marry that same person and be in a loving, fullfilling, and spiritual marriage till death do them part. One does not have to experience many other options before being happy with one.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Do you honestly think you can tell if someone is a potential wife-beater, for example, from how they behave in a public group situation? In CHURCH? At WORK? Of course they’re not going to get in a punch up with the boss or the priest.

How about whether they’re a drug user? Or likely to be chronically unfaithful? Why would anyone at church or work know that sort of stuff about them? Why should even their best friends know? Those are the sort of things that only spending one-on-one time with them can possibly give you clues to.

Do you honestly believe they will allow a person that they are dating to know these things about them? One would have to live with a person or be in a very physically and emotionally intimate relationship to know these things. You yourself even stated that even a best friend might not know these things.

Just for the sake of argument, I am stating that one can be friends with many people of the opposite sex. That does not imply dating. And friends spend time with each other…but not romantically. One can easily figure out which of these friends could be possibilities as a spouse.

 

[elts1956]

God gave us brains to learn with and expects us to use them to learn, as much as possible, to prepare us for whatever future he has planned for us, whether is is in terms of marriage, parenthood, religious life or Holy Orders or else our secular careers or secular studies.

How do you practice for parenthood? God is totally involved(as He is the Creator)in the pro creation process. He doesn’t give the wonderful gift of parenthood just to those who have read the books(which are of not much use anyway as each child and family and situation is unique). And many women become pregnant who have never babysat, or have no younger siblings.
Men who are in the seminary to become priests have already answered the call from God for this vocation. The learning comes after God’s proposal of marriage has been answered. There were no other god’s to try out and experiment with before in order to say that they had the experience to know that this was the right one. Quite simply, God called, and the man/guy/boy responded with a resounding YES.
How many careers does one have to experiment with before one realizes that he likes to work in a particular environment?
Your argument is not logical.
You seem to be trying to justify dating around the same way others justify sleeping around or cohabitating with a person before marriage.
Those experiences which are sinful do nothing to help you make a decision on who you will marry. I take that back. You have the experience of knowing sin, and turning away from it. But I firmly stand on the fact that one can meet in a courtship with a person and marry that same person and be in a loving, fullfilling, and spiritual marriage till death do them part. One does not have to experience many other options before being happy with one.

I think not dating more than one person would depend upon the ages of the daters. If of marriagble age, then yes, I could support someone dating a “one and only” dating partner. This is not to say that sometimes, for some mysterious quirk of “what is to be” one just knows at a very young age who would be a good partner for life. But again, it would depend on the age of the man and woman to involve dating only one person. I think being about 80 would do it. Just kidding.

Sorry, I forgot your statement about courtship. Yes, I agree a courting relationship would be great. Unfortunately we do not have duennas in the U.S. So again it would depend upon the age.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Quote from #127.
Hello. Thanks for your response. I hope you know that the definition of “attraction” for the oposite sex is somewhat different between male and female, don"t you? At least in the old days there was a difference. When I was “attracted” to a guy, it meant I felt good just being around him, hanging out and doing things together. There may have been some deeper undercurrant of attraction that at that time I didn’t analyze. But my attraction to the fellow didn’t include hugging and kissing etc. But then the attitudes have changed now and I fear not for the better. Both males and females of the dating age, in the present time, have less physical control. They think if it is enjoyable then it is okay to “experiement”. I think that the fellows who date now who think attraction is only a physical thing are in the majority and those who respect themselves and the girl they care for are few and far in between. So it is refreshing to see posts such as you write. Keep up the good work."end quote

I must say that you seem to be talking about the male gender of our species. I argue that it is the female gender every bit as much as the male gender now a days.
I have met many girls/women who are totally put off with a guy who doesn’t want to have sex with her. She treats him everybit as horribly as the guys used to treat the girls when they wouldn’t give in.
In the same sense, I have met many guys who feel very pressured by females to have sex with them. The guys are the ones having to say “no”.
Does that mean the tables have turned? No. I believe that they have become equal in deviation. There are, however, guys and girls on the right side of the fence. To them I say, I wish there had been more people like you in my circle of friends when I was growing up. Maybe I would have been more morally correct than politically correct.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Quote by #128
"Possibly, but on the other hand, teenagers do fall in love. They shouldn’t go too far, but it would be cruel and cold to require them to diversify the pool when they are in such a state."end quote

I have a 15 year old daughter who is genuinly “in Love” with her best friend who happens to be a guy. They are aware of the feelings of the other person, and their feelings for each other are the same, in as much as two peoples feelings are exactly the same.
My daughter and her friend, being Christian, are much more aware of their need to “stand at a distance” from each other. It is rare that they are in a position to call spending time with each other a “date”. They chose to spend time together, but do it mostly in a family setting. True, they take walks alone, and sometimes hang out at the bookstore or coffee shop alone. But they won’t be driving around alone. They spend time in a group setting. It helps them to keep things in perspective.
Actually, that is what they were doing. When his parents found out that their son’s feelings for my daughter had gotten romantic, they did all that they could to keep them totally apart. They have succeeded wonderfully.
I believe that their actions were totally wrong. My daughter and their son were/are still best friends. They talked with each other about important things. They trusted each other with intimate details of their lives…things they wanted no one else to know. They depended on the moral support given by each other.
His parents let him call her about once a month now for a five minute conversation. She knows from people that he goes to school with that he is feeling very alone and frustrated. That he still cares and loves her. He sneaks in an email to her when he can.
His parents were/are totally wrong. The way they found out about the change in feelings of their son and my daughter was that they noticed how much more careful the kids were being in the things that they wanted to do. They wanted to do NOTHING which could possibly lead them into an occasion of sin.
In other words, they were doing what we, as parents, would have done. They didn’t wait for our decisions. They wanted to protect themselves from any chance of doing wrong even before we realized that we as parents needed to take it in hand.
Our kids are CHRISTIANS who want to stay pure. They love each other, which means they are more than willing to sacrifice their own base needs for the needs of the other person.

 

[chevalier]

I think not dating more than one person would depend upon the ages of the daters. If of marriagble age, then yes, I could support someone dating a “one and only” dating partner. This is not to say that sometimes, for some mysterious quirk of “what is to be” one just knows at a very young age who would be a good partner for life. But again, it would depend on the age of the man and woman to involve dating only one person. I think being about 80 would do it. Just kidding.

While being exclusive make difference, it also makes difference what one does during those dates. Going to a coffee or a dance with more than one person may be a very healthy motion, but having multiple romantic relationships is not fine.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

I agree. I’m reading this thread thinking the OP believes you just walk up to someone and say "Hey do you think Ave Maria is a beautiful song? How about saying the Hail Mary? Guy says “yes to both” OP says “Cool! Let’s get married!!!”

As I said in my original post, it’s great to say “hey this is what I want” and then you get it, and it’s nice, but it’s not it You find things out as you get to know someone on a more intimate level. I can tell you in my past dating experiences that: You find out that yes he really is nice to his mom, but my word does he need to cut the cord! or he says yes he is in love with you, but that doesn’t really mean that he isn’t also sleeping with 3 other girls behind your back. Or, he’s a little immature, or that when you can pull him away from playing Quake he’s a good boyfriend, or he isn’t still in love with his ex girlfriend even though he totally is, or he says he wants to marry you and wants you to drop out of college and get a job and support him and have babies right away even though he has a minimum wage part time job, no ambition and no education past high school, and you just turned 19 he also doesn’t want you to hang out with any of your friends anymore because they are all bad influences especially the two guy friends you’ve had that are brothers to you, he also would really like it if you called him all the time and he buys you a pager so that he can’t contact you 24 hours a day and find out what you’re doing. And when you end it with him, he shows up on your doorstep 200 miles away with a knife in his hands threatening to kill you and himself if you don’t get back together with him. (he was the worst one) Or there was the guy who had the wondering eye, or the guy who was nice enough but an angry drunk and always stoned, or the guy who really believed a womans place was to be behind a stove barefoot and pregnant and SILENT, or the guy who was always so lost in studying to be a doctor that you never felt like you ranked in the top 25 of his priorities. Or the guy who decided to tell you he had genital warts and thought you wouldn’t mind he just wanted to let you know for the future. Amongst others and there were others. My God were there others People hide things. They hide them well. My fiance and I are still learning things about each other and we’ve been together going on 5 years. He’s learned I have red hair for a reason. I have a temper, it takes a lot to get me angry but when Im livid, clear out, he’s learned I’m a sucker for a sob story, that I’m neurotic and have moments where I’m needy and moments where if I even think you’re trying to take my independence I will light you up.

When he proposed to me, my dad’s direct quote was finally you found a nice guy who will put up with your S**T! His mom said the same thing. You have to FIND the right person, they don’t just drop in your lap after a couple of laps around the rosary.

I’m glad I dated those guys. Because a) it makes me happy that I’m NOT with those guys and grateful for what I do have and B) I have juicy stories to tell my grandchildren about how I was a hussy and a trollop in my youth.

One very important question…which matters not one wit if you answer or not. The answer will, however, make all of the difference in the world.
Were you, or are you, sexually active with either your fiance or any of the others that you dated?
I have a hard time believing, but I will be most happy to, if you have remained pure and chaste after 5 years or so of Dating. You would be a much stronger person than I have ever been able to be.

And that is a strong point in the dating versus courting argument. The level of intimacy with someone/anyone who is not even going to be considered spouse material.

It is natural. People who are attracted to each other start off by spending time together. Then the time becomes more intimate and isolated. And then they are placing themselves in an occasion of sin…and then they are sinning. It happens so easily. We must protect ourselves from entering into the occasion of sin. Dating, in so many circumstances…even those that start out innocently enough…lead directly into sin.

And then, when the girl finds out she is pregnant, she also finds out that the person she sinned with is not someone she wants to marry. Then there are at least 3 people who will forever have to deal with the consequences of that “date”.

As I have said, hanging out in friendship is fine. When it goes beyond friendship stronger and more certain safety procedures need to be put into place.
Many young men and women aren’t able to do the customary courtship procedure. Many live far away from family. But you can still be in a courtship simply by becoming friends and knowing a guy as a good friend before you consider anything more with him. Then, if you know him enough to consider him as a prospective husband, and if he feels the same way…you can start a courtship. Courtship meaning that you will do everything to ensure that the relationship and time that you will spend together will be TOTALLY chaste.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

                                                                                                                                                                                          A very preciselly brilliant  statement. But can be done unshaperoned, in my experience, if done as best friends  only,  to exchange ideas, attitudes. A walk in the Park, etc, are excellent way to see what things the  friend thinks, feels.   Kissing is going too far almost, unless the friend has very ideal mind/essence of purity also.                                                                               
                                                                                           Dating  friendship only is Ideal  way to get to know another.  And is Best way to Find the One, because  it is the  Mind/Soul/Essence/attitudes  one Marries.   Only  way tio discover is as Friends, avoiding the Physical draw.

My point emphatically!!!