Dating is an Abomination

[Sailka]

Possibly, but on the other hand, teenagers do fall in love. They shouldn’t go too far, but it would be cruel and cold to require them to diversify the pool when they are in such a state.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        But teen love is much more infatuation, not true love. That is why Physical part should be avoided. If not, each will be less capable of true love later, with the  Right one.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        But teen love is much more infatuation, not true love. That is why Physical part should be avoided. If not, each will be less capable of true love later, with the  Right one.

And I, in my divorced state, am a perfect example of that statement. True love was never to be experienced.

 

[Sailka]

Quote by #128
"Possibly, but on the other hand, teenagers do fall in love. They shouldn’t go too far, but it would be cruel and cold to require them to diversify the pool when they are in such a state."end quote

I have a 15 year old daughter who is genuinly “in Love” with her best friend who happens to be a guy. They are aware of the feelings of the other person, and their feelings for each other are the same, in as much as two peoples feelings are exactly the same.
My daughter and her friend, being Christian, are much more aware of their need to “stand at a distance” from each other. It is rare that they are in a position to call spending time with each other a “date”. They chose to spend time together, but do it mostly in a family setting. True, they take walks alone, and sometimes hang out at the bookstore or coffee shop alone. But they won’t be driving around alone. They spend time in a group setting. It helps them to keep things in perspective.
Actually, that is what they were doing. When his parents found out that their son’s feelings for my daughter had gotten romantic, they did all that they could to keep them totally apart. They have succeeded wonderfully.
I believe that their actions were totally wrong. My daughter and their son were/are still best friends. They talked with each other about important things. They trusted each other with intimate details of their lives…things they wanted no one else to know. They depended on the moral support given by each other.
His parents let him call her about once a month now for a five minute conversation. She knows from people that he goes to school with that he is feeling very alone and frustrated. That he still cares and loves her. He sneaks in an email to her when he can.
His parents were/are totally wrong. The way they found out about the change in feelings of their son and my daughter was that they noticed how much more careful the kids were being in the things that they wanted to do. They wanted to do NOTHING which could possibly lead them into an occasion of sin.
In other words, they were doing what we, as parents, would have done. They didn’t wait for our decisions. They wanted to protect themselves from any chance of doing wrong even before we realized that we as parents needed to take it in hand.
Our kids are CHRISTIANS who want to stay pure. They love each other, which means they are more than willing to sacrifice their own base needs for the needs of the other person.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Beautiful story of great maturity, by both.  The parents of  the young man are radically too restrictive.   The kids should be allowed to communicate  more.  
                                                                                                                                                                                          The difficulty with 'teen love'  again is that they very rarely survive. The divorece rate when two teens marry is 90%, because their attitudes and ways of thinking change with age.                     God Bless them, and PRAY  for "The spouse"  of each  in the future. Heard  of that    very successful type prayer?  :amen:

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

                                                                                                                                                                                          Beautiful story of great maturity, by both.  The parents of  the young man are radically too restrictive.   The kids should be allowed to communicate  more.  
                                                                                                                                                                                          The difficulty with 'teen love'  again is that they very rarely survive. The divorece rate when two teens marry is 90%, because their attitudes and ways of thinking change with age.                     God Bless them, and PRAY  for "The spouse"  of each  in the future. Heard  of that    very successful type prayer?  :amen:

No. I haven’t heard of the prayer. My plan is for my daughter to be a nun, and all three of my sons to be priests. Wouldn’t that be so AWESOME!?!?!?!?!?! Just in case my plans aren’t God’s plans, would you please share the prayer you were speaking of with me?

God bless you all, and good-night.

 

[Sailka]

No. I haven’t heard of the prayer. My plan is for my daughter to be a nun, and all three of my sons to be priests. Wouldn’t that be so AWESOME!?!?!?!?!?! Just in case my plans aren’t God’s plans, would you please share the prayer you were speaking of with me?

God bless you all, and good-night.

                                                                                                                                                                                          What a beautiful hope. I certainly shall pray for their   FUTURE,  which may be  the ideal way.

 

[chevalier]

My daughter and her friend, being Christian, are much more aware of their need to “stand at a distance” from each other. It is rare that they are in a position to call spending time with each other a “date”. They chose to spend time together, but do it mostly in a family setting.

Great. One of my issues with dating is that it’s so artificial and it uses such big and transparent frames. Spending time together in more simple ways is way better.

Actually, that is what they were doing. When his parents found out that their son’s feelings for my daughter had gotten romantic, they did all that they could to keep them totally apart. They have succeeded wonderfully.

Well, sometimes people have issues and one can do little about that. I generally choose to avoid such problems by avoiding such people. This doesn’t sound very charitable, I know, but I prefer to reduce exposure.

I believe that their actions were totally wrong. My daughter and their son were/are still best friends. They talked with each other about important things. They trusted each other with intimate details of their lives…things they wanted no one else to know. They depended on the moral support given by each other.

Well, let’s hope it won’t move into the past tense.

His parents let him call her about once a month now for a five minute conversation. She knows from people that he goes to school with that he is feeling very alone and frustrated. That he still cares and loves her. He sneaks in an email to her when he can.

I’d be doing the same. As for the parents, I don’t want to berate them, but I disagree with the view that parents have the right to take any action they want, no matter how bizarre it looks to other people. Parents are not owners.

Also, some of those stringent rules might be more about control and domination than about purity.

• But teen love is much more infatuation, not true love. That is why Physical part should be avoided. If not, each will be less capable of true love later, with the Right one.

I totally agree with you. The physical part should be avoided in exclusive relationships before marriage (note that I’m not talking about an innocent peck or a healthy hug, we aren’t puritans) and has no place in casual dating around.

 

[Sailka]

And I, in my divorced state, am a perfect example of that statement. True love was never to be experienced.

                                                                                                                                                                                          God Bless you for sharing your life experience results with us!

 

[Sailka]

No. I haven’t heard of the prayer. My plan is for my daughter to be a nun, and all three of my sons to be priests. Wouldn’t that be so AWESOME!?!?!?!?!?! Just in case my plans aren’t God’s plans, would you please share the prayer you were speaking of with me?

God bless you all, and good-night.

                                                                                                                                                                                          The famed prayer by unmarrieds is *  for the health and well-being of the  future spouse *

. It excludes the wish list of qualities of future spouse we wish to give God, Who is not Santa Clause.
I learned of this prayer from a middleaged black lady, while taking her and 11 year old daughter, handicapped mentally (always smiling) and big burn marks from boiling water thrown at her years ago, to a famed children’s hospital. She then explained of the Ideal husband she now has, midlife: a Middle aged black gentleman who she has never had any disagreement with, until now, when he Ordered her to see a Doctor about the Very severe High Blood pressure that was just discovered. She had refured to take time off from work she has been doing ‘since age 16’, now at a Cleaners.

                                                                                                                                                                                          She had prayed that prayer for years, having learned it from Church Friend.  Catholics, some with ideal families  they thought they would never have, have said they also found their 'ideal' spouse by praying that prayer. 
                             
                                                                                                                                                                                          Your wonderful sharing your hopes  dreams for your children  may be reason to alter that working prayer to *  for each one's future * not just future spouse, (which would be The Lord, now that am thnking).  Requires more thinking: **** the original prayer is appropriate if one realizes that Catholic Clergy  become espoused to The Lord.
    :byzsoc:   :crossrc:                                                  :amen:

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Quote from Chevelier "I’d be doing the same. As for the parents, I don’t want to berate them, but I disagree with the view that parents have the right to take any action they want, no matter how bizarre it looks to other people. Parents are not owners.

Also, some of those stringent rules might be more about control and domination than about purity."end quote

I could understand, agree and even accept their decision if there son was involved in anything that is dangerous for him on any level. If there was even the slightest chance that he would be drinking, using drugs, participating in any sort of promiscuous behaviou. But these kids and their friends are totally against those things. They are all for Jesus. They not only talk the talk, they walk the walk. They are an inspiration to many…and they make the parents long to go back to those days when they were so free that they could get together any time they wanted to in order to be in a prayer meeting. My daughter goes to three prayer meetings a week. Why? Because she loves to praise the Lord, and she loves to be around people who are living their lives centered on Jesus in the Eucharist. This young man’s parents were all for that. They spent months promoting it…until feelings became romantic. If they paid attention to who their son is, and who my daughter is, and what they are about, they would not try to destroy the friendship between their son and my daughter. My daughter is not the first person they have, for no apparent reason, decided that their son could not associate with. It seems that anytime this boy starts to get close to someone on a personal level, his parents put a stop to all communication. As long as they think it is all just fun and games, with nothing personal, they are fine with it. When the conversations become real, they put on the brakes. This boy is an awesome guy. And he is 15. His parents do not understand the damage that they are doing to him, nor the actions he will take to get away from them for good when he is of legal age…which in Louisiana is 17. They are not allowing him to spend time with the Church youth groups, or with anyone involved in them. And if they had left the Catholic Church, still I could understand. But they haven’t. They are going along in their “I’m a good Catholic” attitude, but are taking everything about the spiritual part of being Catholic totally out of their son’s life.
Controlling? I would call it abuse. I do call it abuse. This situation needs prayer. We are praying.

 

[Sailka]

Quote from Chevelier "I’d be doing the same. As for the parents, I don’t want to berate them, but I disagree with the view that parents have the right to take any action they want, no matter how bizarre it looks to other people. Parents are not owners.

Also, some of those stringent rules might be more about control and domination than about purity."end quote

I could understand, agree and even accept their decision if there son was involved in anything that is dangerous for him on any level. If there was even the slightest chance that he would be drinking, using drugs, participating in any sort of promiscuous behaviou. But these kids and their friends are totally against those things. They are all for Jesus. They not only talk the talk, they walk the walk. They are an inspiration to many…and they make the parents long to go back to those days when they were so free that they could get together any time they wanted to in order to be in a prayer meeting. My daughter goes to three prayer meetings a week. Why? Because she loves to praise the Lord, and she loves to be around people who are living their lives centered on Jesus in the Eucharist. This young man’s parents were all for that. They spent months promoting it…until feelings became romantic. If they paid attention to who their son is, and who my daughter is, and what they are about, they would not try to destroy the friendship between their son and my daughter. My daughter is not the first person they have, for no apparent reason, decided that their son could not associate with. It seems that anytime this boy starts to get close to someone on a personal level, his parents put a stop to all communication. As long as they think it is all just fun and games, with nothing personal, they are fine with it. When the conversations become real, they put on the brakes. This boy is an awesome guy. And he is 15. His parents do not understand the damage that they are doing to him, nor the actions he will take to get away from them for good when he is of legal age…which in Louisiana is 17. They are not allowing him to spend time with the Church youth groups, or with anyone involved in them. And if they had left the Catholic Church, still I could understand. But they haven’t. They are going along in their “I’m a good Catholic” attitude, but are taking everything about the spiritual part of being Catholic totally out of their son’s life.
Controlling? I would call it abuse. I do call it abuse. This situation needs prayer. We are praying.

                                                                                           It is clear  they are gravelly damaging his development/growth into adulthood  by Controlling him severelly  in  Their (Not the Lord  or Church's) opinions.   Pray for   every  young person in both families, for Their future spouse to be mature and well.  Hopefully, some of them will espouse to the most productive, happy life > as Nun/Sister/Priest/Brother.

 

[elts1956]

Quote from #127.
Hello. Thanks for your response. I hope you know that the definition of “attraction” for the oposite sex is somewhat different between male and female, don"t you? At least in the old days there was a difference. When I was “attracted” to a guy, it meant I felt good just being around him, hanging out and doing things together. There may have been some deeper undercurrant of attraction that at that time I didn’t analyze. But my attraction to the fellow didn’t include hugging and kissing etc. But then the attitudes have changed now and I fear not for the better. Both males and females of the dating age, in the present time, have less physical control. They think if it is enjoyable then it is okay to “experiement”. I think that the fellows who date now who think attraction is only a physical thing are in the majority and those who respect themselves and the girl they care for are few and far in between. So it is refreshing to see posts such as you write. Keep up the good work."end quote

I must say that you seem to be talking about the male gender of our species. I argue that it is the female gender every bit as much as the male gender now a days.
I have met many girls/women who are totally put off with a guy who doesn’t want to have sex with her. She treats him everybit as horribly as the guys used to treat the girls when they wouldn’t give in.
In the same sense, I have met many guys who feel very pressured by females to have sex with them. The guys are the ones having to say “no”.
Does that mean the tables have turned? No. I believe that they have become equal in deviation. There are, however, guys and girls on the right side of the fence. To them I say, I wish there had been more people like you in my circle of friends when I was growing up. Maybe I would have been more morally correct than politically correct.

Allo. Guess I was just talking about the guys. You are right, most of the girls of today are just as deviated in their attitudes about chastity as are most of the males. It is just THE THING to do these days. Why not, we now have the birth control pill given to underage girls and that gives them the idea it is okay to push the bar as long as one doesn’t get preggies. I am so happy I was a teen in the fifties and although we may have been sexually repressed , I think I would rather have that than the promiscuity I see these days.

 

[elts1956]

While being exclusive make difference, it also makes difference what one does during those dates. Going to a coffee or a dance with more than one person may be a very healthy motion, but having multiple romantic relationships is not fine.

I totally agree.

 

[elts1956]

While being exclusive make difference, it also makes difference what one does during those dates. Going to a coffee or a dance with more than one person may be a very healthy motion, but having multiple romantic relationships is not fine.

Quote by #128
"Possibly, but on the other hand, teenagers do fall in love. They shouldn’t go too far, but it would be cruel and cold to require them to diversify the pool when they are in such a state."end quote

I have a 15 year old daughter who is genuinly “in Love” with her best friend who happens to be a guy. They are aware of the feelings of the other person, and their feelings for each other are the same, in as much as two peoples feelings are exactly the same.
My daughter and her friend, being Christian, are much more aware of their need to “stand at a distance” from each other. It is rare that they are in a position to call spending time with each other a “date”. They chose to spend time together, but do it mostly in a family setting. True, they take walks alone, and sometimes hang out at the bookstore or coffee shop alone. But they won’t be driving around alone. They spend time in a group setting. It helps them to keep things in perspective.
Actually, that is what they were doing. When his parents found out that their son’s feelings for my daughter had gotten romantic, they did all that they could to keep them totally apart. They have succeeded wonderfully.
I believe that their actions were totally wrong. My daughter and their son were/are still best friends. They talked with each other about important things. They trusted each other with intimate details of their lives…things they wanted no one else to know. They depended on the moral support given by each other.
His parents let him call her about once a month now for a five minute conversation. She knows from people that he goes to school with that he is feeling very alone and frustrated. That he still cares and loves her. He sneaks in an email to her when he can.
His parents were/are totally wrong. The way they found out about the change in feelings of their son and my daughter was that they noticed how much more careful the kids were being in the things that they wanted to do. They wanted to do NOTHING which could possibly lead them into an occasion of sin.
In other words, they were doing what we, as parents, would have done. They didn’t wait for our decisions. They wanted to protect themselves from any chance of doing wrong even before we realized that we as parents needed to take it in hand.
Our kids are CHRISTIANS who want to stay pure. They love each other, which means they are more than willing to sacrifice their own base needs for the needs of the other person.

That is really a shame. I hope the fellow’s parents do realize what a treasure of a son they have. And you DO CERTAINLY have a treasure of a daughter.

 

[Geremia]

Another thing is that dating is a modern invention. It has as its goal finding the most compatible partner; courtship is finding that person who God has willed one to marry. Why should we Catholics date when so many billions of Catholics in the past never did? Marriage ultimately comes down to a decision based on faith, not how well you “played the field,” searching for evidence to justify marrying a particular person.

 

[srlucado]

Another thing is that dating is a modern invention. It has as its goal finding the most compatible partner; courtship is finding that person who God has willed one to marry. Why should we Catholics date when so many billions of Catholics in the past never did? Marriage ultimately comes down to a decision based on faith, not how well you “played the field,” searching for evidence to justify marrying a particular person.

A lot of Catholics never took antibiotics, either, but I hope you’ll forgive me if I choose not to die from an easily-cured infection.

How about the opinion that dating can be fun? Don’t you think God wants us to enjoy life every now and then? It can be just plain fun to spend time with a person of the opposite sex. It doesn’t have to be fraught with sexual dangers; it can just be social.

My personal experience is that it’s better to become friends with someone and see what develops from there, rather than look at someone and immediately submit her to an inquisition to determine whether she is marriage material or not. (I had women run me through that kind of gantlet, and I’d be out of there in a nanosecond.)

What a dreary view of life.

 

[Catholic90]

Another thing is that dating is a modern invention. It has as its goal finding the most compatible partner; courtship is finding that person who God has willed one to marry. Why should we Catholics date when so many billions of Catholics in the past never did? Marriage ultimately comes down to a decision based on faith, not how well you “played the field,” searching for evidence to justify marrying a particular person.

We all use many things today that are modern inventions that “so many billions of Catholics in the past never did”.

Medicine, automobiles, heated homes, air conditioned homes, running water, indoor plumbing, manufactured clothing, electricity, computers, cell phones, and the list goes on and on…

So, yeah, you will excuse me if I choose not to suffer my aches without Advil, walk miles and miles everywhere, live in a shack, go outside to the pit toilet, wash my clothes in a bucket with a washboard and cold water, write all my communication longhand to be delivered by ponies, and not have a cell phone in my pocket.

I am currently watching my son date. He is having FUN! He does not have a single “girlfriend”; instead he is social with many girls. He is learning what qualities and personalities he likes and gets along with (and what qualities and personalities he does NOT get along with - just as important!) None of it is sexual; it is purely social - movies, going to eat, backyard bon fires, video games, etc. There is nothing wrong with that!

The question you have to ask, Geremia, is life to be endured, or is life to be enjoyed? Did God put us here to “endure” our time here, or did he put us here to “enjoy” his creation?

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Just read through all this thread and laughed.

Oh, to be young and idealistic again!

I love OldAgeGuru’s post. Awesome!

Okay, Chevalier, here we go:

Not judging that, or attraction itself. Merely saying that there shouldn’t be an automatic chain between attraction and those things (i.e. hugging, kissing, sending romantic letters etc). These are those things which make a relationship more serious and exclusive in my view. Or rather the external signs of one - without prejudice to the fact that the markings themselves are rather categorical and only debatable to a little extent.

I agree in principle. But sometimes you have to kiss someone to know if they’re “for you.” There was someone I was once infatuated with. I was a teenager. He was my first kiss. I knew by the time the kiss was over the voice in my head was saying “Not him!”

The problem no one has addressed with hugging and kissing people you don’t intend to marry is the effect on the OTHER person. If there is that much attraction, it is mutual. (I doubt anyone here would force such attentions on a stranger or someone who didn’t return the sentiments.)

And if the other person is trying to discern, giving such affection may lead them on, make them believe there is a future when there isn’t. That is an injustice to that other person. It is deceptive to them. It is using them. If you don’t intend to marry them someday, as soon as you realize this you have the obligation not to string them along.

Prayer is essential in all this. But so is experience.

Here’s a great way to mess up your life:

Be young. Be really idealistic and romantic about all the “old fashioned things.”

Have very little “dating” experience. Have friends of the opposite gender, but never take those to the next step.

Pray really hard for God to send you a spouse.

Meet someone who seems perfect on the surface.

Commence courtship.

They meet your family. They pretend to be courtly.

Become immediately exclusive with them. With your complete lack of anything to compare that person to.

Put up with their mood swings, because you’ve never dated anyone who didn’t go through black periods.

Put up with their head games, because you have no idea how delightful a romance can be with someone who deals with you honestly and doesn’t play head games.

Make excuses for them not being available, because you’ve never dated anyone who was truly in love with you and wanted to be around you all the time too.

Accept the person’s marriage proposal.

Get married.

Realize the person wasn’t what they appeared to be now that they’re in your face 24/7. Too late now. Breed with them and pray for the best.

Get abandoned.

Get divorced.

Doubt the love and mercy of God after you did all the right things and followed all the rules and it still crashed and burned.

Watch ex spouse play the same deceptive game with subsequent fiancees. (always picking people with very little experience because the women who had experience could see right through him.)

Get an annulment because the courtship process you went through was a farce and there was so much you didn’t know about that person and so much you overlooked because you didn’t know any better and had nothing to compare that person’s treatment with in your own life.

Watch your teenage child pick the future spouse at age 15 and ignore you as they become exclusively involved with their father’s clone. But hey, she’s “courting,” right? No abominably dating a bunch of people for her! She still plans to marry him when she’s 18.

Worked for me! I’m sure my daughter has a very happy future ahead of her too! But I wouldn’t know because she won’t talk to me anymore because I don’t approve of her “courtship” with someone who violated my house rules and who has made himself the epicenter of her life. She won’t accept the fact that normal 18 year old boys are not content to sit around and pick out names of future children. He should be playing baseball or something. She doesn’t know what it’s like to be around a boy who respects her family. Or who won’t make her wait outside for 20 minutes in the cold and rain before he drives her to school. Or who cares if she’s failing her physics course and could help her but sits and plays video games instead of being an actual help to her. She only has him to compare anything to. So she doesn’t understand any other perspective.

But I suppose the OP would approve of my “courtship” and the fact that I didn’t participate in that abominable dating stuff. And I’m sure my daughter’s inevitable heartbreak will be fine too. Because we didn’t date multiple people.

Well, my so-called marriage was an abomination. My advice to anyone is to get out there and meet a wide variety of people and make a man have to compete for you among a larger pool of suitors. If you’re not worth the effort to do that, you need to find out now that he doesn’t have staying power, or if something involves effort he’s not willing. And it will make him have to be more excellent than the others.

Same for men looking for good women. In business as in love, competition can bring about a better product.

 

[Dtmccameron]

A lot of Catholics never took antibiotics, either, but I hope you’ll forgive me if I choose not to die from an easily-cured infection.

How about the opinion that dating can be fun? Don’t you think God wants us to enjoy life every now and then?

Umm, No.

Where’d you get *that *idea?

Give me the Bible verse that says He does? Go! Find it. Right now.

…

…



…

…

Uh huh! You can’t do it, can you? Because never once does He say, “And I’ve made this world for the enjoyment of men” or “I want you to be happy, that’s why I died for you.”

No, you’re not gonna find anything like that. This life, this world, these things… were all made by Him, for Him, and for His pleasure. An obedient and happy servant, that’s what we’re to be.

But to vainly “live it up”? Wasting every waking moment of our lives towards such frivilous ends as “fun”?

Further, who could have fun, knowing, at this very second, children are being slaughtered, women raped, families destroyed? And at this second? And this one? And this one?

It’s a great time for a night on the town, ah! You can even smell the bodies burning in the night air! Mmmm! How romantic! And see? The legions of Hell blot out the light of the sun?

Thank goodness for the shade!

 

[Liberanosamalo]

You know, joy is the one emotion Satan cannot duplicate.

Despair is his dominion, though.

I’d like to believe the God Who created birdsong, newborn babies, fuzzy puppies and flowers and put us in the middle of that world wanted us to enjoy it every now and then.

 

[srlucado]

Umm, No.

Where’d you get *that *idea?

Give me the Bible verse that says He does? Go! Find it. Right now.

…

…



…

…

Uh huh! You can’t do it, can you? Because never once does He say, “And I’ve made this world for the enjoyment of men” or “I want you to be happy, that’s why I died for you.”

No, you’re not gonna find anything like that. This life, this world, these things… were all made by Him, for Him, and for His pleasure. An obedient and happy servant, that’s what we’re to be.

But to vainly “live it up”? Wasting every waking moment of our lives towards such frivilous ends as “fun”?

Further, who could have fun, knowing, at this very second, children are being slaughtered, women raped, families destroyed? And at this second? And this one? And this one?

It’s a great time for a night on the town, ah! You can even smell the bodies burning in the night air! Mmmm! How romantic! And see? The legions of Hell blot out the light of the sun?

Thank goodness for the shade!

Wow. Are you sure you’re not a Baptist?

Well, I for one am glad I don’t live near you. Must be weird, all those vultures circling overhead all the time.