Daughter engaged- why am I devastated?

[Lovemyfaith]

Ok enough is enough. I have been called rude, controlling and demanding. I have been told that my husband and I should bite our tongues and in the next breath that we don’t talk enough to our daughter and there are “hidden emotions”.
My objective in coming here was to honestly express concerns to other catholics who might offer encouraging and prayer full advice. Rather I got a lot of people telling me my daughter is an adult and no longer my problem. This is made sadder that it is the season of Lent, and a reflective time for us as Catholics.
I will end this thread by stating it is hard to talk to children about things like sex, money, negotiating and navigating challenges of life, but I have never backed down from those talks, and will not now. I will be heart broken should my daughter come to me (as one of my sisters had to do to my parents) and tell me she and her husband are getting a divorce because of financial and communication problems. Incidentally, her children from that marriage continue to this day to suffer from that decision.
Finally, I have watched my child be Baptized, make 1st Holy Communion, Confirmation anticipated the day when that child will celebrate the Sacrament of Marriage. That it will not be a full Mass is disappointing, dare I say yup-devastating.

 

[allycat10]

With all due respect, I think you should give your support & blessing to your daughter. Entrust your daughter and her fiance with their upcoming marriage to God, even if it’s scary for you. As a mom of two young girls and as a woman who married young and “unprepared” by your standards, my husband and I have fared well in the last 13.5 years. We have dealt with loss of job, no money, health problems, student loan debt and bankruptcy. I think even if we had known all we would be going through before getting married- it wouldn’t have stopped us.

I was 22 and my husband 30 when we got married. He was finished with college and had even been in the Navy & Army National Guard. He was not making great money either. I was not yet finished with college and in fact, I still had about 2 years left. College was very hard for me and I feel I had to work extra hard on my studies to get good grades. It was very stressful. I had one grant but the rest of my schooling and my husband’s was financed through student loans. My husband and I both worked full-time and yet neither of us had money (as in savings of any sort). This didn’t stop us or slow down our plans to be married. We didn’t have a big, extravagant wedding. We had about 200 attendees and we spent less than $2000 from our own money. We didn’t put any of it on credit. Maybe we weren’t ready financially, but we loved each other and were ready to take our relationship to the next level. I graduated almost two years later and had our first daughter 5 days after graduation! Then, when our baby was 6 months old, my husband lost his job. All of this was difficult, but we went through it TOGETHER. Since then, we have struggled a lot financially and finally we are starting to climb out. Looking back, I don’t regret our decision not to wait on marriage because of our financial “unpreparedness”. We really relied on our faith in God and His provision.

I know your are concerned about your daughter’s stress level, but I think she will be fine so long as she has your support. Don’t think that because you aren’t showing your “devastation”, she isn’t feeling it. In fact, if I were her, I would be stressed just by your attitude. And you know what, your daughter and her husband-to-be will probably encounter their own unexpected struggles when they enter into married life. Most likely they will be paying on their student loans for years to come.

I think it’s unfair to have your daughter wait until the time is “right” because that time might not ever come. Life is short. I had a close friend die of cancer in January. She was only 35 and had been married only 11 months. She and her husband had paired down a lot of their student loan debt and were preparing to start their lives together when she was diagnosed with stage III colon cancer.

Give her your love, blessing, and support of her wedding to come…

 

[CatholicRaven]

And, your poor daughter- your first reaction to her showing you her ring was “please don’t wear that to school, a man was shot near your school for his Iphone”. Not, “honey, what a beautiful ring”???

A response like that, in addition to your reaction to her fiance’s talk with you, as well as your interrogation of him at dinner about what he would do if he lost his job…sounds really stifling to me.

That was my thought when I read that, too. If that had been my mom’s first reaction to my engagement ring, I’d have said nothing to her, but then gone home and cried over the complete lack of emotional support from her! And my fiance (now-husband) would have been the one there for me. After that, I’d have seriously considered whether to bother sharing any other good news with her in future!

OP, maybe you’ll be angry with me and verbally tear me apart for saying this, but I think you need to take a really good look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself why you’re acting like this. The fear or pain or anger you are trying to keep hidden (mostly from yourself, apparently) is rearing its ugly head in some ill-mannered, disrespectful behavior toward your daughter and her fiance, and I suspect you aren’t really like that most of the time.

So you need to figure out what is causing you to act this way? Think about it. It’s one thing to ask a general hypothetical question of all the guests… but singling the guy out and challenging his ability to provide financially for your daughter at the dinner table–and in front of other guests? Would you have asked your husband’s boss such a question in such a way? What are you trying to do, guarantee that they won’t want to come over for dinner ever again?

I would think you’d want to be a safe place where your daughter and her fiance can share with you and ask you for advice when they need it… not the person they’ll be reluctant to share any news with because they’ll just get a pessimistic response under the thinly-veiled guise of “advice” or “concern.” It’s NOT any fun to tell people like that about being pregnant or moving or getting a promotion or anything. In fact, my husband and I avoid sharing good news with the naysayers until after we’ve told EVERYONE else who we know will be supportive and share in our joy first! We already know that there will be problems that may come up, but we will handle that when we get to them–together, and with the grace of God. But first, we want to take a little time to appreciate our blessings and thank God for them–not ignore the joy that God has granted us by focusing on everything that might go wrong!

Edify, edify, edify! Otherwise, if you keep doing what you’re doing–tearing them down and implying that you have no faith in either of them–you’re setting yourself up to be the last to know anything about their life. And they may just shut you out altogether.

Okay, I’m getting down off the soapbox now. Fire away.

 

[1ke]

got any more good news?

The Marriage Rite inside and outside of Mass are the exact same Marriage Rite. The Church has established norms for mixed marriages. I see no need to be rude about it.

Seems to me you have a lot of ideas about how things should go, and the fact that they are not going the way you envisioned everything is the root of the problem.

By the way, when future son in law showed up to talk to us about getting engaged, we asked why he wanted to get married right now, as opposed to waiting a few years and his response was he has a good job.

That’s because he’s too polite to say “because we can’t wait another 5 years to start having sex with each other” to his future MIL.

They are young, they are in love, they have seriously discerned their vocation to marriage with each other-- at this point they should NOT wait any longer than absolutely necessary to be married.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I will be heart broken should my daughter come to me (as one of my sisters had to do to my parents) and tell me she and her husband are getting a divorce because of financial and communication problems. .

Are you reading what you’re writing here? What in the world gives you any indication that your daughter and her future husband might get divorced because of financial and communication problems?

He has a good job, he’s getting a house already before they’re even married. That’s not good enough financially because he might lose his job? Anyone might lose their job. He’s supposed to have a backup job waiting for him before you’ll bless your daughte’s decision to marry him? Come on.

By the way, when future son in law showed up to talk to us about getting engaged, we asked why he wanted to get married right now

By the way, in the Church, “now” isn’t “now.” It’s at least 6 months from now, if not more.

As opposed to getting married when, though? When you give them the order to do so?

 

[Lovemyfaith]

bankruptcy

Since then, we have struggled a lot financially and finally we are starting to climb out.

I am sorry for the loss of your friend. I am glad you are starting to climb out. I still think having some savings and eliminating some debt is a good idea before starting a life together. I still think wearing a huge diamond in a high high crime area is a bad idea.

No worries. My DD just texted me a “what Christmas cookie are you” test from buzzfeed… She doesn’t appear to be too broken up over yesterday. I asked her if she spoke to her fiance about our question about job security. She said he actually texted last night about it and that he is looking into an executive MBA program his company sponsors. I asked if he or she was upset and she said no way.
Oh and she mentioned that she turned her diamond inside her hand while she walked from her car to school, and she might consider parking in the lot, though it is more expensive, rather than on the street.

 

[The_Bucket]

I think it’s unfair to have your daughter wait until the time is “right” because that time might not ever come. Life is short. I had a close friend die of cancer in January. She was only 35 and had been married only 11 months. She and her husband had paired down a lot of their student loan debt and were preparing to start their lives together when she was diagnosed with stage III colon cancer.

This is well said. Our lives on this Earth are short. Why is marriage being relegated to “capstone” status? Certainly we should be prudent with who we choose and when. Even those who are older might not be “ready” for marriage if they lived lives of irresponsibility, suffer from substance abuse or whatnot. But marriage is a vocation and this young lady should live out the calling God has given her.

Perhaps she was even called to help this young man, who seems like a decent fellow, come into the Church! My own brother-in-law is getting married soon and he is bringing his fiancee in. And it’s not like my BIL, by his own admission, was the most super-excited about his faith. Now? He’s warming back up. So the relationship, in my eyes anyway, provided a great opportunity for him to jump start his own spiritual life. God works in many wondrous ways and I have to say the woman he is marrying is easily the nicest and most patient/calm person (barring my own wife and mother in law) that I have ever met.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

He’s supposed to have a backup job waiting for him before you’ll bless your daughte’s decision to marry him? Come on.

Maybe have some savings should things go wrong?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I asked if he or she was upset and she said no way.

If my future mother-in-law was offensive to me in the lead-up to my wedding, I would never admit it. The last thing I would want to do is engage her in an argument. Why do you think he would want to create drama with his future in-laws? Just because he doesn’t admit that he was offended, doesn’t mean he wasn’t.

Maybe have some savings should things go wrong?

Right, so let’s see.

-Get a good job
-Buy a house
-Buy your daughter a ring
-Pay at least part of the costs of a wedding

Isn’t enough, he should also pay off student loans and have a sizable nest egg on top of that. They’ll be ready to marry by the time they’re 40, no doubt.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

If my future mother-in-law was offensive to me in the lead-up to my wedding, I would never admit it. The last thing I would want to do is engage her in an argument. Why do you think he would want to create drama with his future in-laws? Just because he doesn’t admit that he was offended, doesn’t mean he wasn’t.

perhaps my daughter is being honest and knows me enough to know I want only good for her? is that even a possibility in your mind? I asked if they were offended she said no I am going to take her word, not yours

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

perhaps my daughter is being honest and knows me enough to know I want only good for her? is that even a possibility in your mind? I asked if they were offended she said no I am going to take her word, not yours

It seems like you’re willing and eager to take your daughter’s word for it when it suits you, but when it doesn’t? Not so much.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

That was my thought when I read that, too. If that had been my mom’s first reaction to my engagement ring, I’d have said nothing to her, but then gone home and cried over the complete lack of emotional support from her!

Ok you need to know, my daughter laughed when I said it then went on about her professors and their fancy jewels Today she admitted she was nervous though. Incidentally, she was home, she lives here and she didn’t cry.

I would think you’d want to be a safe place where your daughter and her fiance can share with you and ask you for advice when they need it… not the person they’ll be reluctant to share any news with because they’ll just get a pessimistic response under the thinly-veiled guise of “advice” or “concern.”

And when they ask advice and I give it, should it be just what the want to hear?

 

[Lovemyfaith]

Right, so let’s see.

-Get a good job
-Buy a house
-Buy your daughter a ring
-Pay at least part of the costs of a wedding

Isn’t enough, he should also pay off student loans and have a sizable nest egg on top of that. They’ll be ready to marry by the time they’re 40, no doubt.

Or maybe wait two years until she is out of school, work during that time to save money, then get married. She’ll be 26, not 40.

By the way we are conservatives. We don’t use credit cards, we do without if we can’t afford.

 

[julescat]

I totally sympathize with Love My Faith’s dilemna. While the many trolls on this site want to drone on about credit scores, it’s a mother’s agony to always worry and want the best for her children.

It’s OK to question the young man. If he can’t answer straight forward questions, how can he be expected to be mature enough to face the rigors of marriage? If he doesn’t want to answer the questions then he is not being respectful. It is the right thing to do to be respectful and open a dialogue with the couple. The dialogue shows a healthy relationship. By reading some of the posts on this thread, I think many of these posters ONLY have relationships online posting.

 

[Lorelei12]

Ok enough is enough. I have been called rude, controlling and demanding. I have been told that my husband and I should bite our tongues and in the next breath that we don’t talk enough to our daughter and there are “hidden emotions”.
My objective in coming here was to honestly express concerns to other catholics who might offer encouraging and prayer full advice. Rather I got a lot of people telling me my daughter is an adult and no longer my problem. This is made sadder that it is the season of Lent, and a reflective time for us as Catholics.
I will end this thread by stating it is hard to talk to children about things like sex, money, negotiating and navigating challenges of life, but I have never backed down from those talks, and will not now. I will be heart broken should my daughter come to me (as one of my sisters had to do to my parents) and tell me she and her husband are getting a divorce because of financial and communication problems. Incidentally, her children from that marriage continue to this day to suffer from that decision.
Finally, I have watched my child be Baptized, make 1st Holy Communion, Confirmation anticipated the day when that child will celebrate the Sacrament of Marriage. That it will not be a full Mass is disappointing, dare I say yup-devastating.

No one said that you should not be generally concerned about your daughter’s well-being and safety. Every good parent is. But, yes, most of the posters on this thread have tried reminding you that your daughter is an adult, and that this is her wedding, and that her engagement to a nice financially stable guy is not anything to be devastated over.

It just seems like you are catastrophizing everything. What if he loses his job, what if she doesn’t get straight As, what if she is stabbed in the parking lot over her ring? And now what if they get a divorce because of finances? There is a difference between giving timely and wise motherly advice and making everything about potential disaster. When I got engaged, I was also attending a class in a not-so-good area. My then-fiance suggested that maybe I leave my ring at home when I went. But he didn’t say it right after he proposed! Would it have been so hard to hold your tongue, admire her ring, and then later on when she was leaving for class, say to her “I worry about something happening to you if you wear that around school. Would you like me to keep it in my jewelry box for you until you come home?” I sure would have cried if my mother reacted the way you did.

It’s not wrong of you to be concerned about their finances, and it’s not wrong to give her advice. But you have to be willing to say your piece and move on, and to use discretion about when you give it. That’s all part of the process of letting go of your kids. A parent who knows when to keep his or her mouth shut and when to time advice appropriately is going to have a much better relationship with their child as well as their grandchildren.

Finally, that she will not have a nuptial Mass is not really something to be devastated over either. Disappointed, maybe. But I sincerely hope that you will keep that disappointment to yourself and not give your daughter one more reason why you think she is making a mistake.

 

[Xantippe]

Lovemyfaith said:

“Last night at dinner, I asked my now future son in law what would happen should he lose his job once he and my daughter were married, if she was still in school. After all, he is buying a townhouse, and just bought a ring so I can’t think he has a lot of savings. He was shocked that would ask, as if that was impossible I went around the table and pointed to 3 of the 7 of us (and 3 of the others were him and my two children) and told him we had lost jobs. He then said he would easily get another, because at this point he has five years experience.”

I think you aren’t being unreasonable to want financial security for your daughter, but protecting chastity also has a lot of value. The people who are happy to wait several years to get married are the ones who are enjoying the perks of marriage right now.

If you want the young people to be financially set, put them through a personal finance course this summer, when your daughter is freer. It’s a very good idea as part of the marriage prep process and to keep the wedding planning reasonable. Let some other person who isn’t their mom and future mother-in-law talk to them about money–it will have more force if they hear it from others besides yourself. (Oh, and by the way–you should perhaps encourage the young people to get good term life insurance for each of them once they get married. It should be at least enough to pay off the mortgage of the town house.)

As I said, your desire for financial security for your daughter is understandable, but your ideas of where newlyweds should be financially would sound more reasonable directed at 40-somethings. When I got married, I was 22 (almost 23) and a first year grad student. I didn’t even own a spoon when I married my husband (25), also a grad student, who owned about three spoons, max. We had pretty much nothing and we lived as newlyweds in a one bedroom apartment for three years before moving on to a progressively larger series of rental homes as our family grew. Nearly 16 years later, we have three kids and are late 30s/early 40s. We are debt-free except for a mortgage (thanks Dave Ramsey!), we have about 25% equity in our house, we have a small but fiercely guarded emergency fund, we have a growing retirement fund, we don’t buy anything we can’t pay for in cash, we are insured up to the gills, and my husband has a very good job and brings in a fair amount on the side (he hustles like you would not believe). Now, we didn’t go directly from point A to point B (it took me the better part of a decade to smarten up financially), but it takes time, even under the best of circumstances. I got the personal finance religion around 2006, and it wasn’t until 2013 when we already had three kids that we were able to buy our first house.

For young people, I think that the important things to look at are character and trajectory. If they are bright, well-informed, have a good work ethic and good character generally, they have a very good chance of success.

 

[julescat]

if the young man has character and trajectory then he should be able to answer questions about his career. no?

 

[KnitNut]

Or maybe wait two years until she is out of school, work during that time to save money, then get married. She’ll be 26, not 40.

…isn’t a year and a half awfully close to 2 years? Are you really quibbling over 6 months? Presumably her fiance will continue to work during that time, and save up $ (and hey, even build equity in their future home). Or do you mean they should do nothing for 2 years, and start to save at that point…pushing the wedding off for another 3-4 total?

As previous posters mentioned, your daughter will have a sacramental (church) marriage, using the same rite as any other Latin church marriage. I can’t imagine how that would be…devastating.

Have you discussed your concerns and actions with your pastor/confessor/spiritual director? Honestly, if the best thing you could come up with, after learning that a responsible Christian man presented your daughter with a significant token of his eternal commitment, is “Don’t get shot”… Perhaps print out this thread and let him read it so he sees your true train of thought.

(And think about how you’ll respond when the happy couple tell you they’re expecting, down the road. Hopefully it will be something more…tactful…than “don’t get shot” or “that’s nice but this is a bad time”. Really.)

 

[julescat]

the 6 months would be the difference between graduating (and getting a job) and still being in school.

work on your reading comprehension.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

…isn’t a year and a half awfully close to 2 years? Are you really quibbling over 6 months? Presumably her fiance will continue to work during that time, and save up $ (and hey, even build equity in their future home). Or do you mean they should do nothing for 2 years, and start to save at that point…pushing the wedding off for another 3-4 total?

As previous posters mentioned, your daughter will have a sacramental (church) marriage, using the same rite as any other Latin church marriage. I can’t imagine how that would be…devastating.

Have you discussed your concerns and actions with your pastor/confessor/spiritual director? Honestly, if the best thing you could come up with, after learning that a responsible Christian man presented your daughter with a significant token of his eternal commitment, is “Don’t get shot”… Perhaps print out this thread and let him read it so he sees your true train of thought.

(And think about how you’ll respond when the happy couple tell you they’re expecting, down the road. Hopefully it will be something more…tactful…than “don’t get shot” or “that’s nice but this is a bad time”. Really.)

I will show him this thread. I don’t think I said anything I hope he wouldn’t say to my future granddaughter.

Their plan is to get married while she is in school. I would like the wedding to be when she is done school