De-spoiling a child

  • Thread starter Thread starter Allegra
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
OK. The dad is Catholic also? They had (i.e. have) a proper sacramental marriage? I’m just trying to understand the whole situation before I comment on how I believe religion can help here.

P.S. Were the kids baptized?
 
Last edited:
I really don’t know for sure. They were not married in the Church. The kids have been Baptized.
 
OK, not married in Church, so no sacramental marriage – bad. However, mom is a Catholic, keeps in touch with the Church, and has had the kids baptized – good. Dad probably not a Catholic, or a severely lapsed one, and shows no interest in taking care of the kids – very bad.

Harsh though it may sound, I think it’s hopeless as long as the kids are with her. There’s no way she’s going to find the strength to be more strict under the current circumstances, and these kids aren’t going to break out of their nasty habits of their own accord. In other words, the kids have to go somewhere else for a while for a couple months (minimum) of “unspoiling”. Doesn’t your friend have parents, other family, or a friend that can be of help?
 
They are 4 and 2, so I don’t think they are quite old enough to understand this. Maybe the 4yo on some level, but definitely not the 2yo.
Oh, I thought they were in school. Yeah, that makes the acting out much less about being spoiled and much more about trying some wrong-headed ways to take some control in a life that’s been feeling out of control.

I guess I’d say that I’d give her as much of your time as you can, because what she needs to do is to feel she can handle this herself. As far as getting help from church, you might point out that parishes need to have ways to reach out to people in need. Giving without a quid pro quo expectation is what gives a parish life. There are parishes that don’t want to do that, but they are very vulnerable to becoming country clubs. I’m saying that the parish needs her and her willingness to admit that she needs them as much as she practically needs them. That is called “the economy of grace.” Love is a need-need-need and a win-win-win all the way around. That is the way that grace works. You don’t repay; you remember and when life presents a chance you pay it forward. That’s really living life to the full; you don’t have to fear anything, if you don’t have to be tough all alone.

If you can “babysit” with her rather than in her absence, that might work really well. I suggest that you’re there with her rather than giving her time off because her kids are really vulnerable to being worried about being abandoned and getting a sitter might really ramp up the behaviors that are the big problem right now. Having someone along when she shops or does housework or whatever might give her time with her kids where she is really supported, though, if that is an option for you. That really depends on how you and she sense that could work out, because you know the actual dynamic better than I could. If you can shop for her or take something off of her plate on a regular basis, though, that could help her breathe easier. You know how it feels to have that tight band around your chest and that weight on your shoulders that kind of never goes away. The goal is to get her out from under that and let her have some time when she’s breathing freely.

She needs to have that ability to breathe in order to set boundaries that are sheltering walls for the three of them rather than dividing fences. That’s the goal, after all: a well-ordered home and the obedience that comes from being of a like mind: to have children who are willing disciples, not inmates. The word “obey” comes from the Latin “ob” (in the direction of) and “audire” (to hear). Real obedience is when you are in a relationship of understanding and a willingness to listen to what the person in authority has to say to you. That’s the foundation to lay between now and when adolescence hits.
 
Last edited:
OK, not married in Church, so no sacramental marriage – bad. However, mom is a Catholic, keeps in touch with the Church, and has had the kids baptized – good. Dad probably not a Catholic, or a severely lapsed one, and shows no interest in taking care of the kids – very bad.

Harsh though it may sound, I think it’s hopeless as long as the kids are with her. There’s no way she’s going to find the strength to be more strict under the current circumstances, and these kids aren’t going to break out of their nasty habits of their own accord. In other words, the kids have to go somewhere else for a while for a couple months (minimum) of “unspoiling”. Doesn’t your friend have parents, other family, or a friend that can be of help?
Oh, gosh, no, it is not hopeless. We had a poor man in our parish whose wife just up and left him and their children. I had his oldest daughter as a student in religious ed; I think she was 2nd or 3rd grade at the time. All of a sudden, she went from being quite well-behaved to acting out in class and just a different kid. Just an utter pill. Luckily, the change was so puzzling that I just rolled with it and then later asked the director of religious education about it, who filled me in on the situation. Aha! OK, we know this girl is only trying to cope with having the rug pulled out; she wants to “do something” about her situation, but has not idea what to do. I put the boundaries on her, but I also paid attention to her in positive ways and I was more “oops, we can do better than that” on the firm boundaries than “hey, cut it out!”

Fast-forward about a dozen years, and his children are in high school and college. He did a great job. The OP’s friend can get through this and she can have a great relationship with her children as their parent. She isn’t alone; she has people who care about her around her. It won’t be easy, but she is not alone and she and her girls can make it.

As for having no sacramental marriage, yes it is bad but now that it turns out her husband abandoned her at least this poor woman wasn’t abandoned from a valid marriage and could perhaps find a real husband to be a father to her children and bring them up in a real and lasting marriage.

It is too soon for that, though. For right now, she’s probably looking at behavior that is a child’s response to feeling things are out of control. The more the mother brings order and serenity to the household, the more this behavior is likely to die out, as opposed to difficult behavior that has an organic cause that will have to be managed for the child’s entire childhood. This could get better a lot sooner than that and with less professional intervention than that. It will be rough at first, but when the mother believes in herself, has support and direction, and uses that to regain control and supply the children with stable guidance, the children will come to accept it and be far happier with it. They’ll still have all the bumps and storms of childhood to go through, she’ll have the issue of how to compensate for the lack of a father and husband in the home, but it can be done.
 
Last edited:
Un-spoiling a child? Easy. A little bit of Vitamin N. N being ‘No.’
 
I was just going to say, does the meal time make a difference? Also perhaps the additives in the food may not help, highly processed foods are quick and cheap but maybe not that healthy and additives can make children more energetic (sometimes manic!) than you might like at bedtime.
Just a thought.
 
Un-spoiling a child? Easy. A little bit of Vitamin N. N being ‘No.’
Um…not when part of the equation is, “No, Daddy isn’t going to live with us anymore.”
When a child is going through an abandonment that she cannot begin to understand, things are not at all easy any more. She still needs discipline, but it is not going to be easy for anybody.
 
I was just going to say, does the meal time make a difference? Also perhaps the additives in the food may not help, highly processed foods are quick and cheap but maybe not that healthy and additives can make children more energetic (sometimes manic!) than you might like at bedtime.
Just a thought.
I don’t think there is a demonstrated link between hyperactivity and additives. There have been studies in which the parental report said there was but an assessment of video footage of what they were experiencing didn’t support it.

That’s not to say that good nutrition isn’t important, not at all. It’s just saying that when parents go through a divorce it is unlikely that it is the addition of meals coming from the freezer case can account for the changes in behavior seen in the children.
 
This was things are indeed challenging, but what is the alternative? Continue to say ‘yes’ to a child’s every demand?
 
I didn’t think it accounted for the changes in their behaviour, I thought it may be compounding her issues.
 
This was things are indeed challenging, but what is the alternative? Continue to say ‘yes’ to a child’s every demand?
No, no…thank you for the chance to clarify.
I don’t mean that “no” is dispensible. It isn’t. I mean that disciplining a child who’s going through a parent abandoning them like that is not an easy matter. They want to “do something about it,” I guess, or they want to register that “no, life is not the same and it is not OK and I am not coping with this.” That can come out as resistance to discipline that is not a simple matter to deal with at all. It takes the balance of both the limits and the understanding of what the child is going through. That isn’t an easy matter, particularly when of course the parent is at her wits end with everything else going on and would just like something–anything!!–to please be easy for a change.
 
OK. That’s quite a 180 from what you wrote earlier in the thread, i.e. that the mother is basically entirely incapable of controlling the kids. You’re citing a case of spontaneous improvment. Yes, that’s possible, but should your friend (and you) sit around and hope for that? I say put the kids somewhere else for a while, because there is no guarantee that spontaneous improvement will come any time soon. Anyway, good luck to your friend.

EDIT: Sorry @PetraG I was mixing you up with the OP!! Anyway, to me the situation doesn’t sound like one where improvement is around the corner. In the long run, sure, but for now I wouldn’t bet on it.
 
Last edited:
I didn’t think it accounted for the changes in their behaviour, I thought it may be compounding her issues.
True. When everything is so hard, anything that makes it even a little better becomes important.
Still, a parent in that situation can only make so many things the most important. It’s very hard. Still, there do seem to be children whose behavior is very different depending on what it is they’ve been eating, and that is well worth keeping track of.
 
I think it is clear these children have been traumitized by the separation. If it were me, I would go against my instinct on this one. I am one of those who believe co-sleeping is quite unhealthy for parents and chidren… However, I would go out and buy a kingsize bed and let the kids sleep with me indefinitely until they regain some of the security they have lost. It may be a couple of years, even. At some point, the kids will want their own bed and the transition will be smooth. I don’t think this is spoiling kids. I think it is getting to the root of the problem. They may, quite literally, fear that if they go to sleep then when they wake up they may find themselves abandoned with no parents. On an intellectual level they may know better. On an emotional level, not so much.

Please note: Please don’t send me a bunch of replies about the virtues of co-sleeping. I am past child bearing years and I am “old school” on that topic. I only referenced it to elaborate on just how against it I normally am. For me to encourage it in this circumstances is pretty drastic. But it sounds like it is what is needed. The mom can teach these struggling kids about personal independence in other ways, while they heal from the divorce.
 
In other words, the kids have to go somewhere else for a while for a couple months (minimum) of “unspoiling”.
OMGosh, that would be the worse thing on earth for that to happen to them. They’re acting out because of the trauma of their family breaking up, their lives being shattered, due to no fault of their own, and you’re suggesting they be sent off somewhere else, now without their mom? Seriously?
My suggestion would be to tell the children they can each choose 1 or 2 short stories to read before bed, read the books to them, say bedtime prayers, then lights off, sleep time. The mother can go to the neighbors and ask a favor if they could please tolerate some crying for a few nights until this routine is established. When the children aren’t being rewarded for misbehavior, they’ll likely cooperate. My experience is that consistency works wonders.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top