De-spoiling a child

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Roguish said:
OK, not married in Church, so no sacramental marriage
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You cannot know this. If dad is validly baptized and they had permission from the bishop to marry outside of form, they could get married at an underwater Elvis chapel and be Sacramentally married. Best not to play Tribunal on the internet.
 
I agree with co-sleeping for the time being. The most important thing is everyone is getting rest, because that means the children should feel better (no over-exhaustion leading to more bad behaviour).

It sounds really basic and she’s probably already tried this, but could she create some sort of behaviour chart? Reward them when they behave well, and it would also set up rules to give the family some consistency.

Maybe also she could try using a mindfulness video for children. Like the soft noise idea, but it would be directed to getting them to relax and go to sleep. They have some on youtube.

I’m sorry to hear all the trouble she’s going through at the minute. I hope it gets resolved soon.
 
That’s a good idea. I try to go shopping with her to help with the kids. I also give her some breaks as well. The older girl cries for a few minutes when she leaves, but she’s fine after a while. I also try to invite her to our family get-togethers so she feels like her girls can have a good time without having to stress about buying extra food or decorations.
 
I’m curious as to what you think someone else (essentially ANYone else) would be able to do that you don’t think she can do if she had a plan? She has parents, but they are elderly and unable to take them on for more than a few hours at a time. Her dad is showing signs of dementia and her mom has a lot to deal with. She has friends that would certainly help in an emergency, but they aren’t child-psychology experts that can “train up” her kids like puppies and then return them in perfect shape.
 
I haven’t been around at mealtimes enough to really have details, but my friend has a history of being a bit of a health nut, so I’m sure the food is the healthiest she can get ahold of.
 
My friend probably wouldn’t care if it was just a matter of normal co-sleeping, but her daughter isn’t satisfied with simply sleeping in mom’s bed. She insists that her mom be IN the bed with her the entire time. If she tries to sneak out of her own bed to use the restroom, she cries hysterically. It’s just not practical for a single mother to have a 730PM bedtime!
 
Understood. But the child’s insecurity is the issue at hand. Mom may need to set up a little office in the bedroom and work in there while the chidren are sleeping. I am not a therapist, but it seems to me like the kids don’t feel secure. The only thing that will rebuild security is creating a situation where they feel secure.
 
That’s kind of what I thought too. I even thought about if she tried it at her parent’s house, since they have single-family home, but they might be even more upset about it there.
 
The work she needs to do is laundry and cleaning the john. And being in the room isn’t good enough. She has to be IN the bed.
 
They weren’t given a disposition, but there was talk about a marrying in the Church at one point. I’m not sure if that every happened, but it seems a little insensitive to ask at this point.
 
Allegra said:
The work she needs to do is laundry and cleaning the john. And being in the room isn’t good enough. She has to be IN the bed.
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Well it is a starting point. “Mommy is going to get the laundry and bring it in here and fold it while you are falling asleep. I may need to make a few trips, but I will be right back.”

Just a suggestion. Lots of good ones here.
 
Yeah, I had even suggested moving the older girl’s cot to the end of the hall. That way she could see wherever her mom was in the apartment. Then once she got used to that, she could move it into the bedroom again. I still personally tend to think the band-aid method of just biting the bullet, putting her in there, telling her she’ll see her in the morning, and letting her “cry it out” would be faster, albeit not particularly comfortable for the first few nights. Moving her bed would be more gradual though and also help out with having her in a different space from her sister. (They take turns waking each other up with their crying.)
 
glorybe said:
OMGosh, that would be the worse thing on earth for that to happen to them. They’re acting out because of the trauma of their family breaking up, their lives being shattered, due to no fault of their own, and you’re suggesting they be sent off somewhere else, now without their mom? Seriously?
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Seriously. And what I had in mind was family, or if that’s not possible a friend whom the kids already know. Perhaps this is all very strange in the USA. Where I live it is very common thing for kids to live with extended family, usually for practical reasons, e.g. uncle’s house much closer to school. I don’t see the big deal, especially if it’s temporary.

Anyway, the point is, the kind of situation they’re in now is unlikely to improve soon. “Short stories before bed” are a sweet idea but it’s not realistic based on what the OP has already written.
 
Given the circumstances, I’d definitely say no to crying it out, at least not as you’re using the term, and the kids definitely need to remain with mom. More uncertainty and a greater sense of abandonment could be disastrous. I’d read a bit on the actual Ferber Method. While it involves a bit of crying, it definitely does not involve purposeful abandonment for however long it takes for the child to be quiet.

Are you two close? Can she and her children stay with you for a time? Potentially you could do her laundry and clean her bathroom. You could help during mealtimes.

If nothing else works, you need to encourage her to think as though she has a newborn. While a certain amount of laundry is necessary, she should feel comfortable temporarily suspending most housework. Right now the sense of security shared by her children must be the priority.
 
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You don’t see the “big deal” about very young children being taken from their mother after they have just experienced the trauma of losing their father and being essentially homeless for several months? That is absolutely nothing similar to a school age child moving in with an aunt in order to attend school. Like, not even remotely similar.
 
She actually has stayed with me before, but it is important both for her sanity as well as for her currently unresolved custody issues, that she have her own place to live and her kids are consistently sleeping there. I have been helping her out, but I have my own small children and a third on the way and I work full time, so no, I can’t really go over and help her feed the kids.
 
I’m all for the cry it out method…when the kid knows she is safe and a secure.
We did it with our daughters…but there literally is no issue with abandonment for them and they know that.

This is totally different and would solve nothing…I think it would make everything worse.

Reality is reality. If she needs to set up shop in her kids room…so be it.
Grab the lap top, grab a glass of wine and a comfy chair and throw on some headphones.
Have the kids help with laundry and getting stuff done.

I know, for me, I try to get everything done before the kids are in bed and then use the time between their bedtime and hubby and mine to relax.
 
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