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Rebecca_New
Guest
Bishop Kmiec has said what he needed to say-He has my love, esteem, and support. Our Priest already told us that he would not ever embarrass anyone from the pulpit. That’s enough for me.
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Ecce_homo_1
Guest
Perhaps your priest should also be embarrassed by public figures calling themselves Catholic and publicly doing things in direct contradiction of the Catholic Church.Bishop Kmiec has said what he needed to say-He has my love, esteem, and support. Our Priest already told us that he would not ever embarrass anyone from the pulpit. That’s enough for me.
I know evangelicals who used to be Catholics and one of the biggest driving factors was “look at what Catholics do”, they have the most abortions, all the Catholic politicians are Democrats and pro-abortion etc… It’s a great scandal and they cause us great embarassment. I would be more embarassed over the politicians who openly advocate abortion and embryonic stem cell research and yet they aren’t having their behavior corrected by the priest and Bishop whose charge they are in.
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fix
Guest
Nope. The point is manifest, grave, public sin is a scandal that can lead others astray. Failure to correct leads to what we experience today.I’ve never understood the fascination with people needing to be corrected ‘publicly’.
If we want to do so for the sake of forgiveness and reconciliation, this is laudable.
But to do so just to be able to say “SEE SEE…he’s sinning…I told you he was sinning”…seems irresponsible.
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Maureen_Fiore
Guest
That is the problem with today’s clergy most don’t speak from the pulpit using “fire and brimstone”. This is why many Catholics vote for politicians who support funding for abortion clinics, embroyonic stem cell research, and many more.
If Catholics only knew that they are putting their souls at risk when they choose to vote for such candidates. This should be told to the congregations when they go to mass so Catholics are aware of these sinful ways.
If Catholics only knew that they are putting their souls at risk when they choose to vote for such candidates. This should be told to the congregations when they go to mass so Catholics are aware of these sinful ways.
C
chicago
Guest
That’s also an approach which scarred a lot of people away.That is the problem with today’s clergy most don’t speak from the pulpit using “fire and brimstone”. This is why many Catholics vote for politicians who support funding for abortion clinics, embroyonic stem cell research, and many more.
If Catholics only knew that they are putting their souls at risk when they choose to vote for such candidates. This should be told to the congregations when they go to mass so Catholics are aware of these sinful ways.
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Ecce_homo_1
Guest
Seeing as Mass attendance is at its lowest percentage in the history of the Church I would say more people have been driven out by the apparent indifference of our leaders than by preaching truth from the pulpit…That’s also an approach which scarred a lot of people away.
My :twocents:
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Maureen_Fiore
Guest
When you become too lient with your children you not only loose their respect for you but you also lose their confidence too and they think nothing will hurt them. I think the we need to have more talk about damnation and why this can happen instead of constantly “sugar coating” everything.That’s also an approach which scarred a lot of people away.
B
buffalo
Guest
Politicians are public figures. They promote policies and should be called to be accountable.I’ve never understood the fascination with people needing to be corrected ‘publicly’.
If we want to do so for the sake of forgiveness and reconciliation, this is laudable.
But to do so just to be able to say “SEE SEE…he’s sinning…I told you he was sinning”…seems irresponsible.
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frommi
Guest
“It seems as if we want to be rewarded, not just with our own salvation, but most especially with other people’s damnation—just like the workers hired in the first hour” - Joseph RatzingerNope. The point is manifest, grave, public sin is a scandal that can lead others astray. Failure to correct leads to what we experience today.
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Ecce_homo_1
Guest
“Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them.”“It seems as if we want to be rewarded, not just with our own salvation, but most especially with other people’s damnation—just like the workers hired in the first hour” - Joseph Ratzinger
-Pope St. Felix III
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frommi
Guest
I’m not certain…at some point in my quote did I sugges we should not oppose error?“Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them.”
-Pope St. Felix III
You’re trying to seize high ground that doesn’t exist in the context of what I’m trying to say.
No one is saying not to oppose error…or not to work for truth and justice.
However…these things can be done without slinging political barbs using the Gospel of Christ as some sort of shield.
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Ecce_homo_1
Guest
Yeah well I don’t think anyone was glorifying in the politicians damnation either, it didn’t stop you from using your Ratzinger quote. I thought mine was just as appropriate as yours…I’m not certain…at some point in my quote did I sugges we should not oppose error?
You’re trying to seize high ground that doesn’t exist in the context of what I’m trying to say.
No one is saying not to oppose error…or not to work for truth and justice.
However…these things can be done without slinging political barbs using the Gospel of Christ as some sort of shield.
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frommi
Guest
Really?Yeah well I don’t think anyone was glorifying in the politicians damnation either, it didn’t stop you from using your Ratzinger quote. I thought mine was just as appropriate as yours…
Sure seems like it with quotes like “we need more fire and brimstone from the pulpit”…and the like…
People eat this sort of thing up like red meat at a politicial convention…
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Ecce_homo_1
Guest
If you read what was said in context you can see no one was glorifying in the politicians damnation…Really?
Sure seems like it with quotes like “we need more fire and brimstone from the pulpit”…and the like…
People eat this sort of thing up like red meat at a politicial convention…
“That is the problem with today’s clergy most don’t speak from the pulpit using “fire and brimstone”. This is why many Catholics vote for politicians who support funding for abortion clinics, embroyonic stem cell research, and many more.
If Catholics only knew that they are putting their souls at risk when they choose to vote for such candidates. This should be told to the congregations when they go to mass so Catholics are aware of these sinful ways.”
You can see it is actually quite the opposite… Maureen was fearing for the guys damnation in that statement.
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MichaelTDoyle
Guest
Frommi,Really?
Sure seems like it with quotes like “we need more fire and brimstone from the pulpit”…and the like…
People eat this sort of thing up like red meat at a politicial convention…
Politics should be subordinate to our souls and the souls of our brothers. Abortion is not being sufficiently condemned, nor is support for pro-murder-child in the womb politicians.
Do they not excommunicate themselves by their stated support for the legalization of killing humans in the womb?
They must not be catechized properly, or the only reason they should be at Church is to line up at the confesssional.
Being “nice” has to go by the wayside when it comes to keeping God’s commandments, particularly when it comes to the murder of innocent blood!
I hear my frustration echoed in this thread. There is a problem with disordered consciences thinking they are eligible to receive after supporting murder, innocent murder.
If this behaviour by the Bishop is good shepherding, I lack wisdom. I cannot see it.
If he had been catechized he would not have even entered the Church. Is it better he be an ignorant sinning churchgoer than to draw the line? Is that being pastoral? I honestly do not understand.
D
dessert
Guest
Amen to that!“Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them.”
-Pope St. Felix III
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manualman
Guest
Uh, didn’t Jesus look a pack of Pharisee directly in the eye and call them a “brood of vipers?” I don’t know the politician, so I can’t say for sure, but if he is the kind of guy who makes sure he gets pictures of his family coming and going to church then he is absolutely using the church to gain credibility for his politics and power position and deserves to be called a viper.
That said, it is probable that the deacon is out of line. It is the pastor’s job to provide such rebukes to a parishoner. He ought to speak with the Rep in private to admonish the fella that his actions have made it impossible for him to receive communion until/unless he repents of them. If the rep refuses the private rebuke, something like this might be in order. But it ought to be the pastor, or at least done by someone with the pastor’s delegated authority.
That said, it is probable that the deacon is out of line. It is the pastor’s job to provide such rebukes to a parishoner. He ought to speak with the Rep in private to admonish the fella that his actions have made it impossible for him to receive communion until/unless he repents of them. If the rep refuses the private rebuke, something like this might be in order. But it ought to be the pastor, or at least done by someone with the pastor’s delegated authority.
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hoosiertoo
Guest
The politician’s vote was public and a matter of public record.
NARAL’s approbation was certainly public.
The good deacon was not addressing a private sin; he was addressing a very public one. One that I am sure Rep. Higgins ran on in order to get himself elected.
If Higgins was offended, good.
If the clergy preach the truth and the laity are offended, oh well.
If
NARAL’s approbation was certainly public.
The good deacon was not addressing a private sin; he was addressing a very public one. One that I am sure Rep. Higgins ran on in order to get himself elected.
If Higgins was offended, good.
If the clergy preach the truth and the laity are offended, oh well.
If
then they probably need to be “scarred.”“That’s also an approach which scarred a lot of people away. (chicago)”
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Lance
Guest
The Pastor and Bishop kissed the politicians backside so it’s all O.K. Would Jesus call them Pharasies?*
Then why wasn’t it handled? Either do your job or shut up when someone does it for you! As we used to say in the Army, “Either lead, follow or get the hell out of the way!”
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DVIN_CKS
Guest
If you’re a public figure and put your moral beliefs out there for all the world to see then you should not be surprised when you are called on the carpet for them. Especially while you are sitting in a Roman Catholic Church which teaches that the murder of innocent babies is a mortal sin. I think it takes a lot of gall to show up to a mass trying to pass yourself off as a follower of the Church’s teachings. Again, this is making a public statement since you are a public figure.
If you don’t believe or want to endorse what the Church teaches on abortion then LEAVE!!! No one is holding your feet to the fire. Go find a nice Protestant church that will happily accomodate your liberal ideas. We don’t need your money or your public profile.
The Catholic Church would be a heck of a lot better off if these pro abortion politicians would just leave the Church. Let’s stop fooling ourselves…and confusing the ignorant.
If you don’t believe or want to endorse what the Church teaches on abortion then LEAVE!!! No one is holding your feet to the fire. Go find a nice Protestant church that will happily accomodate your liberal ideas. We don’t need your money or your public profile.
The Catholic Church would be a heck of a lot better off if these pro abortion politicians would just leave the Church. Let’s stop fooling ourselves…and confusing the ignorant.
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