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buffalo
Guest
The Buffalo News reported Higgins received emails in favor of him 4 to 1.
Email him your thoughts here:
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Dale_M
Guest
This isn’t surprising. I think people are more willing to rally to someone’s defense than to privately echo a public rebuke.
Awalt had some good suggestions. I would add one more.
The deacon mentioned Higgins’ recent vote on embryonic stem cell research, stated that Higgins was in the audience and encouraged parishioners to talk to him about that vote.
Rather than pillory Higgins for what he did, perhaps it would have been better if the deacon mentioned upcoming legislation and encouraged parishioners to talk to Higgins about what he should do. I think it would have been more effective and certainly less divisive.
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Apherius
Guest
This man needs to be hired by a more supportive diocese. The Diocese of Toledo could use more deacons that aren’t afraid to teach doctrine, the tact can be worked on later.
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kenwilsker
Guest
“The reason why a deacon or priest cannot call someone out by name is for the simple reason that they HAVE NO IDEA for sure if the person has not changed their heart and repented of their sin. Slim as the chance may be…there is still a possibility that the politician could have gone to confession and repented of his stance on abortion immediately prior to MASS. somthing of which a deacon would never ever know. Which again is why people cannot be singled out from the pulpit.”
Above is the kind of rationale for leaders not speaking up and not admonishing Catholic politicians who voted for a bill that clearly violates our faith. Our thoughts and our actions MUST match and if Mr. Higgins has had a change of heart then why does`t he come out and say so. I look at what the Pastor and Archbishop have done as cowardly and is a slap in the face for all the Holy Martyrs who gave their very lives to stand up for the truth.
I am glad this has happened to expose those so called shepherds who are in need of conversion themselves. Is there any reason why Americans who are not Catholic should doubt how really “Christian” we as Catholics are?
This good Deacon had the chutzpah to speak the truth. A politician who votes and is open about their disobedience to Church teachings now ought to be aware that they may be called out publicly for their apparent sin…or have a change of heart which is what we really want to happen. Ultimately a true pastor is one that is concerned with the eternal condition of his flocks souls. And one who could be leading people astray needs to be singled out and dealt with!! Otherwise that Pastor is going to be held responsible.
Ken
Above is the kind of rationale for leaders not speaking up and not admonishing Catholic politicians who voted for a bill that clearly violates our faith. Our thoughts and our actions MUST match and if Mr. Higgins has had a change of heart then why does`t he come out and say so. I look at what the Pastor and Archbishop have done as cowardly and is a slap in the face for all the Holy Martyrs who gave their very lives to stand up for the truth.
I am glad this has happened to expose those so called shepherds who are in need of conversion themselves. Is there any reason why Americans who are not Catholic should doubt how really “Christian” we as Catholics are?
This good Deacon had the chutzpah to speak the truth. A politician who votes and is open about their disobedience to Church teachings now ought to be aware that they may be called out publicly for their apparent sin…or have a change of heart which is what we really want to happen. Ultimately a true pastor is one that is concerned with the eternal condition of his flocks souls. And one who could be leading people astray needs to be singled out and dealt with!! Otherwise that Pastor is going to be held responsible.
Ken
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Amen!
I wonder how many Catholics, who have gone into porn sites on the internet on occasion, would like to have their priest or deacon, point it out before the congregation at Mass, during their homily?
Remember the words of Jesus, let he who is without sin, cast the first stone!
Jim
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frommi
Guest
I like the protestantism that is present in these threads that fails to recognize the bishop of a diocese as the moderator of the word and the mediator of all the goes on in his diocese.
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kenwilsker
Guest
A large number present will be thinking,“I hope nothing like that ever happens to me.”
EXACTLY my point!!! This is what needs to happen!!! Of course, ultimately it should begin to spark an examination of our own position and conscience so that we have a chance to make a change, repent, and move closer to what the Holy Spirit wants from us. It is only throught this process that we make the moral choice.
It takes real courage to talk about sin and truth because ultimately people get defensive and begin to strike back so one must be ready. This is probably why more of this is not being done.
There are 64 million so called Catholics in America under the authority of Jesus Christ and the Holy Catholic Church and magisterium. We could make a huge difference in this country and in our world if we exactly knew and acted according to our faith!! How will we learn if our Pastors do not teach and lead us???
Ken
EXACTLY my point!!! This is what needs to happen!!! Of course, ultimately it should begin to spark an examination of our own position and conscience so that we have a chance to make a change, repent, and move closer to what the Holy Spirit wants from us. It is only throught this process that we make the moral choice.
It takes real courage to talk about sin and truth because ultimately people get defensive and begin to strike back so one must be ready. This is probably why more of this is not being done.
There are 64 million so called Catholics in America under the authority of Jesus Christ and the Holy Catholic Church and magisterium. We could make a huge difference in this country and in our world if we exactly knew and acted according to our faith!! How will we learn if our Pastors do not teach and lead us???
Ken
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buffalo
Guest
If I hailed that “porn was good” in the town square then I should be called out.Amen!
I wonder how many Catholics, who have gone into porn sites on the internet on occasion, would like to have their priest or deacon, point it out before the congregation at Mass, during their homily?
Remember the words of Jesus, let he who is without sin, cast the first stone!
Jim
If I view porn privately how would the priest know, therefore how could he mention my name? This makes no sense.
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kenwilsker
Guest
With all due respect, private matters are to remain private. But a politician who votes publicly and what they do is a matter of public record does enjoy the same kind of consideration, sorry. Mr Higgins is very publicly expressing his opinion by voting for a program that is not in accord with the what the Church clearly teaches and in so doing is open to public rebuke in my humble opinion.
Ken
Ken
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
You obviously missed the point.
It doesn’t have to be porn per se, but any sin.
How many would like to have their sin pointed out before the congregation at their church?
Of course a priest can’t reveal what is confessed in confessional, but a deacon who works with lay people out in the world, could possibly have this information. He see’s a fellow parishioner, looking at porn at his computer terminal, or whatever. Who you like their deacon to single them out, in his homely at Mass?
Also, abortion isn’t hailed as good in the public squure.
Porn, well, the huge numbers that the porn industry makes would say the public hails it far more than abortion.
Jim
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Are all sins committed really private?
Sin hurts the body of Christ, the Church. It’s why we have to be reconciled to the Church, when we sin.
True, Mr Higgins is a public servant who votes against Catholic Teaching. That is for the Bishop to take up with him, privately, not for a deacon to publicly stone him over.
Jim
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buffalo
Guest
What happens if he tells the Bishop no privately.
Then does the public receive scandal? Then the Bishop should condemn him publicly?
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kenwilsker
Guest
Jim,
You might be right? I think of this as a matter of public scandel and this could be putting Mr. Higgins soul and the sould of those in the congregation in jeopardy. If this politician was involved in an adulterous affair and it came to the attention of the Bishop then I would agree that this must be dealt with privately and with discretion but I view this differently. This is a matter of public record!! And that politician is thumbing his nose at the Church and needs to be called out publicly. I applaud the courage of the Deacon. Certainly if this could be dealt with differently that is always best but as far as I can see this is either not happening or is not working and it is absolutely scandelous to the truth!!
The good Deacon did another good thing. By Mr. Higgins leaving before communion he prevented Mr. Higgins from causing serious harm to himself.!! I believe this is a great act of love on his part.
Ken
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awalt
Guest
Boy the more I think about this, the more I believe that the pulpit is not a place to “call someone out”. The purpose of the homily is to teach and relate the Scripture to our lives. We are not to judge, and I think the reason the Church officials are not coming to the Deacon’s support is because this is wrong.
Could you ever see Pope John Paul II doing this? I couldn’t. And even when going up against some of the allegedly evil Communist leaders he faced, he treated them with total dignity and respect - he treated them as God’s image – he treated them as well as Jesus loved him.
EVERYONE deserves total dignity, respect and love - no matter how evil their actions. That was JP II’s message and IMHO it’s a great message to always try and live by.
My .02
Could you ever see Pope John Paul II doing this? I couldn’t. And even when going up against some of the allegedly evil Communist leaders he faced, he treated them with total dignity and respect - he treated them as God’s image – he treated them as well as Jesus loved him.
EVERYONE deserves total dignity, respect and love - no matter how evil their actions. That was JP II’s message and IMHO it’s a great message to always try and live by.
My .02
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MichaelTDoyle
Guest
Public scandal=public correction
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kenwilsker
Guest
I totally agree with treating even our enemies with love and dignity.
For me it is a matter of being a good shepherd of the flock. Jesus went after the one missing to protect this one and to keep the flock in tact. I see this as the same. It is not loving to let just one stray into the hands of those who would do eternal harm to the soul. I believe this is an extreme act of love. Was it harsh, maybe and that is unfortunate but what temporary embarassment this might have caused is nothing to eternal separation from G-d.
I believe we might be able to achieve the same results differently but have we ? How has silence done so far? Is it dignified to let someone go to down the wrong path and take many with them? Is it loving? These are rhetorical questions that I believe we can have a honest disagreement about and I believe many Bishops would have different ideas on how to handle this too.
Ken
For me it is a matter of being a good shepherd of the flock. Jesus went after the one missing to protect this one and to keep the flock in tact. I see this as the same. It is not loving to let just one stray into the hands of those who would do eternal harm to the soul. I believe this is an extreme act of love. Was it harsh, maybe and that is unfortunate but what temporary embarassment this might have caused is nothing to eternal separation from G-d.
I believe we might be able to achieve the same results differently but have we ? How has silence done so far? Is it dignified to let someone go to down the wrong path and take many with them? Is it loving? These are rhetorical questions that I believe we can have a honest disagreement about and I believe many Bishops would have different ideas on how to handle this too.
Ken
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Lance
Guest
What a crock! Are you saying that mass murderers like Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Stalin, Hitler, Gobels, Mao and Osam Bin Laden deserve to be treated with dignity, respect and love? IMO they should be given a chance to repent then locked away for the resst of their lives to never see the light of day again.
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chicago
Guest
There could have been a much more effective way to accomplish essentially the same end without causing the negative reaction. JUST DON’T NAME NAMES.
The deacon could have even gone so far as to have stated something like, “Elected representatives have the responsibility to promote policies such as (outline them here) which upbuild life rather than destroying it. As faithful voters, we must articulate our concerns and express our outrage through charitible but firm public stands and in the voting booth. We should all examine our consciences fervantly concerning these matters and lovingly respond by taking appropriate action in order to act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God.”
This way, everyone would have still been challenged. The necessary issues would have been broached. But no one would have been personally called out. Even were the representative still to have left, some people wouldn’t have even noticed or understood why. Many people would have said that the deacon was well within his rights and the man needed to just deal with it. As it is, he was able to play the sympathy and “don’t tell me what to do” cards to the point that a healthy rebuke has been undermined and thrown even the bishop into making silly statements about how “sorry” the Church is for providing evangelical witness.
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irenaeus1
Guest
No, it looks as if you missed the point… which is that public sin demands a public redress.
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