Deacon hailed for pulpit blast at Higgins

[irenaeus1]

Could you ever see Pope John Paul II doing this? I couldn’t. And even when going up against some of the allegedly evil Communist leaders he faced, he treated them with total dignity and respect - he treated them as God’s image – he treated them as well as Jesus loved him.

Could you imagine John the Baptist publicly calling the Pharisees “hypocrites” and “brood of vipers”? Or Jesus doing the same? Could you imagine St. Paul publicly calling out a man in the Church in Corinth for sleeping with his stepmother? Or St. Paul naming those who have harmed his ministry?

 

[Lance]

To everyone who thinks the deacon was wrong,
Please show me in the Catechism of the Catholic Church where is says we should ‘pussy foot’ around evil and call it something else. Abortion and fetal stem cell research is evil and a public one at that anyone who participates in it is committing a sin especially one who publicly supports it.

 

[francesco920]

Those articles make my blood boil.

That deacon stood up for the preborn as he is required to do by the Church, and all he got was rebukes from the priest, the bishop, and fellow parishoners. Well, this is my opinion, but if “Catholics” are criticizing a deacon for standing by Church teaching, anathema to them! It’s time the Church is cleansed of the filth, and I don’t mean just the pedofiles and the bishops who protect them (although that would be a good start.)

 

[Lance]

Those articles make my blood boil.

That deacon stood up for the preborn as he is required to do by the Church, and all he got was rebukes from the priest, the bishop, and fellow parishoners. Well, this is my opinion, but if “Catholics” are criticizing a deacon for standing by Church teaching, anathema to them! It’s time the Church is cleansed of the filth, and I don’t mean just the pedofiles and the bishops who protect them (although that would be a good start.)

As Siskel and Ebert would say----

 

[awalt]

What a crock! Are you saying that mass murderers like Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Stalin, Hitler, Gobels, Mao and Osam Bin Laden deserve to be treated with dignity, respect and love?

View attachment 616

 

[francesco920]

To everyone who thinks the deacon was wrong,
Please show me in the Catechism of the Catholic Church where is says we should ‘pussy foot’ around evil and call it something else. Abortion and fetal stem cell research is evil and a public one at that anyone who participates in it is committing a sin especially one who publicly supports it.

But don’t you see? Punishing those who openly advocate for abortion or embryonic stem cell research would be contrary to the Spirit of Vatican II…

Plus it would be mean and not nice and it would hurt their feelings. We don’t want to lower their self-esteems, do we? That would make them sad and not happy. And denying them the community meal would also make them feel unwelcome and not special. How would you feel if YOU were bullied by a big mean bully deacon? Didn’t God’s Son/Daughter tell us to love our neighbor? Don’t you see!?

 

[awalt]

Could you imagine John the Baptist publicly calling the Pharisees “hypocrites” and “brood of vipers”? Or Jesus doing the same?

You are right, John the Baptist preached judgment, and many miracles of the OT expressed that sense of stern judgment. Jesus’ first miracle, though, was one of tender mercy. The lesson was not lost on the disciples who joined him at the wedding that night in Cana.

 

[awalt]

I am sorry, this whole thread is very sad. The kingdom of God is not a power structure.

Think about Herod and Jesus at the end of Jesus’ life. Herod the earthly king, Jesus the heavenly king. Herod wielded all kinds of power - many stories in the Bible. Jesus had power too - but he showed compassion, healed the sick, and fed the hungry.

Jesus refused to use coercive power. Christian hope rests on one whose love was spurned, who was condemned a criminal, and given a sentence of death. And the Jews hated him because he was not the king who would come and kick major butt to right the wrongs.

Despite Jesus’ example, history is full of people unable to resist the power trip of Herod - and under the flag of Christianity. History also shows that when the Church uses the tools of the world’s kingdom, it becomes ineffectual, or as tyrannical, as any other power structure. Our respect in the world declines in proportion to how vigorously we attempt to force others to adopt our point of view.

The kingdom of God works inside out - from within - look at all Jesus’ metaphors: Sheep among wolves, tiny seed in the garden, yeast in bread, salt in meat. The gospel of Jesus was not a political platform. While we are bound by duty to express ourselves, we dare not invest so much in the ways of this world that we neglect our main task of introducing people to a different kind of kingdom, one based solely on God’s grace and forgiveness. Jesus gave us a mission: to communicate God’s reconciling love to sinners.

Jesus said “All men will know you if you love one another”. He said that the night before his death. We must be God’s kingdom in this world, radically dissimilar to the world’s own manner and which contradicts it in a way that is full of promise.

I am sorry, this Deacon showed no love, he assumed the power and infighting ways of the secular world, he attempted to force another to his view through embarrassment and public ridicule, and he showed no example of God’s reconciling love to sinners.

Please - reflect on Jesus’ message. Reflect on the Bible tonight. Pray. And God bless us all, we need it.

 

[childofmary1143]

There could have been a much more effective way to accomplish essentially the same end without causing the negative reaction. JUST DON’T NAME NAMES.

The deacon could have even gone so far as to have stated something like, “Elected representatives have the responsibility to promote policies such as (outline them here) which upbuild life rather than destroying it. As faithful voters, we must articulate our concerns and express our outrage through charitible but firm public stands and in the voting booth. We should all examine our consciences fervantly concerning these matters and lovingly respond by taking appropriate action in order to act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God.”

This way, everyone would have still been challenged. The necessary issues would have been broached. But no one would have been personally called out. Even were the representative still to have left, some people wouldn’t have even noticed or understood why. Many people would have said that the deacon was well within his rights and the man needed to just deal with it. As it is, he was able to play the sympathy and “don’t tell me what to do” cards to the point that a healthy rebuke has been undermined and thrown even the bishop into making silly statements about how “sorry” the Church is for providing evangelical witness.

Having read every post here I must say that Chicago’s post best describes how I feel.

However I will add that while the Deacon didn’t need/nor should name the politician by name I can certainly feel for his frustration at the lack of moral integrity of the Bishops who allow pro-abortion politicians to profane the most August Sacrament.

You heard it here first: This will be the first and last time that a Deacon will do this. As you can divide dioceses that are liberal and conservative. In Conservative ones the Priests or the Bishop will speak about it and in Liberal dioceses all trouble makers (i.e. Deacons/priests who value all Human Life) will be intimidated into being quiet

 

[francesco920]

I am sorry, this Deacon showed no love, he assumed the power and infighting ways of the secular world, he attempted to force another to his view through embarrassment and public ridicule, and he showed no example of God’s reconciling love to sinners.

Please - reflect on Jesus’ message. Reflect on the Bible tonight. Pray. And God bless us all, we need it.

Could it be that the deacon was showing love for the millions upon millions of unborn children who have been slaughtered in the name of “choice” and the millions upon millions more that will be created in test tubes and slaughtered in the name of science and medicine if people like Rep. Higgins have their way?

Yes, Jesus taught us to forgive and to be merciful towards sinners, but He also condemned those who refused to acknowledge their sin and repent (e.g. the Pharisees.) At this point, it is totally appropriate and necessary for us to say “Woe to you pro-death Catholics!”

God bless this deacon. May He grant him the strength to keep on fighting for unborn and for the Church.

 

[Thoughtful]

:tsktsk: :tsktsk:

I am sorry, this Deacon showed no love, he assumed the power and infighting ways of the secular world, he attempted to force another to his view through embarrassment and public ridicule, and he showed no example of God’s reconciling love to sinners. .

You made some pretty good points until you got here…by publically making a judgement on someone’s actions, you’re no better then him…does anyone else sense a hypocrite?

 

[irenaeus1]

I am sorry, this Deacon showed no love,…

I am sorry, but what is your definition of love?

You are also referencing a very selective view of Jesus. Jesus had some pretty harsh things to say too. Perhaps you would have thought that Jesus was not demonstrating love. Some of the things he said… “It would be better if such a man had a millstone tied around his neck and he be cast into the sea.” Or, “unless you repent you will likewise perish.” Or “the man not wearing the wedding garment will be cast out into utter darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Or “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how can you flee from the judgment of hell?” Or “it would be better for this man if he had never been born.” Or “You are like white washed tombs, but inside you are full of dead men’s bones.” Or “For out of the heart of man come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft false testimony, blasphemy.” Etc, etc. Was Jesus loveless in these instances?

 

[Holly3278]

I applaud the Deacon’s effort! However, if the goal of the homily is pastoral care and/or education, and, not having heard what the Deacon said but just thinking about what I would do, I might have gone about this a little differently.

As you can see from the article, people reacted politically and on whether it was “popular” or not, and of course the naming of an individual became the lightening rod of the homily and I bet many people didn’t hear another word the Deacon said because they were watching and reacting to the congressman leaving, etc. That shows me many are uninformed.

So I think a good approach would be a homily that emphasized:

1. The Church’s teaching on the issue.
2. Emphasize the key point - saying a women having the choice to kill another human being is immoral.
3. Tell people pro-choice IS POPULAR, but discuss why Jesus’ way is not always the popular way, and ask if society would be better following objective morals (life, dignity, etc.) or the popular choices?
4. Urge our elected officials to establish laws based on a solid moral foundation. After all, blasting them publicly probably hardens their hearts even more - we hope they will start to listen a little with an open heart, that is the fastest way things can change.

Maybe 5-10 people would be a little more educated on the issue, which would help out a lot more in the long run instead of scandalizing this one guy.

My .02…

I fully agree with you. It could have been done a better way. However, I still support the deacon’s actions. Higgins must have really been feeling the heat for him to have left during the homily.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

No, it looks as if you missed the point… which is that public sin demands a public redress.

Even your sins?

Sins are not always committed in the privacy of your computer.

Either way, this deacon was way out of line, and it’s why the Church isn’t supporting him,

My guess is that he’ll be forced to offer a public apology at some point.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Could you imagine John the Baptist publicly calling the Pharisees “hypocrites” and “brood of vipers”? Or Jesus doing the same? Could you imagine St. Paul publicly calling out a man in the Church in Corinth for sleeping with his stepmother? Or St. Paul naming those who have harmed his ministry?

Keep in mind, when Jesus and John the Baptist spoke this way to the Pharisees, it was in response to the Pharisees coming to them, and accusing them of blasphemous or unauthorised teaching. The Pharisees were attempting to turn the crowds against them, it didn’t start out with Jesus and John the Baptist attempting to turn the crowds against the Pharisees.

Is this what the deacon was actually doing, attempting to turn the crowd against the sinner, Mr Higgins?

There is a vast difference between what Jesus and John the Baptist did in response to the Pharisees, verses the actions of this deacon.

Jim

 

[francesco920]

Keep in mind, when Jesus and John the Baptist spoke this way to the Pharisees, it was in response to the Pharisees coming to them, and accusing them of blasphemous or unauthorised teaching. The Pharisees were attempting to turn the crowds against them, it didn’t start out with Jesus and John the Baptist attempting to turn the crowds against the Pharisees.

Is this what the deacon was actually doing, attempting to turn the crowd against the sinner, Mr Higgins?

There is a vast difference between what Jesus and John the Baptist did in response to the Pharisees, verses the actions of this deacon.

Jim

No there isn’t, in fact what Mr. Higgins is doing is a million times worse than what the Pharisees did.

And what the deacon said WAS in response to what Mr. Higgins did. It was in response to Mr. Higgins’ active participation in the killing of innocent human beings. It was in response to Mr. Higgins and others like him going around and saying proudly “I’m a pro-choice Catholic! The Church is wrong.” By saying this, they are confusing Catholics and turning them against the Church.

What has this weak approach towards politicians gotten us since Roe v. Wade? Let’s see:

• Abortion is still as legal as it always was with “Catholics” in both Houses supporting it
• Embryonic stem cell research is going to become legal in part because of the support of “Catholics” in both Houses; millions more will be killed
• No significant progress has been made among pro-choice “Catholic” politicians
• The Catholic faithful is confused; they are told abortion is evil but see bishops and priests dining with pro-choice “Catholic” politicians and letting them receive the Lord in the Holy Eucharist
  I challenge anyone to tell me how being gentle and tolerant towards these politicians is helping anybody. Has it helped the unborn? No. Has it helped the politicians to see the truth? No. Has it helped the Church in convincing Catholics in general to acknowledge the truth about abortion/embryonic stem cell research? No.

 

[awalt]

You made some pretty good points until you got here…by publically making a judgement on someone’s actions, you’re no better then him…does anyone else sense a hypocrite?

Thoughtful, please don’t attack me and call me names. That certainly isn’t very Christian, and this isn’t a debate, we are sharing our views. You may want to refresh your knowledge of the forum rules, specifically "Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of personal attacks. " If you disagree you have a right to say so and express your opinion, as I have mine.

I judged his actions not him - and I said nothing derogatory about him as a person. We are discussing the situation, and whether we agree or not. I tried to suggest that people consider the mission of Jesus, and not just point to an isolated rebuke he made of someone. God is certainly a God of both judgment and mercy, but what is his message on how we are to live?

Thank you for prayerfully considering my opinions.

 

[francesco920]

Even your sins?

Sins are not always committed in the privacy of your computer.

Either way, this deacon was way out of line, and it’s why the Church isn’t supporting him,

My guess is that he’ll be forced to offer a public apology at some point.

Jim

I wonder if Mr. Higgins and others like him will ever give a public apology for supporting the death of millions of preborn children…

 

[awalt]

I am sorry, but what is your definition of love?

You are also referencing a very selective view of Jesus. Jesus had some pretty harsh things to say too. Perhaps you would have thought that Jesus was not demonstrating love. Some of the things he said… “It would be better if such a man had a millstone tied around his neck and he be cast into the sea.” Or, “unless you repent you will likewise perish.” Or “the man not wearing the wedding garment will be cast out into utter darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Or “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how can you flee from the judgment of hell?” Or “it would be better for this man if he had never been born.” Or “You are like white washed tombs, but inside you are full of dead men’s bones.” Or “For out of the heart of man come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft false testimony, blasphemy.” Etc, etc. Was Jesus loveless in these instances?

Of course not. I don’t think there is any Church or biblical support that our way to act as Christians is to attack and take the ways of the secular world. That’s different than showing times where Jesus makes a statement. Right or wrong this Deacon has established an opinion of Christ’s Church for many people - and that opinion fosters a view that’s no different than any other secular organization. That doesn’t win anyone over to Christ.

Again, look at JP II - he was loved by so many, he brought so many to the Church, to vocations, because of his ACTIONS not what he said. Sure he rebuked people at times, but he was known as a man who lived a different life on this earth than most. Don’t you think that’s what Christ wants us to strive for?

I am not saying it’s easy, we are successful, or that anyone is a lower person who does not do it - we are ALL sinners. IMHO if Jesus wanted us to take earth by storm and aggressiveness he would have set a much different example – and he did not. And time is showing that this incident sure wasn’t effective to change anyone’s mind, in fact it has alienated the very people we hope to reconcile with Christ. And if our mission is to reconcile people to Christ through our own behavior, to bring the lost sheep to the fold, this was a failed attempt.

Maybe we disagree on our mission here, as dictated by Christ?

My .02

 

[awalt]

I wonder if Mr. Higgins and others like him will ever give a public apology for supporting the death of millions of preborn children…

It’s wrong and it’s a grave sin - maybe he would if he repented, and maybe he would repent if he saw a better example of how to live his life. He hasn’t. Why are we so inflamed that he is a sinner? How did Christ ask us to act to further his church?

You can be sure Higgins sees our behavior as no different than his - he and many others see this as something reduced to a political battle and the public sees nothing Christ-like on our behavior or in an alternative we offer.

Re-read this thread. How much love and Christ do you feel reading this thread? Do you think anyone will print it out and read it as a devotion?

So think back to JP II - he wrote “Theology of the Body” in response to the secular abuses of our bodies and sexuality going on in the world. Which would is more in character with Christ and our mission - “Theology of the Body”, or if JP II had stood on a pulpit calling people out who favor abortion? Which is more in tune with Christ’s message?

This is not about whether we agree or disagree that pro-choice s mortally wrong - we all agree with that. We are discussing how to best live Christ’s mission on earth in response to secular evils.