Dealing with an effiminate son

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I have 3 sons (and 2 daughters). We home school. My middle son 12 yo is effeminate, and while sheltered to a degree from the outside world, the gay label has been applied to him by some scouts and sadly his elder brother. I have banned his elder brother for a month from any computer use and I won’t stand for this talk in my home.

I also was somewhat effeminate growing up and questioned my own sexual identity in my teens and 20’s. My question to you is how can I make my son more manly, and not have him question his sexuality to the degree that I did.

He is not into sports - nor am I. He is doing well in school and is emotionally behind his peers. He still likes to play with toys and is nowhere near as mature as his older brother (13 yo).

We are working as a family on his physical fitness merit badge.

I would appreciate any thoughts you can offer me.
 
Don’t hold up before him a macho image as the ideal for men. Rather, support him in what he does/likes best. If he loves to do things that are more generally assoicated with feminine activities, don’t make him feel like he is odd or is disappointing anyone’s sense of what is right for men to do. A man doesn’t have to be gay to love doing less physical activities. There are plenty of men who are chefs, scholars, poets, office managers, etc. who can’t lift weights or have any interest in fishing or other “manly” things. IOW, support him for who he is and what he loves to do without laying any judgments on him or forcing him to as to what he ought love doing or has to become.
 
PhilliesFan said:
I have 3 sons (and 2 daughters). We home school. My middle son 12 yo is effeminate, and while sheltered to a degree from the outside world, the gay label has been applied to him by some scouts and sadly his elder brother. I have banned his elder brother for a month from any computer use and I won’t stand for this talk in my home.

I also was somewhat effeminate growing up and questioned my own sexual identity in my teens and 20’s. I recall having what can only be described as gay dreams where someone was sodomizing me.

My question to you is how can I make my son more manly, and not have him question his sexuality to the degree that I did.

He is not into sports - nor am I. He is doing well in school and is emotionally behind his peers. He still likes to play with toys and is nowhere near as mature as his older brother (13 yo).

We are working as a family on his physical fitness merit badge.

I would appreciate any thoughts you can offer me.
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With respect, the best gifts you can give your son are love and acceptance of the person God made him. I get the concern, but there really isn’t anything you can “make” your son be and your attempts run the risk of making him feel inadequate.

Your other kids will take their cues from you - not just from their peers - so this is one of the rare situations in which I see ‘zero tolerance’ as appropriate. Let them know in no uncertain terms that the type of teasing you described will not be tolerated.

No parent wants to see their kid go through the same struggles they faced, but that’s how life works. The most you can do is be there for him. The need for constant prayer goes without saying.
 
Well, just keep emphasizing to him he’s his own person. That you were the same. That being masculine doesn’t mean you have to be ‘into’ sports. I love playing all team sports and always have (not a golf fan). My son doesn’t like any team sports but loves all the video gaming stuff. He’s learned a lot about setting up servers etc. hard for us to relate in some ways because we are so different. On the other hand, I don’t want to force him into being a ‘mini-me’.

I don’t know where you stand on the shooting sports, or SCUBA, or dirt-bikes/quads. Exposing him to some other things HE may be interested in could be a good thing. (My son liked shooting but not a fan of cleaning the weapons afterwards). If the concern is how others view him or comment than having him into something others may seem as masculine might help but…

The best thing you can teach him right now is that his own opinion of himself is more important than others opinion of him. If they said he was a lamp-post you still couldn’t stick him on the curb to help find the keys you dropped. He needs to learn that he defines himself, not others.
 
I think the best thing you can do is this:

a) First of all, tell him that you would never reject anyone because they were gay, you don’t tolerate those who do, and you do not reject how he is, whatever that is. More importantly, God loves every person, without respect to what their outward attributes or temptations are. Then teach him how to act with dignity when he is subjected to the cruelty of those who ignorantly think or act otherwise.

b) Secondly, tell him that some people think that you can tell when a person is gay by looking at them, which is not entirely true. Some gay men outwardly fit all the things that people think of as “manly”–have been gay men who played in the NFL, who were heart-throb leading men in Hollywood, and who served with distinction in the military–while some heterosexual men who don’t act the way that heterosexual men typically do. There are a lot of ignorant people who do not realize this–this includes some ignorant people who are gay!!–and it is the lot of those who don’t fit in the little boxes to deal with them. (Again: How do we deal with these people without losing our dignity or our charity? You can tell him from your own experience.)

c) Share with him the ways in which you have felt better by doing some of the things guys typically do that you weren’t naturally inclined to try. Let him know that it is wrong to reject trying something just because other people are pushing you to do it because it would be “manly”. Rather, be willing to try things that other men like doing, because if you learn to like it, it is a nice way to connect with other guys. Some other guys, in fact, don’t know how to connect in any other way. If you do their things, it helps them get to know you. Sometimes, life is a lot better when you make the effort to meet people where they are.

Whatever you do, do not tell him that the way he acts is not manly. He needs to self-identify that what he is as an example of what a man is. He needs to understand that some people will punish him for not fitting a more narrow definition, but the most important thing is that he feel he can defend himself this way: *I am a man, this is what I do, and therefore it is not unmanly. * Just that self-confident attitude will make whatever he does more masculine…just as a girl with that attitude will seem more feminine, because she is being true to herself.

Yes, there may be things he might need to choose to do in a different way in order to give girls their own role, to not “invade” that which has been carved out as feminine, but by that I mean wearing make-up and dresses, not enjoying opera or writing poetry or recognizing that he looks good in a pink dress shirt. There really aren’t many things like that these days: that is, things that are totally confined to one gender, rather than each gender doing the same thing in slightly different ways. Give him the option of doing anything that men in our era allow themselves. Make sure that you do not place any artificial boundaries on him, lest you disconnect him from his identity as a normal young man.

You’ve been there, though. Consider what would have made you a better man today, what would have made your adolescence and young adulthood better. Give him that.
 
Wow - such absolutely wonderful answers.

I am so very very happy I posted this question here.

Thank you so very much for your answers!!!
 
Why? Why not let him be him? Making him “more manly” won’t spare him from questioning his sexuality. Many people do that, even those who perfectly fit the gender mold. If he’s happy, leave him alone.
 
"Let him know that it is wrong to reject trying something just because other people are pushing you to do it because it would be “manly”. "

In other words, let him know it’s wrong to not want people to change who you are, right? How twisted. It is NOT wrong to reject doing something just because someone else wants you to do it! Would you tell a WOMAN that it’s wrong to not stay home and bake all day because someone tells her it would be more "womanly?
 
witsend said:
"Let him know that it is wrong to reject trying something just because other people are pushing you to do it because it would be “manly”. "

In other words, let him know it’s wrong to not want people to change who you are, right? How twisted. It is NOT wrong to reject doing something just because someone else wants you to do it! Would you tell a WOMAN that it’s wrong to not stay home and bake all day because someone tells her it would be more "womanly?
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People who suppose themselves to be the defenders of women push women not to do what they want to do all of the time: You shouldn’t work if your family needs you to, that isn’t feminine enough, you shouldn’t stay home if that is what you think is best for you, that isn’t what an educated woman does, if you’re the valedictorian of your high school, you shouldn’t go to beauty school if that is what you want.

Conversely, I kid you not, there are doctors who do not take up golf because that is a stereotype about doctors, there are priests who don’t wear clerical garb because other people are pushing them to do it or pushing them not to do it.

IOW, we sometimes allow outside pressure not just to push us into doing what we don’t want to do, but also to refrain from doing something that we might have tried if the proponents were not so pushy about it! This is especially true if we think we are going to be pushed into continuing to do something we don’t like if we have been seen trying it once, as if our decision not to do something is some kind of a judgment on people who still do it.

People are nuts, and it can take some purposeful self-awareness to keep ourselves from letting the nutty make us some kind of nutty, too, either out of compliance or resistance to their nuttiness. Twelve years old is not too young to learn that!
 
Della said:
Don’t hold up before him a macho image as the ideal for men. Rather, support him in what he does/likes best. If he loves to do things that are more generally assoicated with feminine activities, don’t make him feel like he is odd or is disappointing anyone’s sense of what is right for men to do. A man doesn’t have to be gay to love doing less physical activities. There are plenty of men who are chefs, scholars, poets, office managers, etc. who can’t lift weights or have any interest in fishing or other “manly” things. IOW, support him for who he is and what he loves to do without laying any judgments on him or forcing him to as to what he ought love doing or has to become.
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In addition to this, something this post leads me to think about are that there are gay “gym rats” (guys who obsessively work out and lift weights and have incredibly in shape bodies who are gay, even guys who have huge muscles), and gay guys who dress like bikers, and talk and act ‘macho’ who you would never suspect of being gay.

I just felt it was important to point out that by simply putting your son into an activity that is seen as manly isn’t necessarilly coorelated with ‘masculinity’.

God Bless,
Bill
 
I wouldn’t be pushy about it, but maybe someday if you sense that this is really bothering him or that he is seriously questioning his own sexuality, it might help him to know that you struggled with those questions as well and that you are now happily married. Just questioning your sexuality does not make you gay, or even bisexual.

Now maybe he’s gay and maybe he isn’t, but society today leans toward labeling anyone who even questions their attractions for a SECOND as being gay or at least bisexual. In fact, especially among college age women, I guarantee there are lots of girls going around experimenting with their sexuality and self-identifying as bisexual simply because they got drunk one night and had a momentary attraction toward their roommate. It might help him to know someday that if he IS having those questions, you went through it too.

Now I wouldn’t just bring it up out of nowhere, but if you see him struggling, knowing that you went through the same thing and worked through it might do wonders for his self-esteem. It might not be the most comfortable conversation you’ve ever had, but too many kids go through this alone for fear of what their parents might think, and often become seriously depressed as a result.
 
I"m curious, since your son is 12, and while he may not have hit puberty yet (I hit puberty very late, when I was 19 people thought I might be 14 or so), have you begun to have any conversations with him about sexuality? I have a first child who is less than 1 yo, so I"m not up to speed with what age appropriate sexual conversations with children are coming from their parents.

But it seems to me that before the age of 12 there should be conversations about the ‘birds and bees’, ways babies are made (blessings from God, through a man and woman who are in love and married and show special affection to one another as part of their marriage)- my point, they don’t have to be explicity.

One huge goal of mine is that as my child grows he will look to me and view me as someone he trusts completely, someone he can and will come to with any and all problems, questions, concerns, and be confident he will be told the truth by me and will always feel love and respect regardless of what he might ask and tell.

I want that kind of relationship so my son will come to me with issues such as alcohol and marijuana as he learns of other kids experimenting with it. I want to be able to provide him with great guidance and think that it will only be possible if I know what is going on in his life, the lives of those he has contact with or knows about, as well as what’s going on in his heart and mind.

So I suggest you have age appropriate sexual conversations with him. My dad was terrible at this, I learned from books and other kids. He gave me one talk, when he was extremly drunk…about how a woman gets pregnant when I was proably 17, maybe even older. The ‘left’ a couple of books about sexuality on the bookshelf, that’s all the education I got from them before this talk when I was about 17- WAY too late IMO.

Get him to open up to you. Think of it as a process, not a goal. And I suggest you don’t have a specific goal other than to imrpove your bond with your son and get him to trust you and begin to feel comfortable talking about sex with you, asking questions, etc. I definitely did NOT feel comfortable talking with my parents about sex at all, at any age and think this was one of their many mistakes. The bigger mistake, they didn’t behave towards me in a way I could trust them.

So have regular talks with him, give him 1 on 1 time, possibly away from the house. For sexual related discussions and other topics as well. He is at a critical age. If you don’t catch him and get him now (I’m assuming you haven’t and could be wrong) to trust you and begin to come to you with questions and issues, etc… by the time he’s 14/15 IMO it will be too late, the window will have closed. This is just my personal experience.

I wouldn’t set goals of having him engage in one or more manly activities at this point (if ever). I would set and follow through with the goal of having a strong father/son bond where you show him (your going to have to take the lead, and be patient, and re-visit this over and over and over again possibly) you are the person to talk to about issues and that he can trust you with anything and he can and should look up to you as a guide in life. You might have to share over and over your experiences growing up, your relationship with your dad, what you wish it would have been like, and what you would like your relatioinship with you son to be like.

Once you get into that proces and hopefully through modelling you can get him to a point where he can share things with you that he might not feel comfortable sharing with you now (and I"m talking in general, not about sexuality or his sexuality)… you can take it from there. But you need to get to that point with him where he can feel comfortable telling you things like “he broke such and such in the house” “he took a puff off of a cigarette some other boys were smoking, or simply that so and so smokes cigarettes sometimes”, so and so talks about girls boobs, whatever… things that kids might not feel comfortable telling their parents for any number of reasons UNLESS they are conditioined to do so by their parents. This will take time. Be committed to it and make it a priority, like weekly 1 on 1 time with him.

Then at some point he may feel comfortable talking with you about sexual thoughts he has or has had. You could at some point discuss masterbation and your relationship to that as a kid and whether or not you felt comfortable talking about it with your dad…and you wish that you did feel comfortable doing so… and felt that he woudn’t judge you and would be honest and direct with you about the topic. Thoughts you had about sexual matters when you were his age and you wish you could have talked about them with your dad and you see it as your role to provide him with trust, understanding, etc and hope that he can feel OK talking with you about those things…and that you won’t judge him. He means the world to you and sex is part of life and discussing with one’s parents is a good thing, you want that kind of relationship where he can talk about those things with him.

Only after all of that would I think about potentially introducing the topic of gayness. And only after all of that would I consider looking for an activity to potentially support him masculinely.

God Bless,
Bill
 
PhilliesFan said:
I have 3 sons (and 2 daughters). We home school. My middle son 12 yo is effeminate, and while sheltered to a degree from the outside world, the gay label has been applied to him by some scouts and sadly his elder brother. I have banned his elder brother for a month from any computer use and I won’t stand for this talk in my home.

I also was somewhat effeminate growing up and questioned my own sexual identity in my teens and 20’s. I recall having what can only be described as gay dreams where someone was sodomizing me.

My question to you is how can I make my son more manly, and not have him question his sexuality to the degree that I did.

He is not into sports - nor am I. He is doing well in school and is emotionally behind his peers. He still likes to play with toys and is nowhere near as mature as his older brother (13 yo).

We are working as a family on his physical fitness merit badge.

I would appreciate any thoughts you can offer me.
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BTW, the only reason I would bring this kind of thing up with my son would be in the context you describe: that is, that he had been subjected to cruelty that connects his mannerisms, favorite hobbies, or physical build to the possibility that he is gay.

If my 12 year old was not like other boys but he and his friends and classmates were all fine with the way he was and made no connection between that and his eventual sexual orientation and if he were not doing anything that is objectively inappropriate for a male, I’d leave it alone. Twelve year olds need to know what is appropriate and what is not, but the less 12 year olds worry about their sexual future, the better. Let them be kids, as much as possible. The less you seem anxious about them and their ability to navigate the world, the better, too.

PS I don’t know what you mean by “emotionally behind his peers”. Sometimes an emotionally sensitive child will suffer more than an emotionally thoughtless child, but that doesn’t meant that the sensitive child is “behind”. It may be that both children are growing unevenly, with their emotional aptitudes developing at different rates in different aspects of their emotional lives.
 
While it is true that our identities are formed by the “labels” people or society put on us, it is also the “self image” that your son has about himself, which plays an important role in discovering who he is.

Most parents love their children and would not do anything to hurt them, yet as parents, sometimes we don’t always know what to do. I have discovered that praise goes a long way in shaping and forming the behavior of our children. Just because we provide a roof over their heads and take of care of them does not mean we’ve done our job. The child who believes he is not only loved but “special” in your eyes and in the eyes of God, will start to act differently once that belief system kicks in.

It is your beliefs too that are passed on to your children, so you must take care to foster beliefs that instill character above all else. I believe we should instill moral values (God values) into our children so that they will grow in the ways of the Lord.

Below I’m sharing a prayer from the book “31 Powerful Prayers” by Gloria Coleman. Try to pray it every day over your children and see if things don’t change for the better. When you pray God’s Word (these are scripture based), His Word does not come back void. Pray and see.

Prayer for Your Children

Father In the Name of Jesus, I thank you for my children. I thank you that they are a gift from you. I ak In the Name of Jesus that they will come to know you personally and give their lives to you at a young age.
Let only your counsel concerning them stand. let only your purposes not be frustrated. Everyday cause them to increase in wisdom, stature and favor with God and man.
I decree and declare no weapon formed against them will propser, I condemn every tongue that rises against them in judgment for that is my heritage as a child of God and my righteousness is of you.
Father In the Name of Jesus enable them to make good decisions and keep them in the best plan you have for their lives.
I commend them to your grace which is able to keep them from falling and I give your angels charge over them to keep them in all their ways.
Father In the Name of Jeus I thank you that they are head only never tail, above only never under.
Father In the Name of Jesus bless my children, let no harm befall them or come near their dwelling place and perfect that which concerns them.
Let them discover your purpose for their lives at a young age and let them pursue that purpose in Jesus Name.
They will never be at the wrong place at the wrong time instead they will always be at the right place at the right time In Jesus Name.

God Bless
 
WOW!!

All great advice and I say this as a Licensed Therapist! No weird comments as I expected.

Thanks guys, for showing that CAF isn’t always going to present some strange version of “truth”.
 
In addition to the given advice, tell him what real manhood is.

Patient
Humble
Hard-working
Honest
Pious

And so on. If your son seems effeminate but has these things, then he is more a man than the He-man who does not.

EDIT: And I would add that these virtues are cultivated over a lifetime and no man is born being perfect in them, so that your son does not think he must be all of those things to a high degree right now.
 
Equites_Christi said:
In addition to the given advice, tell him what real manhood is.

Patient
Humble
Hard-working
Honest
Pious

And so on. If your son seems effeminate but has these things, then he is more a man than the He-man who does not.

EDIT: And I would add that these virtues are cultivated over a lifetime and no man is born being perfect in them, so that your son does not think he must be all of those things to a high degree right now.
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As I was reading through the thread, I was thinking that when I got to the end I was going to post that real strength is found in the virtues, no matter what gender, orientation, race, or ethnicity a person is a part of. You beat me to it!
 
PhilliesFan said:
I have 3 sons (and 2 daughters). We home school. My middle son 12 yo is effeminate, and while sheltered to a degree from the outside world, the gay label has been applied to him by some scouts and sadly his elder brother. I have banned his elder brother for a month from any computer use and I won’t stand for this talk in my home.

I also was somewhat effeminate growing up and questioned my own sexual identity in my teens and 20’s. I recall having what can only be described as gay dreams where someone was sodomizing me.

My question to you is how can I make my son more manly, and not have him question his sexuality to the degree that I did.

He is not into sports - nor am I. He is doing well in school and is emotionally behind his peers. He still likes to play with toys and is nowhere near as mature as his older brother (13 yo).

We are working as a family on his physical fitness merit badge.

I would appreciate any thoughts you can offer me.
Click to expand...
You do not say what your son has said though. I am not asking you to answer my questions here, just for yourself. Is he silent when labelled? IS he questioning his manhood on his own or is he merely in having to confront what others have to say about him? I suppose I am asking if it is actually a problem for him, or are you just thinking it is because of your own personal history and seek to prevent it for him.

By the way, I agree, wonderful replies from all.
 
I have been so impressed with the wise advice and replies you have received. I sincerely hope that you will be able to turn this over to God and let the Holy Spirit lead you as you help your son through the next few years as he grows into his adulthood. God bless you.
 
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