Dear protestant friends,is it fair?

[SIA]

egad! i will have to read entire thread!

again, it is wrong for ANY Christian to say whether or not someone is going to hell. i think the closest we can say is that if someone deliberately chooses not to be with God then it sure looks like he or she is hell bound, but we still could never know for sure what will happen.

anyway that was all i wanted to say. i like your online name btw!

God’s wisdom is way far beyond any church or any pope or any person and sometimes people need to just concede that they don’t have an answer for everthing.

 

[KenEOTE]

The Scriptures talked about the early Christians, not Roman Catholics.

Actually if you want to get technical the early church was called “The Way” or the Nazarens and were a sect of Judaism. They would meet in the synagogues and then meet in eachothers homes for fellowship. Modern day churches are a far cry from the 1st century church. It wasin’t until 50 AD that the world Christian was even used in Antioch.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

I have to be honest with you and tell you that it’s hard for me to feel any sympathy for you.

Not a very pastoral thing to tell a hurting christian, Pastor.
Pastor Jim:

It sounds like you’re getting a dose of what Protestants go through here when we constantly have to put up with comments like “you should ‘come home’ (as though our churches are not good enough)”, “well, you just don’t have the ‘fullness of faith’”, “We’re the real church, you’re not”, etc. I’ve seen posters here declared that non-Catholics are not saved.

Catholics do not use the term “saved” or “unsaved” as do protestants, at least not in the same way. So, I find your last comment somewhat suspect. Nevertheless, I would concede that some Catholics on this forum are less than charitable towards non-Catholics. Does that excuse the conduct described in the OP. You should be the one who sympathizes most with the OP, since you claim to have suffered the same sort of treatment here. Instead you tell the OP to “clean up her own house.” Is that how you want Catholics to treat you here?

Peace,
-Robert

 

[BlestOne]

The Mass is not mentioned in scripture. The Lord’s supper is hardly a description of the Mass. If the mass was so important to Jesus why didn’t he go into details about the priests in the new testament, what their responsibilities would be… the rituals on the altar, confession to the priests. Why is none of this in the new testament? I don’t think I’ve ever read anything about how important it is to obey Papal authority. Don’t you think these things would deserve a mention?

*The Biblical Way We Worship
*
Every Mass begins the same way. We make the Sign of the Cross and say, “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

For now, just note that the Sign of the Cross started with the Apostles, who “sealed” the newly baptized by tracing this sign on their foreheads (see Ephesians 1:13; Revelation 7:3).

The words we pray as we make this sign come straight from the lips of Jesus. Indeed, they’re among the last words He spoke to His Apostles (see Matthew 28:19).

Next in the Mass, the priest greets us. Again he speaks, and we respond, with words from the Bible. We say: “The Lord be with you” (see 2 Timothy 4:22).

In Scripture these words are a pledge of divine presence, protection and help (see Exodus 3:12; Luke 1:28). The priest might opt to use a different greeting, such as “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ . . .” but that greeting too will be drawn from Scripture (see 2 Corinthians 13:13; Ephesians 1:2).

The Mass continues this way - as a “dialogue” between the faithful and God, mediated by the priest. What’s striking - and it’s something we rarely recognize - is that we carry on this conversation almost entirely in the language of the Bible.

When we beg “Lord, have mercy” - our cry for help and forgiveness is one that runs throughout Scripture (see Psalm 51:1; Baruch 3:2; Luke 18:13,38,39).

When we glorify God, we use the song the angels sang that first Christmas night (see Luke 2:14).

Even the Creed and the Eucharistic prayers are composed of biblical words and phrases.

As we prepare to kneel before the altar, we sing another angelic hymn from the Bible - "Holy, holy, holy . . . " (see Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8). We join that to the triumphant Psalm sung by those who welcomed Jesus to Jerusalem: "Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes . . . " (see Mark 11:9-10)

At the heart of the Mass, we hear Jesus’ words from the Last Supper (see Mark 14:22-24).

Then we pray to our Father in the words our Savior gave us (see Matthew 6:9-13). We acknowledge Him with a line from John the Baptist: “Behold, the Lamb of God . . .” (see John 1:29,36).

And before receiving Him in communion, we confess our unworthiness - in words once used by a Roman soldier seeking Jesus’ help (see Luke 7:7).

What we say and hear in the Mass comes to us from the Bible. And what we “do” in the Mass, we do because it was done in the Bible.

We kneel (see Psalm 95:6; Acts 21:5) and sing hymns (see 2 Maccabees 10:7,38; Acts 16:25); we offer each other a sign of peace (see 1 Samuel 25:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:26).

We gather around an altar (see Genesis 12:7; Exodus 24:4; 2 Samuel 24:25; Revelation 16:7), with incense (see Jeremiah 41:5; Revelation 8:4), served by priests (see Exodus 28:3-4; Revelation 20:6). We offer thanks with bread and wine (see Genesis 14:18; Matthew 26:26-28).

From the first Sign of the Cross to the last “Amen” (see Nehemiah 8:6; 2 Corinthians 1:20), the Mass is an aural and sensual tapestry woven with words and actions, even accessories drawn from the Bible.

We address God in words that He himself has given us through the inspired writers of sacred Scripture. And He in turn comes to us - instructing, exhorting and sanctifying us - again through the living Word of the inspired Scriptures.

The history of the early church is written in the Acts of the Apostles. This book is in the Bible. It is part of the New Testament.
The first Christians met in homes on Sundays. The Bible says that they met to break bread. (Acts 2:42) They also studied the teaching of the Apostles, prayed, and encouraged each other.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

egad! i will have to read entire thread!

again, it is wrong for ANY Christian to say whether or not someone is going to hell. i think the closest we can say is that if someone deliberately chooses not to be with God then it sure looks like he or she is hell bound, but we still could never know for sure what will happen.

anyway that was all i wanted to say. i like your online name btw!

Hey Jen.

Yeah, it’s a tough thread. It saddened me deeply.

Yes, of course you are right in what you say. If only we approached people in the same way that our Lord Jesus did, this world would be so much more charitable, kind and loving.

Of course, our Lord did have some tough things to say to some people, but He was much more often loving and compassionate. I have to pray every day that my heart be cleansed and that I love people as He would have me do. It’s tough.

Thanks for the compliment about my screen name. I’ll send you a PM to discuss what it means for me.

God bless you…

MW

 

[Indyann]

The Biblical Way We Worship

Every Mass begins the same way. We make the Sign of the Cross and say, “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

For now, just note that the Sign of the Cross started with the Apostles, who “sealed” the newly baptized by tracing this sign on their foreheads (see Ephesians 1:13; Revelation 7:3).

The words we pray as we make this sign come straight from the lips of Jesus. Indeed, they’re among the last words He spoke to His Apostles (see Matthew 28:19).

Next in the Mass, the priest greets us. Again he speaks, and we respond, with words from the Bible. We say: “The Lord be with you” (see 2 Timothy 4:22).

In Scripture these words are a pledge of divine presence, protection and help (see Exodus 3:12; Luke 1:28). The priest might opt to use a different greeting, such as “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ . . .” but that greeting too will be drawn from Scripture (see 2 Corinthians 13:13; Ephesians 1:2).

The Mass continues this way - as a “dialogue” between the faithful and God, mediated by the priest. What’s striking - and it’s something we rarely recognize - is that we carry on this conversation almost entirely in the language of the Bible.

When we beg “Lord, have mercy” - our cry for help and forgiveness is one that runs throughout Scripture (see Psalm 51:1; Baruch 3:2; Luke 18:13,38,39).

When we glorify God, we use the song the angels sang that first Christmas night (see Luke 2:14).

Even the Creed and the Eucharistic prayers are composed of biblical words and phrases.

As we prepare to kneel before the altar, we sing another angelic hymn from the Bible - "Holy, holy, holy . . . " (see Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8). We join that to the triumphant Psalm sung by those who welcomed Jesus to Jerusalem: "Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes . . . " (see Mark 11:9-10)

At the heart of the Mass, we hear Jesus’ words from the Last Supper (see Mark 14:22-24).

Then we pray to our Father in the words our Savior gave us (see Matthew 6:9-13). We acknowledge Him with a line from John the Baptist: “Behold, the Lamb of God . . .” (see John 1:29,36).

And before receiving Him in communion, we confess our unworthiness - in words once used by a Roman soldier seeking Jesus’ help (see Luke 7:7).

What we say and hear in the Mass comes to us from the Bible. And what we “do” in the Mass, we do because it was done in the Bible.

We kneel (see Psalm 95:6; Acts 21:5) and sing hymns (see 2 Maccabees 10:7,38; Acts 16:25); we offer each other a sign of peace (see 1 Samuel 25:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:26).

We gather around an altar (see Genesis 12:7; Exodus 24:4; 2 Samuel 24:25; Revelation 16:7), with incense (see Jeremiah 41:5; Revelation 8:4), served by priests (see Exodus 28:3-4; Revelation 20:6). We offer thanks with bread and wine (see Genesis 14:18; Matthew 26:26-28).

From the first Sign of the Cross to the last “Amen” (see Nehemiah 8:6; 2 Corinthians 1:20), the Mass is an aural and sensual tapestry woven with words and actions, even accessories drawn from the Bible.

We address God in words that He himself has given us through the inspired writers of sacred Scripture. And He in turn comes to us - instructing, exhorting and sanctifying us - again through the living Word of the inspired Scriptures.

The history of the early church is written in the Acts of the Apostles. This book is in the Bible. It is part of the New Testament.
The first Christians met in homes on Sundays. The Bible says that they met to break bread. (Acts 2:42) They also studied the teaching of the Apostles, prayed, and encouraged each other.

Beautiful post!

And Jesus is THE WORD. He comes to us in the Holy Eucharist. We hunger and thirst for this Word, and he comes to us to nourish us.

Thank You Jesus, for this wondrous gift of Your Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

 

[ChristianKnight]

lol, you went to a protestant forum, as a Catholic, I would have expected the same. When I came here I expected much worse then what happened to me. People are rude to others because of their beliefs, that is never going to change.

 

[ralphinal]

lol, you went to a protestant forum, as a Catholic, I would have expected the same. When I came here I expected much worse then what happened to me. People are rude to others because of their beliefs, that is never going to change.

I am sorry that people are rude to you. That is not proper Christianity.

I will say this: at least the mods let us work things outn ourselves before they step in.

 

[ChristianKnight]

I am sorry that people are rude to you. That is not proper Christianity.

I will say this: at least the mods let us work things outn ourselves before they step in.

Please do not be sorry, you are not hte one being rude. I am not sorry for people being rude to you, cause I am not the rude person, I am sorry that you are attacked because of your faith.

On here? I have rarely ever had to fight mods, unlike on other forums.

 

[ralphinal]

Please do not be sorry, you are not hte one being rude. I am not sorry for people being rude to you, cause I am not the rude person, I am sorry that you are attacked because of your faith.

On here? I have rarely ever had to fight mods, unlike on other forums.

When I said that I am sorry, I mean to imply that I do not condone such behavior and that you should not take it to be standard among Catholics (some do). Besides, being Christian means forgiving without being asked and making amends without being forced to. Jesus bore my sins without me asking, I can bear anothers if it will help someone get to heaven.

 

[1holycatholic]

I have to be honest with you and tell you that it’s hard for me to feel any sympathy for you.

It sounds like you’re getting a dose of what Protestants go through here when we constantly have to put up with comments like “you should ‘come home’ (as though our churches are not good enough)”, “well, you just don’t have the ‘fullness of faith’”, “We’re the real church, you’re not”, etc. I’ve seen posters here declared that non-Catholics are not saved.

Maybe you should start to clean your own house first.

You should come home to the Catholic Church.

"Fifth Question: Why do the texts of the Council and those of the Magisterium since the Council not use the title of ‘Church’ with regard to those Christian Communities born out of the Reformation of the sixteenth century?

"Response: According to Catholic doctrine, these Communities do not enjoy apostolic succession in the sacrament of Orders, and are, therefore, deprived of a constitutive element of the Church. These ecclesial Communities which, specifically because of the absence of the sacramental priesthood, have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic Mystery cannot, according to Catholic doctrine, be called ‘Churches’ in the proper sense.

"Third Question: Why was the expression ‘subsists in’ adopted instead of the simple word ‘is’?

"Response: The use of this expression, which indicates the full identity of the Church of Christ with the Catholic Church, does not change the doctrine on the Church. Rather, it comes from and brings out more clearly the fact that there are ‘numerous elements of sanctification and of truth’ which are found outside her structure, but which ‘as gifts properly belonging to the Church of Christ, impel towards Catholic Unity.’

"‘It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church.’

What did you expect in a Catholic forum?

 

[Protestant101]

I have to be honest with you and tell you that it’s hard for me to feel any sympathy for you.

It sounds like you’re getting a dose of what Protestants go through here when we constantly have to put up with comments like “you should ‘come home’ (as though our churches are not good enough)”, “well, you just don’t have the ‘fullness of faith’”, “We’re the real church, you’re not”, etc. I’ve seen posters here declared that non-Catholics are not saved.

Maybe you should start to clean your own house first.

Pastor Jim; your post is too defensive. Why does it matter if the Catholics on this board say these things? To me; it just means that the door is still open to dialogue and comparison of our respective ideas. morning_star777 seems to be a sincere searching soul; I would personally like to wish this person God’s rich blessings as they continue to explore their new found Christian faith.

 

[RobHom]

I have to be honest with you and tell you that it’s hard for me to feel any sympathy for you.

It sounds like you’re getting a dose of what Protestants go through here when we constantly have to put up with comments like “you should ‘come home’ (as though our churches are not good enough)”, “well, you just don’t have the ‘fullness of faith’”, “We’re the real church, you’re not”, etc. I’ve seen posters here declared that non-Catholics are not saved.

Maybe you should start to clean your own house first.

Jim,

Since you were “honest”…I’m going to be just as honest with you. I feel no sympathy for you, none whatsoever. Why… because I found your answer not only “offensive” but boorish as well. Oh…now you find it convenient to play the “victim”? Yes, us dastardly Catholics just rip you and yours to pieces on a daily basis… Uh-huh… and I’ll bet an “internet nickel” that you have never seen or heard a protestant say the very same or worse, here or on any “protestant sites”. And if you are in fact a “Pastor”, and are in fact entitled to the “honorific”…one would expect far better from you. Or is your purpose here less than should be expected?

I’ll not tell you “to clean your own house first”, but instead will simply remind you that “people who live in glass houses should not throw boulders about”.

 

[KenEOTE]

Oh one thing. I think a moderator should come in here and delete the parts where people are sharing where Morning Star and some guy named Sam are outed.

We have put the lives of these two believers in great danger of persecution and worse by saying where they are from.

 

[BlestOne]

Beautiful post!

And Jesus is THE WORD. He comes to us in the Holy Eucharist. We hunger and thirst for this Word, and he comes to us to nourish us.

Thank You Jesus, for this wondrous gift of Your Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

Wish I could take credit but I can’t, had that page sent to a friend who said the mass wasn’t biblical.

 

[inJESUS]

We have put the lives of these two believers in great danger of persecution and worse by saying where they are from.

both of them stated previously where they are from, on other threads…but if you believe this can affect them in any way, maybe you must ask the mods to remove these details though am not sure how can this be harmful

 

[KenEOTE]

Well I have had a friend who went to Saudi before he left he put on his Blog he was going there and was taking a Bible to a friend. When he stepped into the Airport the Bible was taken from him. He was interrogated on who he had come to visit. Then promptly put back on an airplane back to the United States.

So if that is the treatement he got for bring a Bible to a friend in a Muslim Country I can only assume that a Christian in a Muslim country might face persecution as well.

 

[morning_star777]

Well I have had a friend who went to Saudi before he left he put on his Blog he was going there and was taking a Bible to a friend. When he stepped into the Airport the Bible was taken from him.

Thank you brother that you thought about safety of our life.But my country isn’t to much dangerous like SA or Iran.Though our peoples are also becoming very bigot day by day.But the risk of Sam_777 is very big i guess.

 

[mangy_dog]

I have to be honest with you and tell you that it’s hard for me to feel any sympathy for you.

It sounds like you’re getting a dose of what Protestants go through here when we constantly have to put up with comments like “you should ‘come home’ (as though our churches are not good enough)”, “well, you just don’t have the ‘fullness of faith’”, “We’re the real church, you’re not”, etc. I’ve seen posters here declared that non-Catholics are not saved.

Maybe you should start to clean your own house first.

Oh c’mon Pastor Jim,

Your church is “good enough”…at least you don’t deny the divinity of Christ! right?

And even though I agree with these comments, what I don’t agree with is the uncharitable way in which they seemed to have been said.
As for the “being saved” thing…I know that’s the protestant take on God’s mercy. Catholics should not assume that you can’t go to heaven. No!

And you’re right…who is anyone to determine God’s mercy at the moment of death? We can only denounce - we can’t judge.

I pray that some day all christian religions unite in the One, True, Catholic and Apostolic church. And you too Pastor…no, really…

Love ya Pastor

 

[Syele]

I never post such thread because i don’t want to divide christians.I became member in a protestant forum.this is (Link removed per Forum Rules) .most of people of this forum think that catholics aren’t the mainstraem christianity.I am upset with their comments.I tried to explain that both catholics&protestants are mainstream christians.&also give this catholic web address.but they aren’t ready to accept any information.I am sad.is it fair?

Fairness is hard to quantify, it also isn’t really often the way the world works. I left thinking fair how? Fair that people don’t understand truth and aren’t ready to hear it? I dunno about fair, but it is sad.

Protestants and Catholics really do have some major belief differences. Many people on both sides think those differences exclude the other from being Christian. Some are misconceptions, some clearly are not and are the teachings of the relevant churches. Those things get held onto with much passion. Sometimes Zeal overshadows peoples sense of charity and common sense. Should it? No, of course not. Does it? yes often.

What can be done? Mainly we can all pray for one another, Pray for God’s will to be done in their lives, for them to know God more perfectly than they ever imagined they could. Its very hard to hold animosity towards people you pray for often.

Next, someone said you are a new convert (If I read that right), If that is the truth, I would avoid going to that site for a long time. Stay here. Read apologetics, but read more things like Scripture and the Church teachings. You cannot adequately refute wrong ideas if you are not solidly grounded in what you believe are the right ones. If you do not know all your church teaches you might confuse the people you are trying to help more than help them. Much can be learned from informed debate, That is why I come to CAF when I’m not Catholic. But when I was much younger(Spiritually) I would not have gained from being here, I would only have become sad and frustrated way more than I do now, because I was not yet well enough grounded in my own faith. Don’t take your eyes off Jesus and let them rest on those with more zeal than sense. It’s all about Him, not about us.