Death Penalty: Applause for Rick Perry’s ‘Ultimate Justice’ at Republican Debate

[MillTownCath]

abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/death-penalty-applause-for-rick-perrys-ultimate-justice-at-republican-debate/#.TmlHqJTMw-o.email

From conception to natural death. No exceptions. That’s life in the image and likeness of God.

Death Penalty: Applause for Rick Perry’s ‘Ultimate Justice’ at Republican Debate

Full document here. Catholic teaching clearly and strongly calls for the end to the death penalty in the United States. Period. Anyone supporting it is not pro-life. Period. priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/penaltyofdeath.pdf

 

[Blacksword]

abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/death-penalty-applause-for-rick-perrys-ultimate-justice-at-republican-debate/#.TmlHqJTMw-o.email

From conception to natural death. No exceptions. That’s life in the image and likeness of God.

Death Penalty: Applause for Rick Perry’s ‘Ultimate Justice’ at Republican Debate

Full document here. Catholic teaching clearly and strongly calls for the end to the death penalty in the United States. Period. Anyone supporting it is not pro-life. Period. priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/penaltyofdeath.pdf

I 100% agree with this post!

 

[Joe_5859]

That would certainly be idea to find a candidate like that.

But let’s look at the issues:

• Abortion: the intrinsically evil killing of millions of innocent unborn children every year.
• Death penalty: at least theoretically can be used in a moral way and claims the lives of less than 100 guilty prisoners each year.

More babies will be murdered by abortion in the next 30 minutes than criminals executed via capital punishment in an entire year.

Given the choice between a candiadate who favors abortion and wants to end the death penalty and a candidate who favors the death penalty and wants to end abortion, the choice for me is clear.

 

[Ender]

From conception to natural death. No exceptions. That’s life in the image and likeness of God.

There are exceptions the Church has recognized throughout her entire existence. Here they are (from the Baltimore Catechism):

*Q. 1276. Under what circumstances may human life be lawfully taken?
A. Human life may be lawfully taken:

1. In self-defense…
2. In a just war …
3. By the lawful execution of a criminal …*

Catholic teaching clearly and strongly calls for the end to the death penalty in the United States. Period. Anyone supporting it is not pro-life. Period.

Again, this is not what the Church teaches. It is ironic that the phrase you chose to make your point - life in the image and likeness of God - is the reason God tells us that the life of a murderer is forfeit. The reason a murderer is to be executed is because man’s life is sacred.

Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image. (Gen 9:6)

The Church has always recognized the right of States to employ capital punishment, just as she has always condemned abortion. There is no justification whatever to equate these two issues.

Ender

 

[AlwaysCurious]

abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/death-penalty-applause-for-rick-perrys-ultimate-justice-at-republican-debate/#.TmlHqJTMw-o.email

From conception to natural death. No exceptions. That’s life in the image and likeness of God.

Death Penalty: Applause for Rick Perry’s ‘Ultimate Justice’ at Republican Debate

Full document here. Catholic teaching clearly and strongly calls for the end to the death penalty in the United States. Period. Anyone supporting it is not pro-life. Period. priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/penaltyofdeath.pdf

Ron Paul is against abortion, against capital punishment, and is probably the only candidate that might actually end American military involvement in the Middle East.

 

[MillTownCath]

There are exceptions the Church has recognized throughout her entire existence. Here they are (from the Baltimore Catechism):

*Q. 1276. Under what circumstances may human life be lawfully taken?
A. Human life may be lawfully taken:

1. In self-defense…
2. In a just war …
3. By the lawful execution of a criminal …*
   Again, this is not what the Church teaches. It is ironic that the phrase you chose to make your point - life in the image and likeness of God - is the reason God tells us that the life of a murderer is forfeit. The reason a murderer is to be executed is because man’s life is sacred.

Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image. (Gen 9:6)

The Church has always recognized the right of States to employ capital punishment, just as she has always condemned abortion. There is no justification whatever to equate these two issues.

Ender

Wrong. If you support the death penalty in a nation as rich as ours where there is no shortage of jails, you are going against the Catholic teaching. Perhaps the death penalty might be allowed in third world countries, but I’m obviously not concerned with that.

The Catechism states that although the death penalty would be theoretically permissible in instances when it is “the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor,” such instances are “practically non-existent” in today’s world, given the resources available to governments for restraining criminals.

“It cannot be overemphasized that the right to life must be recognized in all its fullness” - Pope Benedict

The need for the death penalty does not exist in the United States, which is why we Catholics do not support it. This isn’t an issue you have to wait around for until some day when the supreme court somehow magically overturns its stance on an issue. Vote out pro-death penalty candidates now.

 

[MillTownCath]

Ron Paul is against abortion, against capital punishment, and is probably the only candidate that might actually end American military involvement in the Middle East.

I respect Ron Paul more than most, but he wants to get rid of federal disaster relief entirely. There’s nothing “pro-life” about that.

And for all those who just got your fingers all warmed up and ready to type something like “But using tax dollars to help people is socialism!!” I’m going to stop you right there.

secure.crs.org/site/Advocacy?id=745

“More than 12 million of our brothers and sisters in East Africa—more than the entire population of the state of Ohio—face malnutrition and starvation in the midst of the region’s worst drought in decades. Meanwhile, Congress is gearing up to debate how to deal with our nation’s deficits, with some proposals drastically cutting international and domestic assistance to people in dire need such as those in East Africa.”

 

[Rence]

Wrong. If you support the death penalty in a nation as rich as ours where there is no shortage of jails, you are going against the Catholic teaching. Perhaps the death penalty might be allowed in third world countries, but I’m obviously not concerned with that.

The Catechism states that although the death penalty would be theoretically permissible in instances when it is “the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor,” such instances are “practically non-existent” in today’s world, given the resources available to governments for restraining criminals.

Ender is correct. If you are against capital punishment, that is your perogative, but it’s not appropriate for you to speak on behalf of the Church.

The walls of a jail do not always hinder criminals from exercising their authority to those living outside the walls of a jail, as we see people still commanding ‘underlings’ to do their bidding. In addition to that, some criminals are a constant threat to other criminals, and officers guarding them as well. The State is well within its rights to execute those who are still a threat to society. And in fact, it’s their responsibility to protect citizens from criminals.

The need for the death penalty does not exist in the United States, which is why we Catholics do not support it. This isn’t an issue you have to wait around for until some day when the supreme court somehow magically overturns its stance on an issue. Vote out pro-death penalty candidates now.

Again, with all due respect, it’s not your place to tak an authoritative tone in the name of the Church, and make claim to what Catholics support or do not support. You do not support capital punishment. Other Catholics do. I do. So does Ender. We are within our rights to disagree with you, and still be in communion with the Church.

 

[MillTownCath]

Ender is correct. If you are against capital punishment, that is your perogative, but it’s not appropriate for you to speak on behalf of the Church.

The walls of a jail do not always hinder criminals from exercising their authority to those living outside the walls of a jail, as we see people still commanding ‘underlings’ to do their bidding. In addition to that, some criminals are a constant threat to other criminals, and officers guarding them as well. The State is well within its rights to execute those who are still a threat to society. And in fact, it’s their responsibility to protect citizens from criminals.

Again, with all due respect, it’s not your place to tak an authoritative tone in the name of the Church, and make claim to what Catholics support or do not support. You do not support capital punishment. Other Catholics do. I do. So does Ender. We are within our rights to disagree with you, and still be in communion with the Church.

Could either of you two give me a direct quote from a high Bishop, Cardinal, or the Pope in the CC that says the the death penalty in the US is allowed? Why would there be a need for the death penalty in the US? Shall we rape the those who rape? Rob the robbers? No. Shall we Kill the killers? Why would we want to take away human life when redemption is stil possible?

*"…the nature and extent of the punishment must be carefully evaluated and decided upon and ought not go to the extreme of executing the offender except in cases of absolute necessity: In other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today, however as a result of steady improvements in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically non-existent."

–Pope John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, 1995

“Crime is both a manifestation of the great mysteries of evil and human freedom and an aspect of the very complex reality that is contemporary society. We should not expect simple or easy solutions to what is a profound evil, and even less should we rely on capital punishment to provide such a solution.”

–U.S. Catholic Bishops, Statement on Capital Punishment, 1980*

 

[Rence]

Could either of you two give me a direct quote from a high Bishop, Cardinal, or Pope in the CC that says the the death penalty in the US is allowed?

You already gave it yourself when you quoted below. Underlined by me.

*2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.*If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."

Why would there a need for the death penalty in the US? Shall we rape the those who rape? Rob the robbers? No. Shall we Kill the killers? Why would we want to take away human life when redemption is stil possible?

There would be a need for the dealth penalty in the US because some criminals do not stop being criminals while still in jail. They still give commands to those outside of jail, and manage their affairs from inside jail, such as gang members, drug dealers, mobsters, cartel leaders, etc. Some criminals are still a continued threat of rape and violence to others (like other inmates and prison guards) while still in jail. It’s not a matter of just killing killers. It’s a matter of keeping society safe from those who pose a threat despite being in jail.

 

[white_sheep]

abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/death-penalty-applause-for-rick-perrys-ultimate-justice-at-republican-debate/#.TmlHqJTMw-o.email

From conception to natural death. No exceptions. That’s life in the image and likeness of God.

Death Penalty: Applause for Rick Perry’s ‘Ultimate Justice’ at Republican Debate

Full document here. Catholic teaching clearly and strongly calls for the end to the death penalty in the United States. Period. Anyone supporting it is not pro-life. Period. priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/penaltyofdeath.pdf

I 50% agree with this post!

 

[white_sheep]

I think there are a lot of people in the U.S. that could use a hangin’.

 

[Corki]

Could either of you two give me a direct quote from a high Bishop, Cardinal, or the Pope in the CC that says the the death penalty in the US is allowed?

Here you go - one Cardinal, one Pope.

Cardinal Dulles

Summarizing the verdict of Scripture and tradition, we can glean some settled points of doctrine. It is agreed that crime deserves punishment in this life and not only in the next. In addition, it is agreed that the State has authority to administer appropriate punishment to those judged guilty of crimes and that this punishment may, in serious cases, include the sentence of death.

Many governments in Europe and elsewhere have eliminated the death penalty in the twentieth century, often against the protests of religious believers. While this change may be viewed as moral progress, it is probably due, in part, to the evaporation of the sense of sin, guilt, and retributive justice, all of which are essential to biblical religion and Catholic faith. The abolition of the death penalty in formerly Christian countries may owe more to secular humanism than to deeper penetration into the gospel.

It is sometimes asked whether a judge or executioner can impose or carry out the death penalty with love. It seems to me quite obvious that such officeholders can carry out their duty without hatred for the criminal, but rather with love, respect, and compassion. In enforcing the law, they may take comfort in believing that death is not the final evil; they may pray and hope that the convict will attain eternal life with God.

Pope Pius XII

Even when there is question of the execution of a condemned man, the State does not dispose of the individual’s right to life. In this case it is reserved to the public power to deprive the condemned person of the enjoyment of life in expiation of his crime when, by his crime, he has already dispossessed himself of his right to life.

 

[Ender]

Wrong. If you support the death penalty in a nation as rich as ours where there is no shortage of jails, you are going against the Catholic teaching.

This is incorrect. The Church does now and always has recognized that the death penalty is a just punishment for (at least) the crime of murder. The current magisterium has expressed their opinion that it should not be used but that is not a moral condemnation.

The Pope and the bishops, using their prudential judgment, have concluded that in contemporary society, at least in countries like our own, the death penalty ought not to be invoked, because, on balance, it does more harm than good. (Cardinal Dulles, 2001)

The Catechism states that although the death penalty would be theoretically permissible in instances when it is “the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor,” such instances are “practically non-existent” in today’s world, given the resources available to governments for restraining criminals.

The Catechism says a number of things. Section 2267 does state that capital punishment should not be used unless it is necessary for protection, but 2266 identifies the primary objective of all punishment … which is not protection but retributive justice, and it is this which is the obligation of the state to ensure, not protection.

The need for the death penalty does not exist in the United States, which is why we Catholics do not support it.

Catholics have no obligation to oppose capital punishment.

“There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty” (Cardinal Ratzinger, 2004)

Vote out pro-death penalty candidates now.

It too bad that Catholics don’t take this position about those who support abortion, which is an action the Church actually opposes.

Ender

 

[white_sheep]

It is an imaginary belief that the Church teaches against the death penalty.

 

[jwinch2]

abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/death-penalty-applause-for-rick-perrys-ultimate-justice-at-republican-debate/#.TmlHqJTMw-o.email

From conception to natural death. No exceptions. That’s life in the image and likeness of God.

Death Penalty: Applause for Rick Perry’s ‘Ultimate Justice’ at Republican Debate

Full document here. Catholic teaching clearly and strongly calls for the end to the death penalty in the United States. Period. Anyone supporting it is not pro-life. Period. priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/penaltyofdeath.pdf

According to the CCC, the death penalty is allowed in very specific circumstances where the person to be killed would otherwise be a significant danger to society, other prisoners, guards, etc. In addition, it is morally allowable to protect one’s family from attack or other harm which may lead to the death of the attacker. Finally, the Church allows “just war” which certainly will lead to the death of some.

 

[jwinch2]

According to the CCC, the death penalty is allowed in very specific circumstances where the person to be killed would otherwise be a significant danger to society, other prisoners, guards, etc. In addition, it is morally allowable to protect one’s family from attack or other harm which may lead to the death of the attacker. Finally, the Church allows “just war” which certainly will lead to the death of some.

I should add to my comments that I feel there are far too many people who consider themselves pro-life but have no problem at all with the death penalty and are too ready to resort to military intervention.

 

[Joe_5859]

We don’t even need to get into a debate about whether or not the death penalty is immoral. For the sake of argument, let’s assume that the death penalty is intrinsically disordered in exactly the same way as abortion.

Number of convicts killed via capital punishment last year: 46
Number of babies killed via abortion last year: ~1 million

It’s like comparing paper cuts to atomic bomb blasts.

Personally, I’m opposed to both abortion and the death penalty, but there is no way in the world I give them equal weight when I enter the voting booth.

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

We don’t even need to get into a debate about whether or not the death penalty is immoral. For the sake of argument, let’s assume that the death penalty is intrinsically disordered in exactly the same way as abortion.

Number of convicts killed via capital punishment last year: 46
Number of babies killed via abortion last year: ~1 million

It’s like comparing paper cuts to atomic bomb blasts.

Personally, I’m opposed to both abortion and the death penalty, but there is no way in the world I give them equal weight when I enter the voting booth.

I agree. Plus the fact that the victims, the unborn totally defenseless and innocent,
the death penalty “victims” have defense lawyers, etc, most at the cost of the
public’s tax dollars. All the appeals,etc are very expensive as well. (Worth it if even
one is saved by being found innocent.)

 

[Corki]

For everyone struggling with this issue, I highly recommend Cardinal Dulles’ essay “Catholicism and Captial Punishment”. He takes the position that it is good to be against the death penalty and to work for its abolition (as long as for the right reasons) but that it is wrong to claim that Church teaching is a violation of the right to life. He further explains how a unilateral teaching against capital punishment would go against the consistent teaching of the Church.

Very balanced and, as usual for Cardinal Dulles, a great read.

firstthings.com/article/2008/08/catholicism-amp-capital-punishment-21