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jman507
Guest
Given the nature of the conflict there, I’m sure there would be many Palestinians and Israelis that wouldn’t mind having the collective punishment of the other people. Again thats part of the problem.
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Yellow_Belle
Guest
That’s just avoiding the question.
Israel says it blockades Gaza to stop the flow of weapons to Hamas. That is how it explains the blockade to the world - as a means of defending itself against attack.
However, what it has consistently failed to justify is its apparently arbitrary list of foodstuffs and medicines, toys and school books and equipment that it prohibits from entering Gaza.
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Guyonthestreet
Guest
What modern 21st civilization classifies childrens toys and school equiptment - many would say essential for normal healthy development, as contraband?
What modern 21st civilization classifies fresh meat as contraband?
Or seeds or spices??
I believe another agenda is at work, not just the rightful prevention of arms smuggling.
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jman507
Guest
Yes, that is avoiding the question, because when it comes down to stopping the blockade that is not going to be the overriding factor. Of the number of push-pull factors for Israel, the stop of arms and precursers of arms is going to be it. So I would say, if your focus is going to be on the stopping the blockade, it should rather be focused on changing the banned list.
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Aquinas62
Guest
Why is the world only “outraged” at Israel when it kills its enemies, but nary a peep from the “world community” when innocent Israeli civilians are massacred by homicide bombers, missile strikes or gunman attacking civilian targets and schools?
does anybody remember those “Palestinian people” celebrating in the streets when the twin towers fell? I do… and I believe that nothing has changed. So, forgive me if I do not share in the “Outrage”
does anybody remember those “Palestinian people” celebrating in the streets when the twin towers fell? I do… and I believe that nothing has changed. So, forgive me if I do not share in the “Outrage”
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Many of those “enemies” that Israel kills are women and children - and in greater number than Hamas does to the Israelis. Go see what the ratio between those killed by Hamas and those killed by the IDF are. The Palestinians are just so much cold meat in comparison.
Forgive me if I don’t concede an inch to “Israeli” fighter bombers and artillerymen and those in “Israel” who direct them to kill “Palestinians.”
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Poco
Guest
Source, please?
I suppose if you limit it to just Hamas on the one side and include every Israeli military operation since, oh, let’s say the Six Day War, on the other side, you might be right.
I still don’t understand why this same outrage is not displayed towards those who deliberately and intentionally target civilians including women and children.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Only might be, eh?
The Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs for the occupied Palestinian territory (OCHoPT) was established in late 2000 by the United Nations as a response to the deteriorating humanitarian situation in the West Bank and Gaza caused by military incursions and closures. The office monitors the conflict and presents figures relating to both internal-violence and direct conflict clashes.
Casualty figures for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from the OCHAoPt
(numbers in parentheses represent casualties under age 18) Year Deaths Injuries
Palestinians Israelis Palestinians Israelis
2008-26.12.08[135] 464 (87) 31 (4)
2007 396 (43) 13 (0) 1843 (265) 322 (3)
2006 678 (127) 25 (2) 3194 (470) 377 (7)
2005 216 (52) 48 (6) 1260 (129) 484 (4)
Total 1754 (309) 117 (12) 6297 (864) 1183 (14)
All numbers refer to casualties of direct conflict between Israelis and Palestinians including in IDF military operations, artillery shelling, search and arrest campaigns, Barrier demonstrations, targeted killings, settler violence etc. The figures do not include events indirectly related to the conflict such as casualties from unexploded ordnance, etc., or events when the circumstances remain unclear or are in dispute. The figures include all reported casualties of all ages and both genders.
B’Tselem, an Israeli non-governmental organization, also maintains comprehensive statistics on the conflict for both the First Intifada and the Second Intifada.
Casualty figures for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from B’Tselem for the period as of 29.9.2000 (Second Intifada)
(numbers in parentheses represent casualties under age 18) Year Deaths
Palestinians Israelis
2004 828 (179) 108 (8)
2003 588 (119) 185 (21)
2002 1032 (157) 421 (47)
2001 467 (82) 191 (36)
2000 (as of 29.09.2000) 279 (83) 41 (0)
Total 3194 (620) 946 (112)
Casualty figures for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from B’Tselem for the period from 09.12.1987 to 29.9.2000 (First Intifada)
(numbers in parentheses represent casualties under age 18) Year Deaths
Palestinians Israelis
2000 (until 28.9) 16 (2) 2 (0)
1999 9 (0) 4 (0)
1998 28 (3) 12 (0)
1997 21 (5) 29 (3)
1996 74 (11) 75 (8)
1995 45 (5) 46 (0)
1994 152 (24) 74 (2)
14.9.93-31.12.93 42 (4) 19 (0)
1993-13.9.93 138 (37) 42 (0)
1992 138 (23) 34 (1)
1991 104 (27) 19 (0)
1990 145 (25) 22 (0)
1989 305 (83) 31 (1)
1988 310 (50) 12 (3)
Dec 9-31 1987 22 (5) 0 (0)
Total 1549 (304) 421 (18)
Figures include both Israeli civilians and security forces and casualties in both the Occupied Territories and Israel.
I don’t understand why there’s no outrage for “Israel’s” excesses.I still don’t understand why this same outrage is not displayed towards those who deliberately and intentionally target civilians including women and children.
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Yellow_Belle
Guest
What is the moral justification for having any list of banned foods, drinks, sanitary products, medicines, books and educational equipment, livestock and seeds, in the first place? Or at all?
If the Israelis seek only to prevent arms smuggling (and apparently not very successfully despite the blockade), why have they a stated government policy of ‘Putting the Palestinians on a diet’ and implementing that policy with an apparently arbitrary list of banned foods, medicines and basic educational equipment?
Those Christians and others pointing out the injustice of this policy and advocating for its abandonment have for many years now been ignored, denigrated, accused of supporting Hamas or of being anti-semitic. Short of taking the action that they did this week, which at least has brought this policy to the world’s attention, what would you suggest they should have done?
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gilliam
Guest
Watching all this from a distance. I would sum it up as: if it were up to Israel, there would be no war. If it was up to Hamas and Fatah, there would be no Israel.
Israel is fighting an existential war with the Palestinians (and by proxy with most of the Arab and Iranian world.)
Israel is fighting an existential war with the Palestinians (and by proxy with most of the Arab and Iranian world.)
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
A platitude that in no way reflects the reality of the situation. Israel has no worry whatsoever that Hamas and Fatah coul defeat it and destroy it.
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gnjsdad
Guest
and, judging from the international response to this, the rest of the entire world as well…
An “existential war”? What does that mean?
And does an “existential war” justify the killing of unarmed civilians? Is there an “existential war” codicil to just war doctrine that excuses Israel’s acts?
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trdchubi
Guest
With all the tirades against Israel acts of violence on a flotilla carrying "humanitarian"envoys and “peaceful” activies, I would like to post a question.
What is the TRUE purpose of this flotilla if the total amount of supplies transported, 10,000 tons in all, is less than the weekly average (YES WEEKLY AVERAGE) amount of goods transferred by Israel into Gaza?
What is the TRUE purpose of this flotilla if the total amount of supplies transported, 10,000 tons in all, is less than the weekly average (YES WEEKLY AVERAGE) amount of goods transferred by Israel into Gaza?
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Yellow_Belle
Guest
The flotilla was transporting some aid and materials banned by the Israeli authorities from entering Gaza.
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trdchubi
Guest
Like what?
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Archie
Guest
Again I say that none of us are able to obtain objective facts and evidence regarding this incident.
This is an event that is, at the least, being USED.
“Sides” are being served up to us.
I think we act unChristian when we take a position and side with one of the “sides.”
I think it is also misleading to regard “Israel” as a discreet sovereign nation state.
There is considerable evidence that Israel was instrumental in the founding of Hamas. The USA has funded “radical Islam” in many ways for a long time and are doing so in a big way to this day. So do not look at this as one discreet nation state versus another discreet nation. Those “sides” are just part of the manipulation.
Israel, as is the USA, and so many other nation states, a globalist entity. The controls on these countries operate from the international “banksters.”
Maybe a question that needs to be pondered is …
‘why would Israel do something that would make the world hate it?’
Obviously Israel knew in advance that the nations of the world, excluding the USA so far, would judge against Israel in this incident, so Israel must have a “use” for this condition. I do not personally see how that “use” is not something that can be used to precipitate a war on Iran by Israel.
There are brutal murderers of innocent people among the Palestinians as well as among the Israelis. The innocent people of both groups are pawns in a much bigger game.
I always look at things from the standpoint of those moneyed elites angling for the one world death and slavery system always fomenting wars and conflicts and always funding both sides and creating the best enemies money can buy.
This is an event that is, at the least, being USED.
“Sides” are being served up to us.
I think we act unChristian when we take a position and side with one of the “sides.”
I think it is also misleading to regard “Israel” as a discreet sovereign nation state.
There is considerable evidence that Israel was instrumental in the founding of Hamas. The USA has funded “radical Islam” in many ways for a long time and are doing so in a big way to this day. So do not look at this as one discreet nation state versus another discreet nation. Those “sides” are just part of the manipulation.
Israel, as is the USA, and so many other nation states, a globalist entity. The controls on these countries operate from the international “banksters.”
Maybe a question that needs to be pondered is …
‘why would Israel do something that would make the world hate it?’
Obviously Israel knew in advance that the nations of the world, excluding the USA so far, would judge against Israel in this incident, so Israel must have a “use” for this condition. I do not personally see how that “use” is not something that can be used to precipitate a war on Iran by Israel.
There are brutal murderers of innocent people among the Palestinians as well as among the Israelis. The innocent people of both groups are pawns in a much bigger game.
I always look at things from the standpoint of those moneyed elites angling for the one world death and slavery system always fomenting wars and conflicts and always funding both sides and creating the best enemies money can buy.
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Yellow_Belle
Guest
Paper, school books, toys, medicines, medical equipment, cement…
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Darryl1958
Guest
The true purpose of the flotilla is not to deliver humanitarian aid. There is no starvation or great want of material goods in Gaza. There is a lack of jobs, and a lack of opportunity for Gazans for sure, and even a lack of public services due to having the likes of Gaza running the country, but there is no lack that a flotilla of humanitarian envoys would be able to fill.
the true purpose of the flotilla is to breach the blockade and to make the blockade by Israel and Egypt politically untenable. It is to maintain the tirades of the left against Israel taking any action to defend herself against terrorists.
The same voices that are calling Israelis murderous thugs for attempting to maintain the blockade are the voices that protested the occupation of Gaza, and then the military response of Israel that was attempted in order to stop the barrage of rocket attacks.
The problem of constant rocket barrages against Jews is not a problem for the left. Just as it is not a problem for neo-Nazis and anti-Semitic racist so too it is not a problem for the left either. They are quite happy to maintain a status quo like that.
It is clear then. The goal of the left is to create a political environment in which a Jewish Israel has no right to defend her borders.
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Guyonthestreet
Guest
There is none.
It is collective punishment on a population, and the persecution of a people and that is illegal.
Mind you, so is the daily infringement of Lebanon’s air space, giving arab villages one hour of water a day while the rest gets diverted to illegal settlements etc etc etc
Like any of that seems to matter either
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Darryl1958
Guest
Does being a Christian entail that we not have a point of view?Archie;6714979 [QUOTE said:
Oops, is that the sound of Archie taking a side"
Hmm, so it is kind of like a conspiracy being staged by the international 'banker gangsters"
Yew, why indeed…
…on their way to world domination and one world government no doubt…
well yea, Hamas is a police state now. Murder is routine.
the moneyed elites, eh?
Now I wonder who those could be?
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