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latin_rite
Guest
LOL thats what i was thinking. I didn’t know the daily telegraph , the new york post, the sun and london times were made in israel. I think someone has hi jacked their site. Or its a mock site. One of the two.
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Dale_M
Guest
I think most Americans see Iran as a threat to the US, and the tea partiers are no different.
Hmmm… that is a point which conceivably could make some headway with the Tea Party movement. It might make for a good discussion in the Politics forum, since I know we have some CAF members who identify with them.
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latin_rite
Guest
Not quite. I have had two in one day. Just minutes apart.
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Darryl1958
Guest
Just as some Jews now side against Israel.
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Archie
Guest
With any big event like this, we the people will only receive “facts” and “evidence” as the “objective journalist” of whatever media venue chooses to convey to us.
If we are seeking truth, and if we wish to publicly oppose and resist evil and untruth, we are all out of luck because we have no way of knowing the facts and the evidence.
Is the nation state of Israel capable of attacking in a terrorist manner innocent people? There was something called “the Goldstone Report” prepared I believe by a “Zionist” judge writing on what happened in January of 2009 in the “Gaza war”. in a much larger incident that this one, where reportedly hospitals and schools and many innocent people in Gaza were said to have been “slaughtered.” The Goldstone report concluded that Israel and Hamas committed serious violations of the laws of war. The U.S. Congress overwhelmingly voted to “deep six” that report.
It is possible that Isreal was within its legal rights to board the ship in international waters. What happened after they board the ship is something we will never know about.
I ask simple questions like…
Why did not Israel peacefully request to conduct a full inspection of the ships’ contents? Was that or was that not done?
If the ships’ content was not weapons and was truly humanitarian aid supplies, it seems like Israel could have arranged for the ships to go through under their careful monitoring.
I do not trust Israel officialdom any more that I trust USA officialdom or Palestinia officialdom.
My feeling tis that this flotilla was arranged to precipitate and confrontation and that “both sides” can use this event, with both sides putting out their side of the story in the media, for their own purposes.
One fact that always remains true in an event like this. The world is to take a side and war is to be the immediate short-term goal, and one world government is always the long-term goal.
None of us know what happened and we never will, so we have no way to be just and truthful in taking a position on this.
(I searched for a thread on this and looked fist int he “Secular News” forum but could not find anything. I used the search function and it appears there are about 5 threads on this subject and they are all in some forum called “war on terror” but I could not access that a forum from the main page by that name. It seems this subject is not to be assumed to have anything to do with “terror” and would most appropriately be in the “secular news” forum.)
If we are seeking truth, and if we wish to publicly oppose and resist evil and untruth, we are all out of luck because we have no way of knowing the facts and the evidence.
Is the nation state of Israel capable of attacking in a terrorist manner innocent people? There was something called “the Goldstone Report” prepared I believe by a “Zionist” judge writing on what happened in January of 2009 in the “Gaza war”. in a much larger incident that this one, where reportedly hospitals and schools and many innocent people in Gaza were said to have been “slaughtered.” The Goldstone report concluded that Israel and Hamas committed serious violations of the laws of war. The U.S. Congress overwhelmingly voted to “deep six” that report.
It is possible that Isreal was within its legal rights to board the ship in international waters. What happened after they board the ship is something we will never know about.
I ask simple questions like…
Why did not Israel peacefully request to conduct a full inspection of the ships’ contents? Was that or was that not done?
If the ships’ content was not weapons and was truly humanitarian aid supplies, it seems like Israel could have arranged for the ships to go through under their careful monitoring.
I do not trust Israel officialdom any more that I trust USA officialdom or Palestinia officialdom.
My feeling tis that this flotilla was arranged to precipitate and confrontation and that “both sides” can use this event, with both sides putting out their side of the story in the media, for their own purposes.
One fact that always remains true in an event like this. The world is to take a side and war is to be the immediate short-term goal, and one world government is always the long-term goal.
None of us know what happened and we never will, so we have no way to be just and truthful in taking a position on this.
(I searched for a thread on this and looked fist int he “Secular News” forum but could not find anything. I used the search function and it appears there are about 5 threads on this subject and they are all in some forum called “war on terror” but I could not access that a forum from the main page by that name. It seems this subject is not to be assumed to have anything to do with “terror” and would most appropriately be in the “secular news” forum.)
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
It’s not the same. Jews can have serious reservations about whatever the current government in power there is doing. Not just Jews in the Diaspora, but also Jews in Israel.
Not all Jews kneel before Netanyahu as his right-wing supporters do. There are a number of political parties in Israel. Some, both leftist and conservative parties, do NOT side with current Israeli government policies. Unless you claim that Netanyahu = Israel, there is no problem with them not siding with him, with being “anti-Israel.”
Heck, there are Americans today, believe it or not, who do not side with our current Administration. Amazing. Siding against America.
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gnjsdad
Guest
This article is an excellent summary of political trends inside Israel today and the prospects for the entire “Greater Israel/Palestine” area.
You are right. Many Jews in Israel and the Diaspora are offended and deplore what Netanyahu is doing. The problem is that Jews of the secular Zionist persuasion are becoming less influential inside Israel. Indeed, many are leaving. They are being replaced by a growing population of more religiously Orthodox…the types who are supporting Netanyahu, building settlements in the West Bank, and bringing with them appallingly racist attitudes toward the Palestinians. This is why Israeli politics has taken a sharp turn to the right over the past decade.
Since it’s obvious that Israel rejects a 2-state solution, and it’s unwilling to grant full citizenship rights to the Palestinians, and for now appears to reject a policy of mass expulsions of Palestinians, Israel is in the process of becoming an apartheid state, something which, in the long term, is absolutely suicidal because nobody in the world will support such a state. How can the United States have a “special relationship” with an apartheid state?
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Ridgerunner
Guest
gnjsdad;6711442 said:
and it’s unwilling to grant full citizenship rights to the Palestinians,Many Palestinian Arabs are citizens of Israel. What Israel is not willing to do is grant citizenship to all Arabs claiming to be Palestinians who want to come to Israel. and for now appears to reject a policy of mass expulsions of Palestinians,** I take it you mean from West Bank and Gaza. Of course Israel doesn’t propose that. ** Israel is in the process of becoming an apartheid state,** Untrue. Israeli Arabs have essentially the same rights as any other Israelis. Some are even in the Israeli parliament. What they do not have is an obligation to serve in the Israeli armed forces, which every other Israeli has, and are excluded from some few very sensitive branches of government.** something which, in the long term, is absolutely suicidal because nobody in the world will support such a state. How can the United States have a “special relationship” with an apartheid state? **It doesn’t in Israel, which is not an “apartheid state”. It does, of course in some Arab countries, most of which are very much “apartheid states”. Many, many countries in the world are de facto “apartheid states”. **
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Kadaveri
Guest
Israel does not support the two-state solution. That’s very easy to check as there’s a vote in UN every year on implementing the two-state solution and every year Israel and the US defy the rest of the world by voting against it. The Oslo Accords say nothing about the two-state solution, Palestinian state or anything like that.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I would have to look up the resolution to see what it says. But I think if I were Israel (or the U.S.) I would be very unlikely to accept any UN-imposed settlement. The UN is dominated by tinhorn dictators.
But again, Israel has made offers, and continues to make them. Israel and the PA are close to agreement and would probably come to an agreement. Hamas, of course, by its charter declares that it’s Allah’s will that all Jews be killed, so it appears to me Hamas is the actual barrier to a two state solution.
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gnjsdad
Guest
And the 500,000 Israeli settlers illegally squatting on Palestinian land in the West Bank? The renewed Israeli attempts to force Palestinians out of East Jerusalem? Aren’t they a barrier to a 2 state solution?
It’s pretty apparent to me that the 2 state solution, much as people of goodwill would like to see it implemented, has become a pipe dream. Must the Palestinians accept some share of blame for this? Of course. At the same time, the Israelis have demonstrated they have no intention of taking any practical steps toward it, but have adopted the strategy of continually dragging out “negotiations” while the “facts on the ground” in the West Bank change in their favor.
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Monte_RCMS
Guest
Come on, Rich … R-E-R-E-A-D what I wrote.
But, you and I well know that the terrorists play nice with one another; they have the same goal and use the same means. A suicide bomb here; a press release there; a stunt like the “Gaza aid ship” from time to time.
And from time to time they do lunch.
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O_Duirnin
Guest
You do realise that there hasn’t been a single suicide bombing in Israel/Palestine since February 2008, and not one to which responsibility has been attributed to Hamas since January 2005?
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Kadaveri
Guest
Really, is every country in Europe ruled by ‘tinhorn dictators’? The fact is that for decades the entire world has agreed on how to settle this conflict with Israel and the US being the sole rejectionists who are blocking that settlement. Where is your evidence that Israel and the PA are close to an agreement? They’ve been negotiating in this so called ‘peace-process’ for 17 years and an agreement has only gotten further away, both sides are admitting these ‘peace talks’ are not serious and are not going to lead to any settlement, but here you come making these outlandish claims without any evidence at all.
Hamas has repeatedly offered (including just last week) to end the conflict with Israel if it were to just withdraw to the 1967 borders and allow an independent Palestinian state to be established. They are not the obstacle to a two-state solution, the obstacle is that Israel does not want to withdraw from Palestinian lands.
I must disagree here. Israel wants people to start thinking the two-state solution has become impossible so it can get away with annexing Palestinian lands, we mustn’t give them excuses. All Israel has to do is say “ok we’re leaving” and take all its soldiers out of the occupied territories. They don’t even need to dismantle settlements like they did in Gaza (which was obviously an unnecessary media stunt), just say we’re leaving and anyone who wants to stay can stay. Most would leave of their own accord, as they only live in settlements because Israel heavily subsidizes them and gives settlers massive tax-breaks to encourage people to move there.
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Aquinas62
Guest
I am sorry the Isrealies missed a few, Humanitarian convoy my rear!!! IMHO they should have been sunk as well…Israel sent gunboats, armed helicopters, and dropped armed commandos with the intent to hijack a civilian humanitarian vessel in international waters and murdered 19 people in the process. Whats more, they have the gall to call the victims criminals and terrorists for defending themselves! It’s also clear now that the only guns onboard the vessel were taken during the scuffle from the Israeli commandos who boarded the ship. Sanctions should be imposed at the very least for this outrageous event!
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Yellow_Belle
Guest
And they’ll know we are Christians by our love…
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Aquinas62
Guest
The problem or difference, Rich, is that we as Americans do not face imminent annihilation and the Israelis do not have the luxury of defending a large territory. they live in a country that is smaller than New Jersey, and all those wonderful Peace Activists" wanted to do was deliver weapons under the cover of humanitarian aid to be safely delivered. Weapons that are routinely fired into populous areas of Israel. SO, when someone sides against their own government in Israel, they are endangering their own neck, under the mistaken idea that you can negotiate peace with those animals. (Hamas)It’s not the same. Jews can have serious reservations about whatever the current government in power there is doing. Not just Jews in the Diaspora, but also Jews in Israel.
Not all Jews kneel before Netanyahu as his right-wing supporters do. There are a number of political parties in Israel. Some, both leftist and conservative parties, do NOT side with current Israeli government policies. Unless you claim that Netanyahu = Israel, there is no problem with them not siding with him, with being “anti-Israel.”
Heck, there are Americans today, believe it or not, who do not side with our current Administration. Amazing. Siding against America.
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Aquinas62
Guest
I don’t intend on walking to the lions den peacefully…
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Yellow_Belle
Guest
Wasn’t addressing you.
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Kadaveri
Guest
Why is it that in order to try and justify Israel’s policies people need to invent fantasties out of thin air? Even Israel is not claiming the ships were trying to deliver weapons.
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