Debaptism?

[ThomasToo]

Hopefully this is the proper forum for this and I would like to state in advance that I do not mean to create scandal (in the technical or vernacular sense) or strife for the members of this forum with my question. I would also like to note that I’m not writing to seek moral or metaphysical judgments about my (lack of) faith as I know that is in

As a bit of background I was raised Catholic, attended a Catholic high school and university and have a masters in moral theology from a Catholic university. I lost my faith–if I ever had any which is a question I’ve never been able to fully answer but I don’t think I really did, I was questioning basic assertions of the faith since I was in sacramental preparation for my first Communion. I have self-identified as an atheist for several years and am, to the best of my understanding, latae sententiae excommunicated per canon 1364. I would like, however, to have my defection noted and to be no longer counted as amongst the faithful (this is for a variety of reasons I do not think or germane to or appropriate for this venue) and want to know the best/proper way to do this.

Do I write a letter to the church in which I was baptized or send them a form [edited]? A recent columnist in The Stranger wrote an open letter to his (former) bishop asking to be excommunicated [edited]is such a letter–sent only to my former bishop as I do not have column inches to fill or such an axe to grind–proper? Am I on a fools errand and will be counted as a non-practicing Catholic by the USCCB until my death? I hope not and your (name removed by moderator)ut and advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your help and understanding.

 

[crazzeto]

Nothing you can do can “debaptise you”… If it makes you feel better, grave sin with full for knowlege and intent will in fact seperate you from the Body of Christ. It won’t remove your baptism, it will just increase culpibility for sin on judgment day, which if you are unrepentant at that time… Well lets just say you missed last call.

[edited]

 

[thistle]

Hopefully this is the proper forum for this and I would like to state in advance that I do not mean to create scandal (in the technical or vernacular sense) or strife for the members of this forum with my question. I would also like to note that I’m not writing to seek moral or metaphysical judgments about my (lack of) faith as I know that is in

As a bit of background I was raised Catholic, attended a Catholic high school and university and have a masters in moral theology from a Catholic university. I lost my faith–if I ever had any which is a question I’ve never been able to fully answer but I don’t think I really did, I was questioning basic assertions of the faith since I was in sacramental preparation for my first Communion. I have self-identified as an atheist for several years and am, to the best of my understanding, latae sententiae excommunicated per canon 1364. I would like, however, to have my defection noted and to be no longer counted as amongst the faithful (this is for a variety of reasons I do not think or germane to or appropriate for this venue) and want to know the best/proper way to do this.

Do I write a letter to the church in which I was baptized or send them a form [edited]A recent columnist in The Stranger wrote an open letter to his (former) bishop asking to be excommunicated [edited]is such a letter–sent only to my former bishop as I do not have column inches to fill or such an axe to grind–proper? Am I on a fools errand and will be counted as a non-practicing Catholic by the USCCB until my death? I hope not and your (name removed by moderator)ut and advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your help and understanding.

Baptism can never be erased.

CCC 1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation. Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.

 

[ThomasToo]

I understand that there is no sacrament of debaptism, as it were, but as I said above ‘I would like to have my defection noted and to be no longer counted as amongst the faithful.’ Is there any formalized way to do this?

Crazzeto, while grave sin is tempting it doesn’t actually accomplish what I am looking to do. And you can say, in the technical and theological sense, go to hell (as opposed to ‘missed last call.’) I’m neither offended nor upset by it. I know you mean it not as a threat but out of caring and Christian love.

 

[crazzeto]

I understand that there is no sacrament of debaptism, as it were, but as I said above ‘I would like to have my defection noted and to be no longer counted as amongst the faithful.’ Is there any formalized way to do this?

Crazzeto, while grave sin is tempting it doesn’t actually accomplish what I am looking to do. And you can say, in the technical and theological sense, go to hell (as opposed to ‘missed last call.’) I’m neither offended nor upset by it. I know you mean it not as a threat but out of caring and Christian love.

Always best to err on the side of Charity, anyway would you like to discuss your issues? After all, it’s not like you have any thing to lose right?

 

[Spirithound]

Noting the above responses, there is a process known as a “formal defection from the Church”. I’m not entirely sure what effect that has, or how to go about it.

 

[Joe_5859]

You can write a letter of formal defection either to the pastor of the parish you were baptized in, the pastor of the parish you most recently belonged to, the bishop of the diocese you were batized in, or the bishop of the diocese you currently reside in (or all of the above). They may place that letter in your file with your sacramental record.

Even so, you will still always be considered Catholic. I’m sure you understand this since you have all the educational background that you do. From the Catholic vantage point, Baptism places an indellible mark on your soul. That can never be taken away. Thus, from the Church’s perspective, you will always be a Catholic. A non-practicing and/or apostate Catholic perhaps, but a Catholic nonetheless.

 

[ThomasToo]

Even so, you will still always be considered Catholic. I’m sure you understand this since you have all the educational background that you do. From the Catholic vantage point, Baptism places an indellible mark on your soul. That can never be taken away. Thus, from the Church’s perspective, you will always be a Catholic. A non-practicing and/or apostate Catholic perhaps, but a Catholic nonetheless.

Isn’t that cheating when the USCCB claims to speak for me and those like me? Claims to speak for those people who devote their lives working against the Church on social issues (e.g. apostate Catholics who work for the ACLU or the Human Rights Campaign)?

 

[Bluegoat]

You can write a letter of formal defection either to the pastor of the parish you were baptized in, the pastor of the parish you most recently belonged to, the bishop of the diocese you were batized in, or the bishop of the diocese you currently reside in (or all of the above). They may place that letter in your file with your sacramental record.

Even so, you will still always be considered Catholic. I’m sure you understand this since you have all the educational background that you do. From the Catholic vantage point, Baptism places an indellible mark on your soul. That can never be taken away. Thus, from the Church’s perspective, you will always be a Catholic. A non-practicing and/or apostate Catholic perhaps, but a Catholic nonetheless.

But in this sense all baptized people are considered “Catholic”. He would not be subject to the discipline of the CC. So for example, if he married outside the CC it would not be invalid for lack of form.

 

[joandarc2008]

Isn’t that cheating when the USCCB claims to speak for me and those like me? Claims to speak for those people who devote their lives working against the Church on social issues (e.g. apostate Catholics who work for the ACLU or the Human Rights Campaign)?

No I believe when they speak for those of us that are still in communion withthe Church the USCCB usually refers to us as the faithful or the faithful among us or faithful Catholics or something to that effect. Regardless, I would also not say that it is cheating even if the implication was made as the other side has “Catholics for [insert Presidential Candidate here]” and it has been shown that the majority of these are not mass participating Catholics and therefore by the definition of moral sin not in communion with the Church either. I guess I would call it less cheating and more politicking. Besides, once you have the indellible mark of Baptism on your soul you are and always be drawn to this family whether or not realize it now. What do you think made you pursue a major in moral theology even though you had been quesitoning God since First Holy Communion?

Either way - even though I know it won’t mean much for you now I will offer a prayer for you to have an epiphany of your own. St Paul will you please intercede for this member of our Church who needs to find his way home?

 

[AJV]

But in this sense all baptized people are considered “Catholic”. He would not be subject to the discipline of the CC. So for example, if he married outside the CC it would not be invalid for lack of form.

It is considered invalid now, since November of last year.

 

[BenjaminLumen]

Hopefully this is the proper forum for this and I would like to state in advance that I do not mean to create scandal (in the technical or vernacular sense) or strife for the members of this forum with my question. I would also like to note that I’m not writing to seek moral or metaphysical judgments about my (lack of) faith as I know that is in

As a bit of background I was raised Catholic, attended a Catholic high school and university and have a masters in moral theology from a Catholic university. I lost my faith–if I ever had any which is a question I’ve never been able to fully answer but I don’t think I really did, I was questioning basic assertions of the faith since I was in sacramental preparation for my first Communion. I have self-identified as an atheist for several years and am, to the best of my understanding, latae sententiae excommunicated per canon 1364. I would like, however, to have my defection noted and to be no longer counted as amongst the faithful (this is for a variety of reasons I do not think or germane to or appropriate for this venue) and want to know the best/proper way to do this.

Do I write a letter to the church in which I was baptized or send them a form [edited]? A recent columnist in The Stranger wrote an open letter to his (former) bishop asking to be excommunicated [edited]is such a letter–sent only to my former bishop as I do not have column inches to fill or such an axe to grind–proper? Am I on a fools errand and will be counted as a non-practicing Catholic by the USCCB until my death? I hope not and your (name removed by moderator)ut and advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your help and understanding.

You could become Bhudist, and we will get back to you. No No your not
as odd as you imagine yourself to be, We need Atheists working for Bhuda. That we
feel is still allowing you to have a positive effect for the Roman Catholic Church. You just
have to think about it backwards, since you have assumed the title of Atheist…

If your going to be a negative force feigning nuetrality in the Universe then please do feel free to identify yourself with any of the organizations that the Catholic Church is infiltrating and we will then use you in a reverse sort of sense. We know millions like you, and we even have an entire Ancient Tome written by Monks about People who want to serve Christ in the negative sense…

See the problem is , You know your Baptism is valid, which means that you know that you do believe in God.

Or you can Try the ACME Liberal Arts Institute De-Programmer Chair, designed by Myself. This puppy rids the psyche of Liberalism,Socialism,Atheism,Poly-Theism, and the writings of Mao,Trotsky,Marx,Engals,Hitler, and Malcom J. Sloan.

Well I used to own ACME, very Privately but last year I sold the ACME Company to the Vatican Bank for funds that I am now using in another Enterprise. So the Vatican Owns ACME.

Let me Guess, You are a recent graduate of a University situated somewhere north of the Mason Dixon Line and East of the Mississippi River. WE CAN HELP. ACME Prides itself in its designs, and they are 100% Gaurenteed Enjoying Full Backing by the Vatican.

After a Few Sessions in our Chair, you will have absolutely NO memory of many of your professors or their rhetoric, there effects on your psyche and psychology will be gone forever. And you will then find yourself Free to Resume your Life for Christ and the Roman Catholic Church. Do not fear…

After a Few Sessions, you will Enjoy Yankee’s Baseball, Popcorn, Hotdogs, Apple Pie, and Mass, your memories of Yogi Barra, Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth will make you smile, Lou Gherig will make you cry. You will find yourself shopping for Baseball’s , Gloves, Bats, and Yankee’s Hats and Jersey’s… You will stop to look into the freezer endcap at the grocery story for Mrs. Smith Apple Pies…

We can Help you…

You have come to the right place…

Love Eternally
Jesus, Catholic Answers, and The ACME Company.

 

[jmcrae]

Am I on a fools errand and will be counted as a non-practicing Catholic by the USCCB until my death? I hope not and your (name removed by moderator)ut and advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your help and understanding.

Assuming you never attempt to become active in the Church again, whatever you are doing right now is just fine, from a material point of view. I assume that’s all that concerns you, at the moment.

The only way anyone would ever challenge your putative marriage or your other lifestyle choices would be if you were to try to take up the lifestyle of a Catholic again at some point in the future.

 

[BenjaminLumen]

Repeat after me,

The Great Bambino LOVES HotDogs, and Beer. Repeat this 100 times a day.

Also I want you to memorize these lines and repeat them daily…

I am ThomasTOO, I am a Million-aire, I own a Mansion and a yacht, I Love Jesus and
I go to Mass. repeat this 100 times daily…

 

[BenjaminLumen]

STEP RIGHT UP STEP RIGHT UP:
SEE THE 8TH NATURAL WONDER OF THE MODERN WORLD…

THOMASTOO, SEE THIS MODERN MIRACLE, GO FROM CATHOLICISM THROUGH A UNIVERSITY TRANSFORMATION AND EMERGE AS AN ATHEIST, THAT’S RIGHT LADIES AND GERMS AN ATHEIST…

YOU WILL BE AGHAST, YOU WILL BE ASTOUNDED…

TICKETS … TICKETS RIGHT HERE…GET YOUR TICKETS…

Don’t worry Thomastoo we are professionals… All the brilliance you experienced in your university is nill compared to US, the Roman Catholic Church… That is right, We are more brilliant… WE will literally removed years it would take for your wisdom to catch up to what you have been tought in your university.

Can you help this women she seems to have fainted…

In the tent:
Thomas Too behind a Cage chained to the floor… a Priest starts talking…
Ladies and Gentleman , I present you the Great Pope Benedict XVI, thats right Ladies
and Gentleman, Pope Benedict is going to cast the Great Satan himself out of Thomastoo here…

People watch astounded as the Pope praying Veni Creatus Spiritus USING the FINGER OF GOD, casts the university implanted Devil out of Thomastoo…

Another Priests opens the gates of Hell and Thomastoo’s devil is delivered into Firey Destruction… The crowd goes “AAWWWE.”

The Priest closes the Gate of Hell…

Thomastoo collapses on the floor… The Carnival barker comes over, “Don’t worry Lad, you will be allright momentarily.”

HUG, Jesus Loves you Son, remember that…

Love,
Jesus

 

[1ke]

To formally defect and have a notation in your sacramental record requires you to write to your bishop explaining your defection and asking to be so noted. However, the bishop also has to *accept *your defection. If he does, it will be placed in the sacramental record.

Of course, should you want to return, this can be remedied through an action of the Bishop and the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

By virtue of your baptism, you will always be Catholic.

Isn’t that cheating when the USCCB claims to speak for me and those like me?

The USCCB, the Vatican, the Bishop, etc do not claim to speak for you individually, they speak for the Church corporately.

You are a member of that Church, regardless of how you self-identify.

Claims to speak for those people who devote their lives working against the Church on social issues (e.g. apostate Catholics who work for the ACLU or the Human Rights Campaign)?

What they actually do is speak the truth to whomever is listening. In a case of a fallen away Catholic, they do so in hopes of reconciliation to help them on the path to holiness.

 

[jmcrae]

STEP RIGHT UP STEP RIGHT UP:
SEE THE 8TH NATURAL WONDER OF THE MODERN WORLD…

THOMASTOO, SEE THIS MODERN MIRACLE, GO FROM CATHOLICISM THROUGH A UNIVERSITY TRANSFORMATION AND EMERGE AS AN ATHEIST, THAT’S RIGHT LADIES AND GERMS AN ATHEIST…

YOU WILL BE AGHAST, YOU WILL BE ASTOUNDED…

TICKETS … TICKETS RIGHT HERE…GET YOUR TICKETS…

:yawn: I’ve seen this show before - it was boring the last time, too. uch:

 

[DeOppressoLiber]

OP
Though not trying to belittle the quandary that you’re in: if you truly don’t believe, what’s it matter? What’s the point?

I converted from the Methodist church many years ago. I don’t believe in their teachings, and haven’t for some time. I feel no need to go find some authority within the Methodist community and make some “statement of defection” or such.

I am curious why you feel such a need in your situation. While not trying to be rude, from what we’re given here, it sounds more like a need for some form of immature rebellion against a system you grew up in.

Most people who no longer wish to associate with a given group or philosophy etc… simply walk away, and are done with it. This public type denial, or whatever it is your looking for, one usually only sees when someone is doing it to fit with a political or social movement.

 

[Joe_5859]

Isn’t that cheating when the USCCB claims to speak for me and those like me? Claims to speak for those people who devote their lives working against the Church on social issues (e.g. apostate Catholics who work for the ACLU or the Human Rights Campaign)?

It’s not cheating. As 1ke said, they speak for the Church corporately, not for each end every individual who has ever been baptized.

If you think about it, it’s simply a necessary corollary of the Church’s teaching on Baptism. If you could be “debaptized”, then that sort of undermines the concept of a permanent mark on the soul that comes with Baptism.

But in this sense all baptized people are considered “Catholic”. He would not be subject to the discipline of the CC. So for example, if he married outside the CC it would not be invalid for lack of form.

Not according to the recent changes to Canon Law in Benedict’s motu proprio Omnium in Mentem. The “and has not left it by a formal act” exceptions have all been taken out of the Code of Canon Law as regards marriage. Thus, all Baptized Catholics are bound to follow Canon Law in order to marry validly in the eyes of the Church, whether or not they are practicing.

 

[BenjaminLumen]

Seriously Thomastoo, I think you got a fish man.

Ben wipes the smile off his face, “I think its a fish Thomas.”

Start praying for whomever that is, that you got, because you are not likely to be an Atheist, I feel that you got someone from your university that is an atheist however, so start praying for them. Is there someone around you that you know of , that is an Atheist??

Now you can put all that Catholic Theology to work for youself, and complete your transformation to Priest.

Bless you Thomas,
Benjamin