Debaptism?

[malphono]

They don’t use baptismal records in “counting” anyway. People die, move, sometimes have legal changes of name, etc etc., so those records are meaningless for the purpose of a census. What they would for “counting” are parish registrations, and I don’t think that’s an issue here.

 

[BenjaminLumen]

I am thuroughly disgusted by what University’s induce in our youth sometimes.

I can gaurentee you this Thomas, that problem is somewhere in your university setting,
I don’t really think its you, because you showed up here on Catholic Answers, If you are that well versed in Doctrine that you can site me Paragraph, and you know that your Ex-communicated, and you know that they spirit can do this…

I wouldn’t do anymore thinking until I went to confession.
You are in Mortal Sin, that little horned critter is about your environs somewhere.

Go to confession , give a complete confession of your University years, and then pick back up your thought process.

 

[ThomasToo]

You could become Bhudist, and we will get back to you.

FYI, it’s Buddha. I’m sure you wouldn’t like it if someone said Jeeshus; afford Buddhist the same respect.

Let me Guess, You are a recent graduate of a University situated somewhere north of the Mason Dixon Line and East of the Mississippi River. WE CAN HELP. ACME Prides itself in its designs, and they are 100% Gaurenteed Enjoying Full Backing by the Vatican.

I suppose the Catholic University of America fulfill that description… It’s actually their Thomistic theology program (for undergrads) that started me on this trip; nothing like reading, learning and questioning.

You are a member of that Church, regardless of how you self-identify.

This is the problem I am trying to remedy.

OP
Though not trying to belittle the quandary that you’re in: if you truly don’t believe, what’s it matter? What’s the point?

I don’t want the Church to have any claim on me as a member for reasons detailed in the crossposting of this topic.

Seriously Thomastoo, I think you got a fish man.
Start praying for whomever that is, that you got, because you are not likely to be an Atheist, I feel that you got someone from your university that is an atheist however, so start praying for them. Is there someone around you that you know of , that is an Atheist??

No, there’s not. I am alone amongst my (almost entirely Catholic) friends in this. I wasn’t told by any of my faculty there was no god–kind of a no no at CUA–I have come to this conclusion on my own and frankly resent the implication you and others have been making that university has brainwashed me into this conclusion. I am and always have been a freethinker much to my (very Catholic) parents’ chagrin and this is the answer I’ve come to as a result of questioning what were for a long time fundamental assumptions of my metaphysics.

 

[ThomasToo]

I am thuroughly disgusted by what University’s induce in our youth sometimes.

I can gaurentee you this Thomas, that problem is somewhere in your university setting,
I don’t really think its you, because you showed up here on Catholic Answers, If you are that well versed in Doctrine that you can site me Paragraph, and you know that your Ex-communicated, and you know that they spirit can do this…

I wouldn’t do anymore thinking until I went to confession.
You are in Mortal Sin, that little horned critter is about your environs somewhere.

Go to confession , give a complete confession of your University years, and then pick back up your thought process.

See above. My university years (including my MA surrounded by seminarians) were–while not spotless–rather tame as things go; I’m still a virgin, have never done drugs and have never been drunk (in or out of university). Again, as said above, I came to this conclusion after reading Aristotle and Aquinas (amongst others) and thinking about what I read then realizing that I had no reason to agree with them, at least on this point.

 

[Layp3rs0n]

Am I the only one who feels sickened by this whole concept? This man has explicitly stated several posts ago he intends to “work against the Church”. It may be horrible to walk away from Our Lord, but in doing this…to choose to actively work against Him, has stated he is our enemy. He will be doing the work of Satan. Sir, you are not an atheist if this is the case. You are a God hater. Woe to you if you choose this path.

 

[ThomasToo]

Am I the only one who feels sickened by this whole concept? This man has explicitly stated several posts ago he intends to “work against the Church”. It may be horrible to walk away from Our Lord, but in doing this…to choose to actively work against Him, has stated he is our enemy. He will be doing the work of Satan. Sir, you are not an atheist if this is the case. You are a God hater. Woe to you if you choose this path.

For what it’s worth I would hardly say I’m working against your Lord. I would grant I’d be working against your Church but to quote Ghandi, ‘I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.’ If Jesus was a real person and said the things he said in the Gospels (mod miracles, cf. The Life and Moral Teachings of Jesus of Nazareth by Thomas Jefferson) then he would probably be horrified by what the Catholic Church (or most of Christianity for that matter) has become.

 

[Joe_5859]

Benjamin Lumen, no offense, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what you’re saying in your posts.

 

[crazzeto]

For what it’s worth I would hardly say I’m working against your Lord. I would grant I’d be working against your Church but to quote Ghandi, ‘I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.’ If Jesus was a real person and said the things he said in the Gospels (mod miracles, cf. The Life and Moral Teachings of Jesus of Nazareth by Thomas Jefferson) then he would probably be horrified by what the Catholic Church (or most of Christianity for that matter) has become.

Please provide direct quotes, thanks

 

[jmcrae]

For what it’s worth I would hardly say I’m working against your Lord. I would grant I’d be working against your Church but to quote Ghandi, ‘I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.’ If Jesus was a real person and said the things he said in the Gospels (mod miracles, cf. The Life and Moral Teachings of Jesus of Nazareth by Thomas Jefferson) then he would probably be horrified by what the Catholic Church (or most of Christianity for that matter) has become.

Got any specifics on that?

 

[Layp3rs0n]

For what it’s worth I would hardly say I’m working against your Lord. I would grant I’d be working against your Church but to quote Ghandi, ‘I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.’ If Jesus was a real person and said the things he said in the Gospels (mod miracles, cf. The Life and Moral Teachings of Jesus of Nazareth by Thomas Jefferson) then he would probably be horrified by what the Catholic Church (or most of Christianity for that matter) has become.

Insolence! “Whoever is not with Me is against Me, and whoever does not gather with Me scatters.” You choose to work against the Church of God and thus, against the work of Christ. In working against Christ you work to condemn souls. Turn from the lies that Satan is telling you!

 

[lon]

I must confess that I’m a little puzzled that someone who claims to have an advanced theology degree from a Catholic University wouldn’t know how to leave the Church, or at least be able to find out how to do so from a reliable source, rather than going online in an internet forum, Catholic or otherwise. (Perhaps this is a commentary on the sad state of Catholic higher education).

However, without commenting further on such side issues, surely the relevant information is to be found in the Code of Canon Law. I refer you to the discussion in The Code of Canon Law: A Text and Commentary, Commissioned by the Canon Law Society of America. I don’t intend to type out the entire text or try to find an online source, but it is easily found in Catholic libraries, etc. One could also contact a canon lawyer if in doubt, since there is apparently some question of “what constitutes a formal act of leaving the Church” in certain cases.

The commentary on page 122 specifically states that while still bound by Catholic law in general, those who leave the Church by a formal act are no longer bound to the canonical form of marriage and are not bound by the impediment of disparity of cult.

–
Lon

 

[ThomasToo]

Please provide direct quotes, thanks

I don’t know the source off the top of my head. Some digging has revealed the quote may be apocryphal.

 

[crazzeto]

I don’t know the source off the top of my head. Some digging has revealed the quote may be apocryphal.

Then i would suggest that the very real Jesus Christ didn’t state what is claimed. This can be the danger when quoting non-sanctioned sources, particularly those who so completely misunderstood scripture (Thomans Jefferson).

Can I challenge you to read the Gosple of Matthew, then say John? Even if you have read them previously, it’s abundently clear a rereading would be profitable. See how that jives with Catholic doctrine.

 

[ThomasToo]

Then i would suggest that the very real Jesus Christ didn’t state what is claimed. This can be the danger when quoting non-sanctioned sources, particularly those who so completely misunderstood scripture (Thomans Jefferson).

Can I challenge you to read the Gosple of Matthew, then say John? Even if you have read them previously, it’s abundently clear a rereading would be profitable. See how that jives with Catholic doctrine.

Oh, I’m sorry for the confusion. I thought you were asking me to cite my Ghandi quote.

An easy one would be ‘Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me”’ (Matthew 19.21). Similar sentiments are found in Matthew 6:20 and Luke 12:33 and 16:9.

There’s also one of my personal favorites ‘If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters–yes, even his own life–he cannot be my disciple’ (Luke 14:26).

 

[ThomasToo]

I must confess that I’m a little puzzled that someone who claims to have an advanced theology degree from a Catholic University wouldn’t know how to leave the Church, or at least be able to find out how to do so from a reliable source, rather than going online in an internet forum, Catholic or otherwise. (Perhaps this is a commentary on the sad state of Catholic higher education).

My degree is in moral theology not ecclesiology (sp?) or systematics. As my initial post indicated there were a couple of methods I’ve found and wasn’t sure which was most proper.

 

[Joe_5859]

The commentary on page 122 specifically states that while still bound by Catholic law in general, those who leave the Church by a formal act are no longer bound to the canonical form of marriage and are not bound by the impediment of disparity of cult.

That may have been a valid interpretation of Canon Law when the Commentary was written, but as of October 26, 2009, this is no longer the case. Look at Omnium in Mentem.

 

[cctabb]

Thomas, I would respectfully ask that you wait 5 years before writing any letters or otherwise do anything official to be removed from the church. Please. If you feel this strongly about the matter at hand, then waiting will change nothing but your official status. And if you feel the same in 5 years, write your letters.

 

[ThomasToo]

Thomas, I would respectfully ask that you wait 5 years before writing any letters or otherwise do anything official to be removed from the church. Please. If you feel this strongly about the matter at hand, then waiting will change nothing but your official status. And if you feel the same in 5 years, write your letters.

How many times do I wait five years? If I came here in 2015–on my hoverboard I hope–asking for the current procedure isn’t it possible someone else will tell me the same thing? I know what you mean and this is not something I plan on doing on a whim but if I do make the decision to do this, after much thought, I’d like to know how hence the information gathering.

 

[crazzeto]

Oh, I’m sorry for the confusion. I thought you were asking me to cite my Ghandi quote.

An easy one would be ‘Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me”’ (Matthew 19.21). Similar sentiments are found in Matthew 6:20 and Luke 12:33 and 16:9.

And no organization in the world does as much for the poor than the CC, so your point isn’t as strong as you think.

There’s also one of my personal favorites ‘If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters–yes, even his own life–he cannot be my disciple’ (Luke 14:26).

And again, how does this invalidate the Church?

Luk 14:26 Hate not, &c. The law of Christ does not allow us to hate even our enemies, much less our parents: but the meaning of the text is, that we must be in the at disposition of soul so as to be willing to renounce and part with every thing, how near or dear soever it may be to us, that would keep us from following Christ. (Challoner) — The word hate is not to be taken in its proper sense, but to be expounded by the words of Christ, (Matthew x. 37.) that no man must love his father more than God, &c. (Witham) — Christ wishes to shew us what dispositions are necessary in him who desires to become his disciple; (Theophylactus) and to teach us that we must not be discouraged, if we meet with many hardships and labours in our journey to our heavenly country. (St. Gregory) — And if for our sakes, Christ even renounced his own mother, saying, Who is my mother, and who are my brethren? why do you wish to be treated more delicately than your Lord? (St. Ambrose) — He wished also to demonstrate to us, that the hatred he here inculcates, is not to proceed from any disaffection towards our parents, but from charity for ourselves; for immediately he adds, and his own life also. From which words it is evident, that in our love we must hate our brethren as we do ourselves.

Referenced Scripture Mat X:37

Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me.

 

[Joe_5859]

Thomas,

I’m really out of advice for your original question beyond “write to the bishop and see what he says.” But since the conversation has turned to other areas, do you mind if I ask how recent is your shift from faith to atheism?

I won’t try to argue you back into the faith. You have the educational background already. I would just say, from my personal experience, that what has made the difference for me hasn’t been the knowledge but the personal encounter with Christ. That is the source of my conviction. All the theology and metaphysics and what-have-you have bolstered my faith by removing intellectual obstacles, but the source of my faith is Jesus Himself. That’s something none of us here can really give you in a post.

I know you don’t believe in it anymore, but I’ll say a prayer for you nonetheless. If you ever feel up for it, please pray for me, too. I could use all the help I can get!