Debate circumcision ethics call

[LemonAndLime]

When an infant can go out, get a job, and pay the rent, then you can talk to me about autonomy. Until then, I make the decisions for my kids.

Including putting them through an unnecessary medical procedure?

So, why can’t I cut off my child’s ear lobes? I mean, I make the decisions, and I’ve just started a cult of my own.

 

[JMJSHJ]

Including putting them through an unnecessary medical procedure?

So, why can’t I cut off my child’s ear lobes? I mean, I make the decisions, and I’ve just started a cult of my own.

So despite any health benefits to circumcision, it has be to banned because of religious considerations?

 

[JMJSHJ]

End of discussion as far as I am concerned**. If the boys don’t like their skinless weinies, they should sue their parents.** Then they would have to prove that they suffered loss and that the parents did it with willful intend to harm. In other words, nothing.

The evidence is still split on the health benefits of circumcision. I had my sons clipped. I get no complaints.

Emphasis mine. Thanks for a great laugh today Scott!!!

 

[LemonAndLime]

So despite any health benefits to circumcision, it has be to banned because of religious considerations?

As I have demonstrated before (see previous posts) the health benefits to circumcision can be achieved simply by good hygiene.

 

[Carolus_Martell]

…just another political work around or interference format to slowly end Abraham’s covenant with God.

 

[DaveBj]

With regard to the issue of sexual stimulation, and with all due respect to previous posters, the only ones who are competent to express an opinion on this subject are those who were circ’ed after they had become sexually active adults. I was, in the 4th year of my marriage, and now 37 years later, if I had awakened this morning to find that the flap of skin had grown back, I’d be on the phone to my urologist to schedule its second removal,.

I am not going to get into the advisability of infant circumcision.

 

[Joe_5859]

Does anyone else think we’re crossing the line into “medical advice” territory with this thread?

 

[rayne89]

Circumcision is barbaric. Those who think it’s “good” for newborns to be circumcised have never heard the little one scream when he’s cut. I have and it’s a horrible, heartbreaking sound, and I wonder about the women who allow this atrocity to be committed on their own newborn sons.

Hyperbole aside, it’s a wretched thing to do to a baby.

Infants scream when their blood is taken too. I know because I witnessed it with it with my daughter. So I guess we won’t take their blood either. Taking blood is hardly torturous. They also scream when their ears are peirced as I witnessed when my friend’s daughter had her ears pierced as an infant. Again ear piercing is not an atrocity - I had it done in my tweens so I know it stings but its not torture.

People should be allowed to have their son’s circumcised if they chose. You’ll be happy to know I was not blessed with a son. If I had, he would have been.

 

[Cristiano]

I think that all boys should undergo circumcision but at a much later age. I think that they should be circumcised as soon as they become interested in sexual activities. That for sure will promote at least temporary chastity.

I think that I need to talk to my son about scheduling his surgery.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I think that all boys should undergo circumcision but at a much later age. I think that they should be circumcised as soon as they become interested in sexual activities. That for sure will promote at least temporary chastity.

I think that I need to talk to my son about scheduling his surgery.

I think the father of every daughter should own a mohel’s knife (izmel).

 

[SamTheNewfie]

Again ear piercing is not an atrocity - I had it done in my tweens so I know it stings but its not torture.

Circumcision is not analogous to ear piercing. It is more comparable to surgically removing the ear lobes.

People should be allowed to have their son’s circumcised if they chose. You’ll be happy to know I was not blessed with a son. If I had, he would have been.

Should I be able to have my daughter’s clitoral hood(female equivalent of the foreskin) surgically removed as well?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Circumcision is not analogous to ear piercing. It is more comparable to surgically removing the ear lobes.

Should I be able to have my daughter’s clitoral hood(female equivalent of the foreskin) surgically removed as well?

Can you show us some documentation of the preventive health benefits of removing the earlobes and the clitoral hood? Okay thanks.

 

[LemonAndLime]

Does anyone else think we’re crossing the line into “medical advice” territory with this thread?

No, because we’re not giving people medical advice.

Some have attempted to say it has medical benefits, but I have illistrated that the same can be achieved by good hygiene.

The debate has now centered around whether it’s justified for religious reasons.

 

[SamTheNewfie]

Can you show us some documentation of the preventive health benefits of removing the earlobes and the clitoral hood? Okay thanks.

It’s only common sense that removing the ear lobes elimates the possibility of them getting frost bite. Of course you could just wear ear muffs, but the “potential” benefits of circumcision can be achieved through less invasive means as European men prove.

 

[LemonAndLime]

Can you show us some documentation of the preventive health benefits of removing the earlobes and the clitoral hood? Okay thanks.

In line with the benefits of circumcision -

By removing the foreskin/earlobes/clitoral hood, you prevent the foreskin/earlobes becoming inflammed or infected because they’re not there!

By removing the foreskin/earlobes/clitoral hood, you can decrease the risk of hygiene-related infections as they’re not there to clean.

Note: in female circumcision as practiced in most African countries, the entire external genitalia of the woman is removed so that all is left is one hole for peeing, and another for sex. This completely removes all pleasure for women in sex, as it’s believed it’s sinful for a woman to have pleasure as they should remain virgins forever.

Some practice “sewing” up the woman’s vagina to make it smaller and less flexible, so that men have more pleasure. A friend of mine is a midwife and she examined a woman who was pregnant, and told her that the stitches had to be removed prior to childbirth. This poor woman was surprised, and requested that it be sewn up after. The midwife explained it was illegal. The woman said it would happen anyway, it was expecting of her. This was in the UK.

 

[rayne89]

Circumcision is not analogous to ear piercing. It is more comparable to surgically removing the ear lobes.

Should I be able to have my daughter’s clitoral hood(female equivalent of the foreskin) surgically removed as well?

I don’t want to get to graphic here. My husband has been circ’d. Clearly, from the twenty years I’ve been with him -it has not hindered or harmed him in any way. I do know of a neighbor’s child who had to be circ’d at nine because of an infection. She swore any further male children would be circ’d at birth.

It’s now not PC to circumcise. It’s a religious prejudice against those who do it for religious reasons which makes it particularly heinous to try and outlaw it.
And its the usual “parents are too stupid to parent their own children.”

 

[jilly4ski]

The slight increased risk of UTIs can be avoided by keeping it clean and the child well-hydrated. UTIs are hardly life threatening either.

The NHS is not there to provide surgery which is not considered necessary on the basis of religion.

I just wanted to clarify, a UTI can be life threatening. In infants, parents have a difficult time recognizing the signs of the UTI, since the babies can’t tell you what hurts, which can lead to fever, bladder infection, and kidney infection. Also in men, the signs of a UTI are different than in a woman. My father had to spend time in the hospital because of a UTI, that went undiagnosed and untreated for several days.

Also how easy do you think it is to clean that area on a baby (or have a young child do it)? It is difficult even on a circumcised boy, they squirm and cry and get their hands in the way. The smegma sticks and is very difficult to remove (can even be painful), thus making cleaning even more difficult.

 

[SamTheNewfie]

I just wanted to clarify, a UTI can be life threatening. In infants, parents have a difficult time recognizing the signs of the UTI, since the babies can’t tell you what hurts, which can lead to fever, bladder infection, and kidney infection. Also in men, the signs of a UTI are different than in a woman. My father had to spend time in the hospital because of a UTI, that went undiagnosed and untreated for several days.

Also how easy do you think it is to clean that area on a baby (or have a young child do it)? It is difficult even on a circumcised boy, they squirm and cry and get their hands in the way. The smegma sticks and is very difficult to remove (can even be painful), thus making cleaning even more difficult.

An intact penis requires zero more care than a circumcised one. You are not supposed to even retract the foreskin of an infant. Again, people love to throw out horror stories of how dangerous it is to leave a boy intact, but ironically most of these people are American. You just don’t see increased complications in European men. By the way some people talk you’d expect the child mortality rate there to be ten times that of ours.

 

[SamTheNewfie]

It’s now not PC to circumcise. It’s a religious prejudice against those who do it for religious reasons which makes it particularly heinous to try and outlaw it.
And its the usual “parents are too stupid to parent their own children.”

The whole “intactivists are anti-semitic” line is just an ad hominem from those who don’t have an real response to the fact that the rest of the world is doing just fine without routinely cutting off healthy tissue from infants. The VAST majority of Americans do not circumcise for religious reasons. Jews are hardly being singled out. By such a logic anyone who is against female circumcision(some forms of which are equivalent or less invasive than MC) is anti-African.

 

[rlg94086]

The difference is that for breast surgery and gender-changing surgery in the UK, you have to be 18 or over, thus able to consent to it yourself.

With a baby being circumsiced, they are unable to consent, it’s done only for religious reasons and not for medical.

Hold up…does the government in the UK perform these medically unnecessary surgeries? If so, then your arguement regarding circumcision falls flat.

Btw…I’m not pro-circumcision - three boys and none circumcised yet. The jury is still out on the youngest one (6 mos). He is scheduled to see a urologist this month to determine if he needs to have it done.