Debate circumcision ethics call

[SamTheNewfie]

Here is a pretty enlightening video that explains why RIC is so prevelant here compared to the rest of world and sheds light why there is so much misinformation surrounding the issue:
youtube.com/watch?v=ZSM-SkwGEf0

 

[jilly4ski]

An intact penis requires zero more care than a circumcised one. You are not supposed to even retract the foreskin of an infant. Again, people love to throw out horror stories of how dangerous it is to leave a boy intact, but ironically most of these people are American. You just don’t see increased complications in European men. By the way some people talk you’d expect the child mortality rate there to be ten times that of ours.

I am just saying, studies show that UTI’s are more prevalent in intact men. UTI’s occur because of a build up in bacteria from smegma, dirt, dirty diapers, etc. Wouldn’t you have to retract the foreskin if it got dirty? Everyone was saying that poor hygiene causes UTI’s and if you don’t clean there isn’t that poor hygiene?

 

[LemonAndLime]

I am just saying, studies show that UTI’s are more prevalent in intact men. UTI’s occur because of a build up in bacteria from smegma, dirt, dirty diapers, etc. Wouldn’t you have to retract the foreskin if it got dirty? Everyone was saying that poor hygiene causes UTI’s and if you don’t clean there isn’t that poor hygiene?

You cannot retract the foreskin of a male baby until they’re at least a year old. It’s essentially glued to the penis. Attempting to pull it back will actually cause injury and infection itself.

 

[chosen_people]

If you are male and intend to go through tall grasslands with no clothes on, as man did in prehistoric times, it is indeed essential to not undergo circumcision. and to retain your foreskin.

The concept of circumcision represents not only man’s cultural and societal advancement but also the concept of man being an active participant with God in the completion of his creation. However, if you are the sort of person who spends his time walking naked through tall grasslands, such concepts will probably have no meaning for you.

For those Catholics who claim that any parent who circumcises their son is carrying out a brutal and immoral mutilation, it should be remembered that your messiah Jesus was circumcised. Do you believe therefore that God makes commandments to carry out brutal and immoral mutilations or perhaps you believe that the mother of Jesus brutally mutilated her son?

No one is forced to circumcise their male children.The movement to ban circumcision is the same movement to ban kosher Jewish ritual slaughter, or to not allow an eruv to be put up in a neighborhood or to not allow you to build a sukkah on your balcony, or to not allow you to add a minor extension to a synagogue. Ban the Jews ability to be Jews you ban the Jews.

 

[LemonAndLime]

If you are male and intend to go through tall grasslands with no clothes on, as man did in prehistoric times, it is indeed essential to not undergo circumcision. and to retain your foreskin.

The concept of circumcision represents not only man’s cultural and societal advancement but also the concept of man being an active participant with God in the completion of his creation. However, if you are the sort of person who spends his time walking naked through tall grasslands, such concepts will probably have no meaning for you.

For those Catholics who claim that any parent who circumcises their son is carrying out a brutal and immoral mutilation, it should be remembered that your messiah Jesus was circumcised. Do you believe therefore that God makes commandments to carry out brutal and immoral mutilations or perhaps you believe that the mother of Jesus brutally mutilated her son?

No one is forced to circumcise their male children.The movement to ban circumcision is the same movement to ban kosher Jewish ritual slaughter, or to not allow an eruv to be put up in a neighborhood or to not allow you to build a sukkah on your balcony, or to not allow you to add a minor extension to a synagogue. Ban the Jews ability to be Jews you ban the Jews.

The benefits of circumcision are equal to having good hygiene.

Why does it have to happen as a baby?

 

[chosen_people]

The benefits of circumcision are equal to having good hygiene.

Why does it have to happen as a baby?

Well of all the Jewish men I have talked to concerning our circumcision at the age of eight days, as God commanded (it’s not just a matter of hygiene or any other medical benefits) not a single one of us has any bad memories. Remarkably, as we are the ones who were supposedly mutilated and as Jewish men apparently haven’t enjoyed sex in the last 3500 years, you would think we would be leading the protest. However, this is not the case.

As this is a religious act for all Jews, and as you believe this is not a matter for parents but should be left until the child reaches the age of majority and is no longer a minor, I have no doubt you advocate a similar ruling in regard to Christian baptism (let’s not forget the case of the little Mortara boy and others).

 

[SamTheNewfie]

Christian baptism doesn’t irreveresibly remove healthy tissue from a non-consenting child. If it involved cutting off the ear lobes or tattooing a cross on the baby’s forehead I would be opposed until the age a child could consent.

 

[LemonAndLime]

Well of all the Jewish men I have talked to concerning our circumcision at the age of eight days, as God commanded (it’s not just a matter of hygiene or any other medical benefits) not a single one of us has any bad memories. Remarkably, as we are the ones who were supposedly mutilated and as Jewish men apparently haven’t enjoyed sex in the last 3500 years, you would think we would be leading the protest. However, this is not the case.

As this is a religious act for all Jews, and as you believe this is not a matter for parents but should be left until the child reaches the age of majority and is no longer a minor, I have no doubt you advocate a similar ruling in regard to Christian baptism (let’s not forget the case of the little Mortara boy and others).

Baptism is the parents making promises on behalf of the child. When the child reaches the age of reason, they have to be confirmed (where they make those promises themselves) in order to be validly in communion with the Church.

Those men protested about lack of sensation in sex have experienced before and after, so your argument about not protesting doesn’t make sense.

 

[rlg94086]

If you are male and intend to go through tall grasslands with no clothes on, as man did in prehistoric times, it is indeed essential to not undergo circumcision. and to retain your foreskin.

The concept of circumcision represents not only man’s cultural and societal advancement but also the concept of man being an active participant with God in the completion of his creation. However, if you are the sort of person who spends his time walking naked through tall grasslands, such concepts will probably have no meaning for you.

For those Catholics who claim that any parent who circumcises their son is carrying out a brutal and immoral mutilation, it should be remembered that your messiah Jesus was circumcised. Do you believe therefore that God makes commandments to carry out brutal and immoral mutilations or perhaps you believe that the mother of Jesus brutally mutilated her son?

No one is forced to circumcise their male children.The movement to ban circumcision is the same movement to ban kosher Jewish ritual slaughter, or to not allow an eruv to be put up in a neighborhood or to not allow you to build a sukkah on your balcony, or to not allow you to add a minor extension to a synagogue. Ban the Jews ability to be Jews you ban the Jews.

This thread is about whether circumcision should be a covered procedure, since it is optional. I haven’t read any posts that have mentioned banning it.

Well of all the Jewish men I have talked to concerning our circumcision at the age of eight days, as God commanded (it’s not just a matter of hygiene or any other medical benefits) not a single one of us has any bad memories. Remarkably, as we are the ones who were supposedly mutilated and as Jewish men apparently haven’t enjoyed sex in the last 3500 years, you would think we would be leading the protest. However, this is not the case.

As this is a religious act for all Jews, and as you believe this is not a matter for parents but should be left until the child reaches the age of majority and is no longer a minor, I have no doubt you advocate a similar ruling in regard to Christian baptism (let’s not forget the case of the little Mortara boy and others).

As soon as they start performing Baptisms in hospitals on a routine basis, we can address whether they should be covered financially.

 

[sanctareparata]

I am just saying, studies show that UTI’s are more prevalent in intact men. UTI’s occur because of a build up in bacteria from smegma, dirt, dirty diapers, etc. Wouldn’t you have to retract the foreskin if it got dirty? Everyone was saying that poor hygiene causes UTI’s and if you don’t clean there isn’t that poor hygiene?

Literature always likes to claim that the rate of UTIs are higher in intact boys than in circumcised boys, but they never actually quote the statistics.

UTIs in boys and men occur at a whole whopping ONE percent.

If a child is circumcised in order to lower his risk of UTI, then he has less than a one percent chance of a UTI.
If he remains intact, his risk of UTIs is…one percent.

Shocking, really, how misinformed people are (not particularly you, Jill).

circumstitions.com/Utis.html

And no, like another poster said, you are never supposed to retract infant/toddler foreskin. It’s fused together. That is what keeps the penis clean.

I do agree that it’s pretty hard to claim “medical benefits” as a reason for circumcision since every other country whose men are intact don’t have any medical issues. They don’t have higher rates of HIV, cervical cancer, penile cancer, etc. I have heard before that the rates of ever truly medically needing a circumcision is less than one half a percent.

I think a lot of medical “necessity” in America comes purely from US doctors not understanding the normal male penis, improper manipulation of it in the childhood years (forced retraction) and not realizing that there are other solutions for minor problems such as steroids, antibiotics, yeast creams, dorsal slits, etc when necessary without having to resort to a radical circumcision.

 

[sanctareparata]

I am of the mind, by the way, that govt should not interfere in anything religious, though we in this country do anyway since parents aren’t allowed to have their girls circumcised in the name of religion. At least not as of late.

A Catholic ethicist did speak on the ethics of routine circumcision.

 

[LemonAndLime]

I am of the mind, by the way, that govt should not interfere in anything religious, though we in this country do anyway since parents aren’t allowed to have their girls circumcised in the name of religion. At least not as of late.

A Catholic ethicist did speak on the ethics of routine circumcision.

That’s because female circumsition results in women experiencing 0 pleasure in sex, with the goal of keeping women virgins forever.

It’s a barbaric practice.

 

[sanctareparata]

That’s because female circumsition results in women experiencing 0 pleasure in sex, with the goal of keeping women virgins forever.

It’s a barbaric practice.

Wrong.

There are four types of female circumcision, and Types I and II are the most common.
Type I removes only the prepuce (which is the same exact biological piece of skin as is the foreskin. It’s the clitoral hood. And the female can most certainly still feel pleasure.

Type II removes the clitoris. The female can still feel pleasure and achieve orgasm as the nerves run very deep, and will remain even after the clitoris is removed.

Type III, which most people think of when they think of female circumcision, is the most uncommon, making up at most 20% of all circumcised women.

Did you know that when circumcision first became popular in America for non-Jewish people that the same doctors who advised male babies be cut to reduce their chances of masturbation also advised that girl babies have carbolic acid dripped onto their clitorises to burn them, and also deter them from masturbation? Circumcision started here because of mass masturbation hysteria. Didn’t work, though!

Did you know that there are more nerve endings in the foreskin, ridged band and frenulum than in the entire clitoris?

Did you know that the amount of skin removed from a male equals, in adulthood, the size of an index card? Twelve square inches? And that there are tens of thousands of fine touch nerve endings in that piece of skin, not to mention the nerves in the frenulum, which is equal in sensitivity to the woman’s clitoris?

Did you know that most circumcised girls LIKE being circumcised, can’t imagine life any other way, and are usually the parents insisting their own daughters be circumcised?

Did you know that there are health reasons for circumcising girls, too?

Did you know that a girl could be circumcised in America up until the late 1990s?

And did you know that last year, religious sects protested because all they wanted was a ritual NICK in the “foreskins” of their girls to abide by their religious practices, and the AAP was trying to promote it because of equal rights? It didn’t last long, of course, and they retracted their statement.

 

[LemonAndLime]

Actually there are more nerve endings in the clitloris than the male genitalia.

And the clitoris is the main part of the woman that is stimulated during sexual intercourse. Removal of that would certainly reduce pleasure drastically.

The health benefits are the same as for good hygiene.

Saying that “most girls like it” is a ridiculous argument as A) They don’t know better and B) They want it because of the religious significance, such as in places in Africa where women cannot get married unless they have it.

 

[sanctareparata]

Actually there are more nerve endings in the clitloris than the male genitalia.

And the clitoris is the main part of the woman that is stimulated during sexual intercourse. Removal of that would certainly reduce pleasure drastically.

Depends on what you read and how they present it. The female has 8000 nerve endings there. The penis alone has 4000, but that is the penis alone, not taking into account if the man is indeed intact. The foreskin has 10,000 to 20,000 nerve endings.

And removing the clitoris or the clitoral hood does not remove all the nerves associated with it. Women can and do still experience that pleasure.

The health benefits are the same as for good hygiene.

There are no health benefits for female genital mutilation Type I or Type II.

Saying that “most girls like it” is a ridiculous argument as A) They don’t know better and B) They want it because of the religious significance, such as in places in Africa where women cannot get married unless they have it.

I KNOW it’s ridiculous; I’m certainly not in favor of it!, but it is the same argument a lot of men have, too - not knowing any different, they like it that way.

 

[SamTheNewfie]

I KNOW it’s ridiculous; I’m certainly not in favor of it!, but it is the same argument a lot of men have, too - not knowing any different, they like it that way.

Exactly. The main difference is one is a societal norm here and the other is not.

 

[ItsLove]

Are there documented health benefits to cutting off earlobes? I’d like to see a reference on that. I’ll show you mine if you show me yours.

webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision

There is some evidence that circumcision has health benefits, including:

• A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
• A reduced risk of sexually transmitted diseases in men.
• Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
• Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
• Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).

Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean.

thewholenetwork.org/
go to this website. ACCURATE and UPDATED information proving all of your points wrong. It’s so sad people don’t educate themselves before cutting their helpless newborns.