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tgGodsway
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okay NotMyOwn. We can talk later.
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AnnetteJoan
Guest
Actually I don’t go looking for prots to debate, they seem to find me, lol.
I have a friend on Facebook who is a “Messianic Jew” (basically Jews who have become protestants)…I never try to convert anyone while posting to her page, but the minute the prot fundies on her friend list hear the dreaded word “Catholic” when they ask what “denomination” I belong to, their fangs come out and I am defending the true Faith.
I have a friend on Facebook who is a “Messianic Jew” (basically Jews who have become protestants)…I never try to convert anyone while posting to her page, but the minute the prot fundies on her friend list hear the dreaded word “Catholic” when they ask what “denomination” I belong to, their fangs come out and I am defending the true Faith.
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Kathleen18
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Do you absolutely have to debate them? Do you absolutely have to comment on your friends page?
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AnnetteJoan
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It doesn;t matter what the subject is, they remember I said I was Catholic and they find ways to inject the argument into every discussion.
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NotMyOwn
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Yeah… Sorry… 
That’s a complicated one I wish I could help you with, but it exceeds the scope of this post. You didn’t say anything about — or at least I didn’t see you mention — Messianic Jewish believers… They are a complex case, and disarming them takes skill, and likely a background in evangelical Protestantism with great love of the Jewish people and their role in Salvation and the relevant prophecies pertaining to the future integration of the Jewish people within the Church… and also a complex understanding of the relevant decrees of the Church in context of that… especially of the Bull of Union with the Copts. We have to agree that the rules and prescriptions in Ezekiel are not the Law of Moses, nor the Law of the Church, but a unique case for a unique period in Salvation history. Oh, this also connects with what was actually condemned when Chiliasm was condemned… (and what the Church actually does when it condemns a thing… like which pertains to the Miaphysites… who are now not regarded as Monophysites, and so not as heretics) and also what happens to most infants when they die and whether or not they get a free choice as to their eternal destination, and this also relates in complexity to the Wedding Feast and the destruction of space and time, and the breaches in it at the Lord’s Second Advent and the Destruction of this Heaven and Earth after a time period to provide a further opportunity for the Salvation of souls… namely in a “regeneration of the infants”, as Lazarus was not resurrected as Christ, so as never to die again, but was rather “regenerated.” This is my view, influenced by a number of biblical texts (and the views of such early Fathers as relate so directly with the Apostles and Apostolic Fathers as the Esteemed and Holy Father St. Irenaeus (spiritual son of the Venerable St. Polycarp, Bishop and Martyr, spiritual son of the Beloved and princely Apostle St. John himself)—from whom the Church knows and trusts that the Gospel of John was indeed written by the Beloved Apostles John the Theologian and the receiver of the Book of Revelation), the least of which is not Ezekiel 18. Sorry we can’t discuss this. It would take too much time, and as I said, exceed the scope of this text. And a Shabbat Shalom of the Church to you (since we have now entered into the rest of Christ in His Church) 
[you would probably have to be a Catholic with my particular views to inspire them and win them over significantly to the Church without God radically wrecking their lives and giving them the need for a religious reset]
I love that you’re Jewish Catholic <3 Grace and Shalom to you, sister. In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
That’s a complicated one I wish I could help you with, but it exceeds the scope of this post. You didn’t say anything about — or at least I didn’t see you mention — Messianic Jewish believers… They are a complex case, and disarming them takes skill, and likely a background in evangelical Protestantism with great love of the Jewish people and their role in Salvation and the relevant prophecies pertaining to the future integration of the Jewish people within the Church… and also a complex understanding of the relevant decrees of the Church in context of that… especially of the Bull of Union with the Copts. We have to agree that the rules and prescriptions in Ezekiel are not the Law of Moses, nor the Law of the Church, but a unique case for a unique period in Salvation history. Oh, this also connects with what was actually condemned when Chiliasm was condemned… (and what the Church actually does when it condemns a thing… like which pertains to the Miaphysites… who are now not regarded as Monophysites, and so not as heretics) and also what happens to most infants when they die and whether or not they get a free choice as to their eternal destination, and this also relates in complexity to the Wedding Feast and the destruction of space and time, and the breaches in it at the Lord’s Second Advent and the Destruction of this Heaven and Earth after a time period to provide a further opportunity for the Salvation of souls… namely in a “regeneration of the infants”, as Lazarus was not resurrected as Christ, so as never to die again, but was rather “regenerated.” This is my view, influenced by a number of biblical texts (and the views of such early Fathers as relate so directly with the Apostles and Apostolic Fathers as the Esteemed and Holy Father St. Irenaeus (spiritual son of the Venerable St. Polycarp, Bishop and Martyr, spiritual son of the Beloved and princely Apostle St. John himself)—from whom the Church knows and trusts that the Gospel of John was indeed written by the Beloved Apostles John the Theologian and the receiver of the Book of Revelation), the least of which is not Ezekiel 18. Sorry we can’t discuss this. It would take too much time, and as I said, exceed the scope of this text. And a Shabbat Shalom of the Church to you (since we have now entered into the rest of Christ in His Church) [you would probably have to be a Catholic with my particular views to inspire them and win them over significantly to the Church without God radically wrecking their lives and giving them the need for a religious reset]I love that you’re Jewish Catholic <3 Grace and Shalom to you, sister. In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
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Kathleen18
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Then simply ignore them and don’t always take the bait. If you must engage, a simple “no,” to their opinion works wonders.
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NotMyOwn
Guest
Yeah, what Kathleeen said, just wait for God to rattle the confidences of some of them in their ‘not a religion, a relationship’, mainly in the ability of a confederation—or less still, a philosophically-compatible type—of churches, without any authority to objecively bind believers to any objective collective growth in the Faith through history over time [and so be the Holy Temple of God that God is building in and with His People] (as promised in Scripture Daniel 9:24, Ephesians 4:13)… Wait for God to somewhat wreck their lives, and then come in then… but sensitively and in love… extending a loving hand of care, and to meet their spiritual needs.
Waiting until the right time also works wonders. Extend your net, and wait for them to swim into it, or the currents of the world to push them into it.
May we all learn to kiss the waves that push us up against the Rock of Ages… as we fall into Grace and into the Loving Arms of Yeshua in His Temple.
Waiting until the right time also works wonders. Extend your net, and wait for them to swim into it, or the currents of the world to push them into it.
May we all learn to kiss the waves that push us up against the Rock of Ages… as we fall into Grace and into the Loving Arms of Yeshua in His Temple.
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NotMyOwn
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Also, talk about Jesus as Yeshua with them. It works wonders how simply using a word different (in the Hebrew pronunciation) can help. That should help. (And maybe try to connect with those Messianic Catholics in Jerusalem and Israel and try to see what they’re doing right and imitate it.)
(This is all I have to contribute to this thread at this point.)
(This is all I have to contribute to this thread at this point.)
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steve-b
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That’s a contradiction in terms. Just say you’re Protestant.AnnetteJoan:
I am Catholic in terms of my Church network, but protestant in terms of my theology.
“Perfect unity” in Our Lord’s Church, the Catholic Church , with no division, schism, heresy from her is taught from scripture and Tradition and for 2000 years of Church history. You’ve been shown that proof all properly referenced, many times.
Catholics don’t strong arm anyone. We give information properly referenced, and what a person does with it is their business. But the information must be given when the opportunity presents itself.
Here’s why
Ez 3:
17 “Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me. 18 If I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 But if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you will have saved your life. 20 Again, if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die; because you have not warned him, he shall die for his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand. 21 Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man not to sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he took warning; and you will have saved your life.”
That advice is as good for Ezekiel in his day, as it is for us today and forever. That advice has no expiration date.
As it says, I’m not judged on successfully convincing anyone, only that I gave them the required information when the opportunity presented itself… what they do with it, is up to them, and the consequences either good or bad takes place for them
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Tis_Bearself
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Facebook has a “block” button. Whenever anybody I don’t know starts to hassle me about anything, I say buh-bye. Life’s too short.
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NotMyOwn
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Life is short; Separation from God is eternal. Sleep well at night.
(Now-now… There are times to block… But just because it’s an inconvenience or kind of stressful or we’re not seeing progress, doesn’t mean we’re not called to be involved. Sometimes there needs to be not just planting seeds, or watering, but tilling of soil. Tilling soil and taking rocks out takes longer, but it can be totally worth it.)
If Catholics thought using analogies like this more, and understood life and our role in the world according to Christ’s teaching, we’d be so much better off—our world too. And there’d be lots fewer true believers and followers of Christ outside of the Church, and we’d have the best of the believers, and ourselves and our families be stronger for it.
Sleep well at night.(Now-now… There are times to block… But just because it’s an inconvenience or kind of stressful or we’re not seeing progress, doesn’t mean we’re not called to be involved. Sometimes there needs to be not just planting seeds, or watering, but tilling of soil. Tilling soil and taking rocks out takes longer, but it can be totally worth it.)
If Catholics thought using analogies like this more, and understood life and our role in the world according to Christ’s teaching, we’d be so much better off—our world too. And there’d be lots fewer true believers and followers of Christ outside of the Church, and we’d have the best of the believers, and ourselves and our families be stronger for it.
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De_Maria
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I don’t think it’s that broad or sweeping. But I do think it’s getting better.
I can’t speak for anyone else. I know that Protestants are frequently offended by the things I say to them. But it’s said with good intentions. Wouldn’t you want to know if you’re headed down a road where the bridge is out?
Therefore, I have to warn you, the Catholic Church has the fullness of the Truth. And even Catholics are not guaranteed salvation. So, how much harder will it be for those who do not adhere to her Teaching?
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
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NotMyOwn
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Leave T alone!! We’ll talk later!! Guys!!
This might surprise you, but due to the extraordinary nature of the Protestant separation, and how extraordinarily crappy you all’s generations have done with Christian education in doctrine and explanation of those teachings and evidence for them I would argue since the 8th Century at the latest… he might not actually be in sin here. He might actually not be culpable due to lack of sufficient knowledge.
Your attacking him, if you knew any better, would be a terrible sin!! Listen to me! I’m going to talk with him later. Leave. Him. Alone.
Y’all are worse than Protestants sometimes!! Srsly… Smh
This might surprise you, but due to the extraordinary nature of the Protestant separation, and how extraordinarily crappy you all’s generations have done with Christian education in doctrine and explanation of those teachings and evidence for them I would argue since the 8th Century at the latest… he might not actually be in sin here. He might actually not be culpable due to lack of sufficient knowledge.
Your attacking him, if you knew any better, would be a terrible sin!! Listen to me! I’m going to talk with him later. Leave. Him. Alone.
Y’all are worse than Protestants sometimes!! Srsly… Smh
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Reuben_J
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It is not attacking the person but the idea. Besides, correct Catholic teaching needs to be said especially for lurking readers.
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De_Maria
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What? You don’t like apologetics?
Or are you joking?
Pretty good gag.
Or are you joking?
Pretty good gag.
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NotMyOwn
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I love apologetics. That’s why what you are doing with it appalls me.
I love apologetics, but I love the redemption and reunity of those separated from us more. I love truth, but I love mercy, and God, Who is Truth, does too. And that’s why telling people that they’re going to Hell, explicitly or implicitly, and attacking them, explicitly or implicitly, can actually be contrary to the Truth itself. That’s why I’m smh.
I love apologetics, but I love the redemption and reunity of those separated from us more. I love truth, but I love mercy, and God, Who is Truth, does too. And that’s why telling people that they’re going to Hell, explicitly or implicitly, and attacking them, explicitly or implicitly, can actually be contrary to the Truth itself. That’s why I’m smh.
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NotMyOwn
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I read again what you said. You didn’t say what I thought you did. There’s another thread occupying most of my attention, and it’s really hard and hurts a lot. Please pray for me.
I’m not usually hurt by people disagreeing with me. I’m not a weak person. But this is different because it’s really personal.
I’m not usually hurt by people disagreeing with me. I’m not a weak person. But this is different because it’s really personal.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
- I think you missed my earlier post saying I personally do not feel “called” to get into arguments with people about the Faith and that I think such arguments are generally unproductive. If someone says something insulting, I will set them straight and then remove the toxic person hurling insults from my life.
- If other people are “called” to engage in these arguments, fine, feel free. Different strokes for different folks. Doesn’t change my opinion of the activity.
- I also think that arguing about anything, whether it’s religion, politics, child care, pet care, etc. on social media is a giant dead end and time suck.
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NotMyOwn
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I don’t know what YMMV means. But I liked everything else with that taken out. Have a nice evening.
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Vonsalza
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“Your mileage may vary”
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