Debating with protestants who just won't listen

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Yet look how fast one can ask a person a question, how fast they use their phone to get an answer. It’s seconds.

There are different kinds of questions… Some have no simple answer. Some are too complex for a simple question or answer. Some you have to chew on for months, even years. God promises to answer those who ask. He doesn’t promise to do it immediately.

Example(s) that come to mind?

 

[NotMyOwn]

That’s just it. I know what I’m talking about. It would take a book or two to write and answer these kinds of questions. I have them in my notes on my phone. Maybe I should publish one day.

 

[NotMyOwn]

How to evangelize Protestants: As evangelicals evangelize ourselves… with the Gospel… that in Christ all things can be made whole… that Christ is building His Kingdom… that healing for our souls is readily at hand (how much truer is this for us with the Sacraments, Disciplines of Prayer and Scripture-Reading and Fasting, and writings of the Fathers and Stories of the Saints who have overcome the very same struggles we face and more challenging ones? )

I would go through the Three Circles with them… and reveal that the next step in pursuing and recovering God’s Design might be coming into the Catholic Church… show them how Christian the Catholic Church is… surprise them And encourage them with Scripture on Church Unity and the power it has for Witnessing and seeing people converted to Christ. And they won’t be able to forget what they see. And they won’t be able to let it go, until they are fully in our Unity. And they will be among the greatest of us, and in them and through them we will find the future, and attain at last to a Glorious Revelation of the Children of God upon this very Earth, to the salvation of souls without number in a glorious Soul Harvest.

By the end of this century, given current projections, there will be Christians in every tribe and tongue… But that’s not enough. Christ is coming back for a Bride. And a Bride is what He’s getting. He’s not going to stop with every tribe and tongue, but is patient with all that as many as possible might come to a knowledge of the truth

 

[NotMyOwn]

In all actuality… this way it’s presentated isn’t perfect… you’ll have to be imaginative… oh, and that last bit… nah, the way I’d always seen it explained, we’re always continuing to grow in pursuing and recovering God’s Design and will in our lives.

 

[NotMyOwn]

(I’d fit this in the last post, but the forum is limiting my edits.)

In fact, these little Three Circles brought me into the Catholic Church. It’s a whole initiative in the NAMB and SBC, and possibly beyond… but it points to greater need… and thus greater hope… since it is clear that we as people were still broken and couldn’t get sin totally out of our lives and didn’t know how to see our minds and our lives renewed. We got to repentance, and to the message… but there were things missing. We were never meant to do this alone. The accountability of the Catholic Church answers problems that fully autonomous Christian communities can’t answer… and in that, God brings us together and heals and saves us not just individually, but together…

And in His Body, He tears down the dividing wall of hostility, and makes us truly One in Him. And because of this, we can continue to pursue and recover God’s Design for our lives and as the Church, as we grow in Christ-likeness in our lives and in community as His Kingdom comes, His will is done, on Earth as it is in Heaven.

And that’s how you engage with Protestants. You bypass any possible debate and go straight to the Gospel. Any conversations about specific teachings of the Church come after that. We come to them were they are, and help them along the process. We’ll all get there eventually if we are faithful to go to one another and speak the Gospel of Truth and Love with one another.

Look into what FOCUS does… they do a good job, and I think their work has a lot of potential even off of college campuses.

 

[NotMyOwn]

In the ancient Church… the purpose of Apologetics wasn’t to win arguments… and the followers of Jesus would much rather talk about the Gospel, with joy on their faces and hope, in spite of anything that could happen. Apologetics wasn’t about winning, but in the hope of disarming misinformed anger at the Church… so that government persecution wouldn’t hold God’s Mission back. But Apologetics was never an end to itself. I’m afraid that Christians today… Catholics included… can let Apologetics be a substitute for what Doctrine and a personal encounter with God through His Word, His Spirit, and His People is supposed to do… But we can recover God’s Design for the Church. Today, we have a lot of momentum and history at our disposal. We need to breathe, look at things strategically again… breathe, and renew our perspective and be looking to capture imaginations, hearts and minds with all that God offers us in Christ and what He won for us on the Cross… Unity in His Body, and the Gift of Himself in all sorts of ways in that Body… all of them beautiful…

Capturing people with the Transcendentals in the Church… Truth, Beauty, Goodness, and Unity… all of these are found in their highest heights in the Catholic Church.

Onward, forward, marching, Christian — to Canaan’s fair and happy Land, where our possessions lie.

 

[tgGodsway]

That’s a contradiction in terms. Just say you’re Protestant

Why?.. it’s not like you have copy rights on the word Catholic. You guys include this word in every other sentence, so that we all know you are universal. But guess what! We too (Evangelicals, reformed, Methodist, Baptist, ect. …) are universal, therefore, we are Catholic.

 

[NotMyOwn]

What are you, btw? Reformed Southern Baptist? Read my stuff above. Have you heard of the Three Circles?

 

[qmitchell30]

In my experience, grew up Southern Baptist, protestants are often close-minded for multiple reasons. Occasionally it is because they are raised with misconceptions being taught to them. I have often found that most Protestants want the ability to choose and decipher exactly what they believe and interpret scripture in they way they think it best. Often the idea of a earthly and living spiritual authority is something they are against because they have bought into sola scriptura (which again gives them the power to be the ultimate authority on what scripture means defining it as they wish). Further, it is often accepted that X-denomination was how the early church was, and accept that at face value without studying early church history. The list could go on for reasons, but this is often what I have experienced

 

[tgGodsway]

Therefore, I have to warn you, the Catholic Church has the fullness of the Truth. And even Catholics are not guaranteed salvation. So, how much harder will it be for those who do not adhere to her Teaching?

De_Maria, this statement is laughable. the “fullness of the truth?!” Nothing could be further from the truth. I consider the CC to be one of the weakest links in a very large chain of Christian perspective. But I can assure you, I’m being very generous in comparison to others in my ranks who see you the way you see us.

But I will defend you to them in a heart beat because the body of Christ is not about how one postures themselves, but more about the love of God to all of God’s people.

And as far as this guarantee to salvation, of course you don’t have it. No matter how you spin it, you are in a system of good works yet to be tallied up. The concept of a free gift fades.

But I did like the 1st. Peter 4:17 passage. Is that the judgment seat of Christ? of what?

 

[DeepDeepTrouble3]

Tell them about Padre Pio!!!

 

[tgGodsway]

With an actual debate both sides would be open to the other.

A rare perspective on this site. I agree.

 

[TheButler]

I would go through the Three Circles with them…

I think you’ll find that the vast majority of Protestants subscribe to these three circles and as such are comfortable that their denomination serves to complete the transition from ‘broken’ to the original ‘design’.

And that’s how you engage with Protestants. You bypass any possible debate and go straight to the Gospel. Any conversations about specific teachings of the Church come after that.

Again, you will get no argument at the first stage. It’s the second, ‘specific teachings of the Church’. For example Protestants would argue that if the Gospel is the Good News of Christ then

1. Why the need for the Catechism?
2. Why the need for ‘purgatory’ and ‘limbo’?
3. Why the need to split prayer time between the Blessed Mother and Jesus when it’s Jesus that counts?
4. Why the need for institutionalised confession?
5. Why the need for complex metaphysics and big words like transubstantiation and assumption, the understanding of which doesn’t bring you closer or quicker to heaven?

They would conclude that the message from Christ is simple: "Follow what I teach about loving God and looking out for everyone while accepting you’re flawed. Then I’ll forgive you and everything will be OK’.

I think that five hundred years ago when few could read the argument that the Catholic Church knows best would have been convincing. Nowadays people can read the Gospel for themselves and for Protestants with 500 years of tradition they are in the same position now as the Church in 500AD, confident that because their tradition has lasted this long what’s to fault?

 

[tgGodsway]

But what is someone who was raised in a protestant group, never baptized Catholic, and simply believes as they do because they don’t know any better? What category do they fall into? Heretic? Schismatic?

Simply believes?.. Simply believes in Jesus as the Christ. If this is the case, then they, according to Jesus himself have eternal life.
Heretic or Schismatic is nothing more than crazy making.

 

[TheButler]

A rare perspective on this site. I agree.

I don’t think it would be allowed.

 

[PJM]

Thanks

Excellent advice.

The KEY [mt 16:18] of course is to know the truth [which can only be singular per defined issue] well enough to be able to support it biblically. Many Protestants will not even listen if its not in the bible [which of course is NOT biblical [John 20: 30-31 & John 21: 24-25]

So we are to be armed with Truth, wrapped in God’s Grace; explained in charity [listening to their points of view] supported by facts.

If the issue happens to be one not CLEARLY articulated in the bible; the best advice is to either change the topic or abandon the discussion; unless of course, you have already established a rapport with that person.

Pray very much
Patrick

 

[TheButler]

Simply believes?.. Simply believes in Jesus as the Christ. If this is the case, then they, according to Jesus himself have eternal life.

Heretic or Schismatic is nothing more than crazy making.

I was quoting the OP… Those aren’t my words. I said that those words don’t curry any favours.

 

[Reuben_J]

Sure the people can read for themselves, and then so what? You will be having say thirty thousands councils and popes.

Everybody having their own thought and opinion; it is a man to himself. You do not have to sumbit to anybody, as long as you think you follow Jesus teaching in the Gospels. Great.

 

[tgGodsway]

PJM … Many protestant do not listen to it because it isn’t in the bible. Right. The bible is the inspired word of God. This is why we rely on it and trust it. Any other source must be scrutinized with suspicion simply because it does not have the inspiration of the holy Spirit as it’s authority. Why is that so unreasonable?

Heresy in the 1st. Century was running rampant, it is important to know the truth as God spoke it through His agents of love and grace. Traditions, customs, or simple opinions may all fall short if not tested. Upon the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established.

 

[Reuben_J]

A Catholic and a Protestant can argue on a single verse of the Bible until they are blue in the face and yet do not listen and talking past each other.

The idea of the OP was it is useless arguing/debating in such situation.