Decline gift etiquette

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My husband was former military police and he has a no tolerance policy to any man who may act inappropriately or questionably, especially towards his daughters (not that anyone has). We have been very careful about the kids spending any time with adult males. But there’s nothing in particular about the giver that would make my husband act out other than this odd choice of gift.

Quite the opposite, we as a family, have always highly regarded the giver and never felt anything was amiss. However, at best, I know my husband’s behavior will change towards him, at worst my husband will threaten him never to come near our daughter and/or never allow her to ever be in his presence even if it’s in a group setting.

Again, as I mentioned before, we will continue to see him regularly as it’s unavoidable.

Peace.

+JMJ+
Your husband’s potential response, regardless of his background, and your response to his (feared) response seems to be the issue here. Controlling. It does not sound healthy and it is not about the gift of a shirt. Good luck and warm prayers.
 
Your husband’s potential response, regardless of his background, and your response to his (feared) response seems to be the issue here. Controlling. It does not sound healthy and it is not about the gift of a shirt. Good luck and warm prayers.
Well, the husband presumably has his instincts, and the OP suspects that this situation may trip them.

That suggests that there is something “off” about this situation and this gift.
 
Well, the husband presumably has his instincts, and the OP suspects that this situation may trip them.

That suggests that there is something “off” about this situation and this gift.
I have now read this thread and, without WAY more information, I will bow out of offering any more advice. But this is not an obviously expensive bracelet and, by all accounts, this gentlemen has been a wonderful and steady and positive influence in the girl’s life. I personally don’t get it. Some people do have gift anxiety and read meanings into gifts that do not truly exist. As a rule, I trust parents to know their children and family well and to make wise decisions.

But I am not at all convinced from OP’s statements that the real issue here isn’t her husband.
 
I have now read this thread and, without WAY more information, I will bow out of offering any more advice. But this is not an obviously expensive bracelet and, by all accounts, this gentlemen has been a wonderful and steady and positive influence in the girl’s life. I personally don’t get it. Some people do have gift anxiety and read meanings into gifts that do not truly exist. As a rule, I trust parents to know their children and family well and to make wise decisions.

But I am not at all convinced from OP’s statements that the real issue here isn’t her husband.
Personally, even without the husband’s potential reaction, I think the gift is problematic; it’s inappropriate precisely because of the possible significance, and always has been.
 
Well, the husband presumably has his instincts, and the OP suspects that this situation may trip them.

That suggests that there is something “off” about this situation and this gift.
On the other hand, I think some people have a strong guarding instinct which can at times make them suspect a threat where none may exist.

As has been said, we just don’t know enough about this situation. However the OP handles it, I sympathize with parents today who have to find a balance between teaching their children to be reasonably trusting of others and respectfully assume the best about the authority figures in their lives, and the need to teach them to be worldly-wise.
 
On the other hand, I think some people have a strong guarding instinct which can at times make them suspect a threat where none may exist.

As has been said, we just don’t know enough about this situation. However the OP handles it, I sympathize with parents today who have to find a balance between teaching their children to be reasonably trusting of others and respectfully assume the best about the authority figures in their lives, and the need to teach them to be worldly-wise.
Come to think of it, even from the earliest age, we do teach children to be at least a little wary of unsolicited gifts–for example, the classic “strangers with candy” situation.

Gifts are socially and psychologically very complicated.

narcissisticmil.wordpress.com/2013/08/08/gifts-with-strings-attached/

“Under-pinning all of this is the almost universal anthropological behaviour of acceptance and reciprocity in kind that is attached to gift giving. In fact in many cultures the gift giving occurs so as to create an obligation in kind on the receiver. The anthropologist Marcel Mauss wrote all about this in his treatise “The Gift”. Mauss wondered why did exchanging an object produce such strong feelings of obligation in the recipient and of entitlement in the giver. He described how it was as if a part of the giver’s soul went with the gift, that it was never completely separated from the giver and to reject a gift would be to reject the social bond between the giver and recipient.”

So, one of the problems with gifts can be the question of reciprocity. If Friendly Older Authority Figure gives Teenage Daughter some nice clothes that Teenage Daughter’s family can’t afford, what is Teenage Daughter supposed to give Friendly Authority Figure? That’s what the OP’s husband would presumably be concerned about if he knew.

When I give gifts to minor children outside my household (birthdays, Christmas, etc.) I try always to check in with their parents before getting anything.
 
"Under-pinning all of this is the almost universal anthropological behaviour of acceptance and reciprocity in kind that is attached to gift giving. In fact in many cultures the gift giving occurs so as to create an obligation in kind on the receiver.
Which is why many organizations will send a “gift” along with a begging letter. It can be a few coins, a cheap trinket, greeting cards, etc. - but no matter how small, the “gift” can produce a need in the recipient to respond in kind.

When I want to give something to a child - no matter what age - I check with the mom first to make sure it is both appropriate & desired.
 
So, one of the problems with gifts can be the question of reciprocity. If Friendly Older Authority Figure gives Teenage Daughter some nice clothes that Teenage Daughter’s family can’t afford, what is Teenage Daughter supposed to give Friendly Authority Figure? That’s what the OP’s husband would presumably be concerned about if he knew.
Thank you, Xantippe. You hit the nail on the head. I couldn’t have said it better myself. That is the case with one slight exception. We *can *afford the clothing, it’s that it is more than we are willing to pay for such apparel.

The sentiment of this “thank you” gift will make dh feel like it is intended to “warm” her up to future, friendlier encounters that may go beyond the marked boundaries.

Peace.

+JMJ+
 
I’ll approach this from the opposite end.

Most likely this person gave a gift because they had a good intention.

Say thank you, I appreciate it, but this is too generous.

Then accept the gift graciously.

Your daughter doesn’t need to wear them if you don’t approve.

Don’t assume that this is the beginning of many gifts. If it is, then the next time say, thank you, this is generous but too much.
👍

I’m a firm believer that the response to a gift should always include, “Thank you” in some form or another.

If a gift really appears “too generous”, and especially if it comes without tags, I’d assume there’s the strong possibility that the original gift-giver simply ran across a bargain, making the gift far less expensive than the op thinks it was. It might even be something another person he knows wanted to give away, and the person thought it looked like something the op’s daughter would wear.

The sales rack and second hand stores contain a number of items of clothing that cost far below the “manufacturer’s suggested retail price.” I’m a bargain hunter, and my motto is, “If you’re paying full price, you’re probably doing something wrong.” 😃

When I go shopping for gifts, I often have an amount of money that I plan to spend, and if /when I find bargains, I still spend that same amount of money I’d planned to spend but the other person gets nicer stuff. Therefore, I don’t assume that gifts cost what it looks like they may have cost–although I also know that they might have cost far more.
 
👍

I’m a firm believer that the response to a gift should always include, “Thank you” in some form or another.

If a gift really appears “too generous”, and especially if it comes without tags, I’d assume there’s the strong possibility that the original gift-giver simply ran across a bargain, making the gift far less expensive than the op thinks it was. It might even be something another person he knows wanted to give away, and the person thought it looked like something the op’s daughter would wear.

The sales rack and second hand stores contain a number of items of clothing that cost far below the “manufacturer’s suggested retail price.” I’m a bargain hunter, and my motto is, “If you’re paying full price, you’re probably doing something wrong.” 😃

When I go shopping for gifts, I often have an amount of money that I plan to spend, and if /when I find bargains, I still spend that same amount of money I’d planned to spend but the other person gets nicer stuff. Therefore, I don’t assume that gifts cost what it looks like they may have cost–although I also know that they might have cost far more.
As a bargain hunter myself who likes to share my finds, I thought the same. If we’re talking about a couple of “classic and modest” shirts, I’m thinking of something like a button-down or button-up shirt from a designer label which might retail for $50+ each but one could come across them for much less.

I, personally, don’t see how a thank you gift of modest shirts (which to me would seem to be in repayment for some work the girl already did, not a new source of obligation on her, and which for all we know may have been bought by a woman in the giver’s family) has to be seen as a creepy grooming gift. It could be innocent. Kind of weird, but innocent.

OP, after nearly 5 years here I’ve read many posts by just about everyone in this thread. I truly respect the various posters on this thread pretty much equally, having seen them over that length of time. I hope, OP, it will give you pause if I say that between those posters who don’t see likely bad intentions from this man, and those who do, I’ve seen equally good advice and social astuteness coming from all parties (here) on other threads during my past 5 years on CAF.

But now a man who earlier in the thread the OP said was respected highly by her family has suddenly been branded a sexual predator in her eyes, by one ambiguous act.
 
As a bargain hunter myself who likes to share my finds, I thought the same. If we’re talking about a couple of “classic and modest” shirts, I’m thinking of something like a button-down or button-up shirt from a designer label which might retail for $50+ each but one could come across them for much less.

I, personally, don’t see how a thank you gift of modest shirts (which to me would seem to be in repayment for some work the girl already did, not a new source of obligation on her, and which for all we know may have been bought by a woman in the giver’s family) has to be seen as a creepy grooming gift. It could be innocent. Kind of weird, but innocent.

OP, after nearly 5 years here I’ve read many posts by just about everyone in this thread. I truly respect the various posters on this thread pretty much equally, having seen them over that length of time. I hope, OP, it will give you pause if I say that between those posters who don’t see likely bad intentions from this man, and those who do, I’ve seen equally good advice and social astuteness coming from all parties (here) on other threads during my past 5 years on CAF.

But now a man who earlier in the thread the OP said was respected highly by her family has suddenly been branded a sexual predator in her eyes, by one ambiguous act.
I wonder if it would define the sides of the discussion more if we knew who were mothers of daughters? I know that my attitude is very much reflective of having a daughter and I’m pretty sure my husband would also find a gift of clothing to her as questionable like the OP’s hubby.

As an example of what the girls deal with and I’ve told this story before on CAF… my daughter is 21 and works on checkout at a huge hardware store. It’s the place where all tradesman and weekend DIYers and pretty much every man in our district come for their timber and screws and eski’s and garden stuff.

The checkout staff are predominently the younger members and very regularly the girls are passed business cards from older men saying something like, if you want to talk or go out, give me a call. Everyone knows what that means. The girls are always creeped out by it. They laugh about it and make fun of them but as a mother… I’m like what the hecks wrong with these old men. Don’t they get how inappropriate and downright sleazy it is to behave that way!!! It just gives you insight into the type of older male there is out there who are nothing like your own nice fathers and brothers.

I think it was Easterjoy who said earlier that old taboos had a good purpose. They were natural safeguards to base behaviours that be harmful to others.
 
To give balance to my perspective… I would find a gift card to a clothing store very appropriate compared to actual clothing.
 
I wonder if it would define the sides of the discussion more if we knew who were mothers of daughters? I know that my attitude is very much reflective of having a daughter and I’m pretty sure my husband would also find a gift of clothing to her as questionable like the OP’s hubby.

As an example of what the girls deal with and I’ve told this story before on CAF… my daughter is 21 and works on checkout at a huge hardware store. It’s the place where all tradesman and weekend DIYers and pretty much every man in our district come for their timber and screws and eski’s and garden stuff.

The checkout staff are predominently the younger members and very regularly the girls are passed business cards from older men saying something like, if you want to talk or go out, give me a call. Everyone knows what that means. The girls are always creeped out by it. They laugh about it and make fun of them but as a mother… I’m like what the hecks wrong with these old men. Don’t they get how inappropriate and downright sleazy it is to behave that way!!! It just gives you insight into the type of older male there is out there who are nothing like your own nice fathers and brothers.

I think it was Easterjoy who said earlier that old taboos had a good purpose. They were natural safeguards to base behaviours that be harmful to others.
I thought of that, too, LongingSoul—who here has daughters? But I don’t think that’s the issue. I was trying to point out the lack of unanimity on the basic question of whether giving clothes in this circumstance should be known to be absolutely, horribly taboo right off the bat by any decent person.

I also think it’s more a question of how much or how little we are really able to know what the giver’s motives were; IOW, how well can we know what he was thinking, not how well or poorly he was able to consider the awkward spot he was putting the parents and daughter in.

I say that because as the OP most recently left the issue, she seems pretty convinced he is a sexual predator. And he may be. Or he may not be.

If she is really convinced of that, though, she needs to let higher authorities know about this gift.
 
All of the possible extenuating circumstances (actually bought by wife or female relative or given as payment for a favor) are things that the OP is either in a position to know or the giver ought to have mentioned. If the OP does not know of any extenuating circumstances, I think it’s appropriate to apply more scrutiny to the giver from now on.

The fact that the giver is respected and an authority figure if anything makes his behavior more rather than less problematic. People who are in positions of authority need to be particularly careful to make sure their behavior is not misconstrued.
 
The giver is not married. I do not know if his mother could have “chosen” said clothing, but I highly and seriously doubt it. I could pretty much say it with close to 100% certainty.

Yes, the gift was as a thank you for what she does for free that an adult would normally receive payment for. Think of it as volunteer service that she has been gifted with.

Please note that the service she performs is not for him specifically, but is one that is beneficial to everyone.

The thank you gift pertains NOTHING to the service she rendered. For example, receiving a spatula as a gift if someone painted your house free of cost. It’s not relative in any way.

Peace.

+JMJ+
 
The giver is not married. I do not know if his mother could have “chosen” said clothing, but I highly and seriously doubt it. I could pretty much say it with close to 100% certainty.

Yes, the gift was as a thank you for what she does for free that an adult would normally receive payment for. Think of it as volunteer service that she has been gifted with.

The thank you gift pertains NOTHING to the service she rendered. For example, receiving a spatula as a gift if someone painted your house free of cost. It’s not relative in any way.

Peace.

+JMJ+
Huh.

It sounds like a grey area. I’d say, be civil, but follow your instincts and maybe move your teenage daughter out from under his authority, if possible.
 
The giver is not married. I do not know if his mother could have “chosen” said clothing, but I highly and seriously doubt it. I could pretty much say it with close to 100% certainty.

Yes, the gift was as a thank you for what she does for free that an adult would normally receive payment for. Think of it as volunteer service that she has been gifted with.

Please note that the service she performs is not for him specifically, but is one that is beneficial to everyone.

**The thank you gift pertains NOTHING to the service she rendered. For example, receiving a spatula as a gift if someone painted your house free of cost. It’s not relative in any way.
**
Peace.

+JMJ+
I am not sure if this makes sense. So if she worked for him as a store clerk for his clothing store then a gift of clothing is appropriate? vs if she worked for him as a store clerk for his hardware store then a gift of screws and timber is appropriate? or because it is a store clerk then maybe a gift of money? 🤷

Frankly, I think the fact the she is performing a service as a volunteer for him and that he knows the family then it is probably why he felt he needed to at least pay her somehow.
 
I am not sure if this makes sense. So if she worked for him as a store clerk for his clothing store then a gift of clothing is appropriate? vs if she worked for him as a store clerk for his hardware store then a gift of screws and timber is appropriate? 🤷

Frankly, I think the fact the she is performing a service as a volunteer for him and that he knows the family then it is probably why he felt he needed to at least pay her somehow.
It’s a good idea to check in first with mom or dad if it’s a minor child who isn’t an actual employee.
 
Huh.

It sounds like a grey area. I’d say, be civil, but follow your instincts and maybe move your teenage daughter out from under his authority, if possible.
That seems pretty reasonable, IMO.

There are a lot of grey areas and unknowns here, I’d say.

The OP has an obligation to protect her family, of course. But there’s also an obligation to act justly to not only one’s nuclear family, but to the larger human family which includes this man. I think it’s in human nature to care most about our own nuclear families, but that cannot come at the cost of possible injustice towards unmarried adults. It’s too easy to forget that when our protective instincts fear children may be threatened.
 
It’s a good idea to check in first with mom or dad if it’s a minor child who isn’t an actual employee.
It is, but I doubt any of us always goes about doing things in the best way.
 
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