Defending Life Teen!

[stringbeanduck]

LF is not just for teens. In fact, we have a number of families, adults, seniors, etc., who participate in LT mass. Hey, I’ve got an idea – why don’t we just throw out the Church of today and tomorrow, alienate the teens, then beat our breasts, weep, and moan over why we have no young people in our church to carry on the traditions and rituals of the church – much like we’ve done over the past 40 years. Have you ever asked your self what the Church has done for our young adults after they graduate from high school. Well let me tell you, the answer is next to nothing. I suppose we could just force them to go to a Latin mass and they could go through a mass that has no recognizable parts and in a language they won’t understand. Now that my friends that is a great way to keep them interested. A majority of Cahtolic teens worldwide don’t have access to the mega catholic chuches where all sorts of programs are offered.

What’s wrong with the regular English? If they can’t participate in the regular English one then that’s their problem. Do you not get it? It isn’t about us. It is about God and only Him. They’re focus shouldn’t be on the music. They should be able to worship God and give at least 1hr a week to think about Him. I don’t go to Mass to feel good about myself, though I do feel good after going to Mass. See, the key word here is God not us. Teens and young adults need to be taught this lesson.

I disagree that most music at a LT mass is evil and contrary to the meaning of the mass. While the church is not a democracy, it does change. LT may be a small part of that change. I can only speak for our LT masses. Other than the music played at most Sunday masses, it is exactly what you would experience in your church.

Who said it being evil. I think soft rock Christian music is good when done away from Mass. Though I don’t fancy it much. Mass whatever language it is in, should be reverent. LT does not meet that standered.

Ponder this! If it came down to it, would you go to a LT mass on Sunday and holy days if that were the only mass available to you, or would you just not go at all. The answer is – you would go. If you didn’t what kind of a Catholic would that make you? Although if you went to a LT mass, wouldn’t that make you a hypocrite? I suspect if you critics didn’t speak French yet were in France you would go to a Catholic mass. You wouldn’t have a clue what you just participated in, but you would go and feel good about “meeting your Sunday obligation”.

What you just said there makes no sense. Whether it be a TLM or LT we have an obligation to make it to Mass. If the world ran out food for vegetarians and all we had left was meat. Would they eat it? Probably. Does that make them a hypocrite?

LT may not be for you but it is not in conflict with the Church on the mass. Again, if it were the only mass available to you, WOULD YOU GO? If you say you would go, then this discussion is over - put in the ear plugs before you go in and grit your teeth.

You have funny way of logic there.

 

[tcraig]

LT may not be for you but it is not in conflict with the Church on the mass. Again, if it were the only mass available to you, WOULD YOU GO? If you say you would go, then this discussion is over - put in the ear plugs before you go in and grit your teeth.

Of course, because that’s just what Catholics need to do.

Rather than those proponents of LifeTeen figuring out that the music is part of the problem with LifeTeen, inasmuch as it contradicts every single freakin’ document that has come out of Rome on music appropriate to the mass, we’re just supposed to plug our ears, grit our teeth and attend.

cradlecatholic4, why don’t you answer why you have teenagers playing guitars and drums during mass? Why don’t you answer why you have secular instruments at the mass, which Rome has clearly said are not appropriate?

Why do you consider your defenses for LifeTeen appropriate (even though they contradict what Rome has put out on appropriate music for the liturgy) and the rest of us wrong??

 

[Sarabande]

I will re-state that since I haven’t been to a LT mass since I was a teen back in the 90s, I can’t critique what is going on in their masses now…

…Hey, I’ve got an idea – why don’t we just throw out the Church of today and tomorrow…

I don’t understand this line of thought. The Church of “today and tomorrow” is also the Church of yesterday, so we’ll be throwing out centuries of tradition and alienating everyone - not just teens.

Have you ever asked your self what the Church has done for our young adults after they graduate from high school. Well let me tell you, the answer is next to nothing…

They have Newman Centers at their colleges which can provide a lot for a Catholic student. I don’t know about other areas, but sadly besides many of the inner-city kids I worked with at college, almost all of the people I knew from high school all went to college, so you’d be getting a lot of Catholic students there. Also, at least in my university which is located as a relatively safe island in not a great part of the city, the Newman Center did a lot of community outreach, tutoring inner-city kids whose experience is mostly with older brothers and sisters in gangs who drop out of high school, food drives, visitations to AIDs hospices in the area, children’s hospitals, Operation Santa Claus for the poor children in the area, interfaith dialogues with the other religious groups on campus, etc. What better way to practice what you believe as a young adult Christian than to do things like that?

There is also the National Catholic Student Coalition, of which many of my fondest memories as Catholic college student was made. Only problem I had with it as a college student was sometimes the music at mass.

Then you have lots of Catholic music groups which do P&W or even Catholic hip hop music. And for people who like that kind of thing they can go see concerts after mass or whereever those people perform. There’s a grouip called Catholic Underground which is in the NE where I’m from. I don’t know much about it, but they evangelize through artists, musicians, writers, etc. relevant to young adults who are into that counter-cultural, underground thing - and they do it after Eucharistic adoration and vespers.

I think if young Catholics get involved in programs like these, they would have a satisfying experience for their age groups without having to mess with the mass. The mass should stay timeless and transcendent, filled with awe and other-worldliness to better show difference between the secular and the sacred.

… I suppose we could just force them to go to a Latin mass and they could go through a mass that has no recognizable parts and in a language they won’t understand…

You know as well as I that no one is decreeing that all masses be done just in Latin. What some of us have been asking is why they don’t encourage the use of Latin and chant and other centuries-old traditions in their masses? What better way to make more like a part of them than to start it off when they are young, so that if and when they ever do attend a mass that has
all of that, it won’t seem foreign and strange.

Also, there are young adults and teens who would be very happy to attend a more traditional mass with an after mass program focused on that age group. There isn’t anything wrong with that, but it seems when that is ever brought up, it’s either ignored or immediately shot down.

.I disagree that most music at a LT mass is evil and contrary to the meaning of the mass…

I've never heard anyone say it was evil.  Inappropriate for mass, yes.

Ponder this! If it came down to it, would you go to a LT mass on Sunday and holy days if that were the only mass available to you, or would you just not go at all. The answer is – you would go. If you didn’t what kind of a Catholic would that make you? Although if you went to a LT mass, wouldn’t that make you a hypocrite?

Ad hominum attacks never help in a person’s defence of one side of a debate. And, no, it would not make that person a hypocrite. They have no choice, especially if there were no other masses available to them.

That said, going back to your first hypothetical situation, what kind of Catholic would it make those who stop going to mass because the Church stopped masses which weren’t catering to their needs as teens or young adults? If that is the case, then their LT program didn’t help in making them more deeply aware of their faith and deeper in their spirituality.

. I suspect if you critics didn’t speak French yet were in France you would go to a Catholic mass. You wouldn’t have a clue what you just participated in, but you would go and feel good about “meeting your Sunday obligation”.

That’s assuming a lot. I’ve been to plenty of masses in France, Italy and Austria and although I have an elementary understanding of the language, I knew exactly what was going on, with the exception of the homilies. Actually the Latin OF masses in those countries were very helpful in that respect when I did find a Latin OF. I don’t go to just meet my Sunday obligation. I go because I love going to mass and if the mass is the same, it transcends everything. To assume that critics of LT or anyone would only attend a mass in another language just to meet one’s Sunday obligation is an unfounded assumption.

 

[Sarabande]

…LT may not be for you but it is not in conflict with the Church on the mass. Again, if it were the only mass available to you, WOULD YOU GO? If you say you would go, then this discussion is over - put in the ear plugs before you go in and grit your teeth.

Telling people to plug their ears and grit their teeth is not an answer. No one deserves to experience a mass like that.

I will repeat what I mentioned in another post… if the critiques of the LT mass by fellow Catholics are constantly the same and if the defense continue to sound like a broken record and making the defenders feel angry, perhaps it’s time to rethink the entire concept of LT. Don’t get rid of it, but reevaluate the premise. It would help LT grow and evolve better, rather than be stuck and bitter and angry at those who critique them. All of those things do not help with one’s own personal growth.

Have those who actually participate in LT do anonymous evaluations, get adult volunteers not involved in LT in each parish to evaluate what is happening at their LT masses.

It just feels like propanants are saying, “I’m going to keep doing it my way and that’s that. I don’t care what others are saying.”

I’ll give my musical technique critique example again… if only a few people have critiques of my technique, I can look at myself and say, “No, I’m still going to do it my way. I know it works for me and I know it only has to do with preference.” BUT if a lot of other musicians are giving me the same critique on my technique, for me to ignore it, to be stubborn and continue on my merry way, will be more detrimental to me and eventually to future music students when I decide to stop performing and take on pupils because I’ll be teaching a flawed technique.

The smart thing to do is to really evaluate what I’m doing. Go to another expert and get advice and help to help me grow and be better with what I’m doing.

That’s what LT should be doing as well. They are getting a lot of critiques - not just a few. I hear the same things in real life as I do on these boards from people who also love their faith - not people who hate the Catholic Church. Something is not right and it’s only causing division. I’m trying to look at this in a non-emotional way and all I see is stubborness. I understand that no one wants to see any flaws in something they love. I also understand that in some of these programs, good has come out of it. But in order for a program to really get better and grow one has to be willing to see the flaws and listen to the critiques.

 

[FrDavid96]

LF is not just for teens. In fact, we have a number of families, adults, seniors, etc., who participate in LT mass. Hey, I’ve got an idea – why don’t we just throw out the Church of today and tomorrow, alienate the teens, then beat our breasts, weep, and moan over why we have no young people in our church to carry on the traditions and rituals of the church – much like we’ve done over the past 40 years. Have you ever asked your self what the Church has done for our young adults after they graduate from high school. Well let me tell you, the answer is next to nothing. I suppose we could just force them to go to a Latin mass and they could go through a mass that has no recognizable parts and in a language they won’t understand. Now that my friends that is a great way to keep them interested. A majority of Cahtolic teens worldwide don’t have access to the mega catholic chuches where all sorts of programs are offered.

I disagree that most music at a LT mass is evil and contrary to the meaning of the mass. While the church is not a democracy, it does change. LT may be a small part of that change. I can only speak for our LT masses. Other than the music played at most Sunday masses, it is exactly what you would experience in your church.

Ponder this! If it came down to it, would you go to a LT mass on Sunday and holy days if that were the only mass available to you, or would you just not go at all. The answer is – you would go. If you didn’t what kind of a Catholic would that make you? Although if you went to a LT mass, wouldn’t that make you a hypocrite? I suspect if you critics didn’t speak French yet were in France you would go to a Catholic mass. You wouldn’t have a clue what you just participated in, but you would go and feel good about “meeting your Sunday obligation”.

LT may not be for you but it is not in conflict with the Church on the mass. Again, if it were the only mass available to you, WOULD YOU GO? If you say you would go, then this discussion is over - put in the ear plugs before you go in and grit your teeth.

Please allow me to interject a little reality into your argument.

You say that without lifeteen and other programs, the teenagers will leave and go to the protestants. Your line of reasoning is that unless the Church protestantizes itself, we’ll loose all our young people. “much like we’ve done over the past 40 years”. Here’s the reality: it wasn’t until protestantizing influences like the charismatic movement and lifeteen (which is a part of that) appeared and forced young people to attend these quasi-Masses that we began losing young people in such numbers. When young Catholics experience protestantism and nothing more in their Catholic parishes, that’s when they leave the Church and become outright members of protestant communities–precisely because they see no difference between one and the other.

What kind of teenagers are leaving the Church? Let’s be honest here. Is it the ones who have a solid grounding in Catholic faith and praxis? Is it the ones who don’t like the hand-holding and the stadium waves and all the other nonsense that they are forced to endure? These are the young people who are seeking out other Masses which are celebrated as the Church intends. These are the young people who would never imagine leaving the Church.

It is the ones who “like” the lifeteen model and the ones who are so immersed in the charismatic nonsense who are so quick to leave the Church at the slightest excuse.

I’m tired of hearing people speak untruths about the movement that it somehow keeps young people in the Church. The truth is that it does no such thing. It only encourages them to leave at the first opportunity, or the first time that Mass is no longer entertaining enough and they have to seek their entertainment elsewhere.

That’s the truth, whether lifeteen proponents want to admit it or not.

The other reality is that the music itself is not the only problem with the lifeteen model. There are many many liturgical abuses happening at these Masses. They are not just “regular” Masses with youth-oriented music.

 

[Dicerning]

LF is not just for teens. In fact, we have a number of families, adults, seniors, etc., who participate in LT mass. Hey, I’ve got an idea – why don’t we just throw out the Church of today and tomorrow, alienate the teens, then beat our breasts, weep, and moan over why we have no young people in our church to carry on the traditions and rituals of the church – much like we’ve done over the past 40 years. Have you ever asked your self what the Church has done for our young adults after they graduate from high school. Well let me tell you, the answer is next to nothing. I suppose we could just force them to go to a Latin mass and they could go through a mass that has no recognizable parts and in a language they won’t understand. Now that my friends that is a great way to keep them interested. A majority of Cahtolic teens worldwide don’t have access to the mega catholic chuches where all sorts of programs are offered.

I disagree that most music at a LT mass is evil and contrary to the meaning of the mass. While the church is not a democracy, it does change. LT may be a small part of that change. I can only speak for our LT masses. Other than the music played at most Sunday masses, it is exactly what you would experience in your church.

Ponder this! If it came down to it, would you go to a LT mass on Sunday and holy days if that were the only mass available to you, or would you just not go at all. The answer is – you would go. If you didn’t what kind of a Catholic would that make you? Although if you went to a LT mass, wouldn’t that make you a hypocrite? I suspect if you critics didn’t speak French yet were in France you would go to a Catholic mass. You wouldn’t have a clue what you just participated in, but you would go and feel good about “meeting your Sunday obligation”.

LT may not be for you but it is not in conflict with the Church on the mass. Again, if it were the only mass available to you, WOULD YOU GO? If you say you would go, then this discussion is over - put in the ear plugs before you go in and grit your teeth.

Lifeteen is not in my diocese. (and according to the bishop it isn’t welcome). The teens in my diocese do just fine without it. It seems as though now in your situation your diocese has created a monster in allowing lifeteen. Based on your post it seems like you believe teens cannot connect with Mass and feel “alienated”. Golly, kids around here must be different. I have seen 100s of teens singing o’ salutoris at benediction. Of course they haven’t been tainted by life teen either though.

 

[Adonis33]

Please allow me to interject a little reality into your argument.

You say that without lifeteen and other programs, the teenagers will leave and go to the protestants. Your line of reasoning is that unless the Church protestantizes itself, we’ll loose all our young people. “much like we’ve done over the past 40 years”. Here’s the reality: it wasn’t until protestantizing influences like the charismatic movement and lifeteen (which is a part of that) appeared and forced young people to attend these quasi-Masses that we began losing young people in such numbers. When young Catholics experience protestantism and nothing more in their Catholic parishes, that’s when they leave the Church and become outright members of protestant communities–precisely because they see no difference between one and the other.

What kind of teenagers are leaving the Church? Let’s be honest here. Is it the ones who have a solid grounding in Catholic faith and praxis? Is it the ones who don’t like the hand-holding and the stadium waves and all the other nonsense that they are forced to endure? These are the young people who are seeking out other Masses which are celebrated as the Church intends. These are the young people who would never imagine leaving the Church.

It is the ones who “like” the lifeteen model and the ones who are so immersed in the charismatic nonsense who are so quick to leave the Church at the slightest excuse.

I’m tired of hearing people speak untruths about the movement that it somehow keeps young people in the Church. The truth is that it does no such thing. It only encourages them to leave at the first opportunity, or the first time that Mass is no longer entertaining enough and they have to seek their entertainment elsewhere.

That’s the truth, whether lifeteen proponents want to admit it or not.

The other reality is that the music itself is not the only problem with the lifeteen model. There are many many liturgical abuses happening at these Masses. They are not just “regular” Masses with youth-oriented music.

Great point. Also - you’ll notice that most of the LT defenders tend to get way too emotional when defending their mass.

One poster even stated" " Time to for me to take a hiatus this board. It makes me not want to be Catholic."

Makes one wonder - are they loyal to Holy Mother Church or Lifeteen?

 

[Sarabande]

MERRY CHRISTMAS, EVERYONE!!!

God bless all of you!

:christmastree1:

 

[palmas85]

Great point. Also - you’ll notice that most of the LT defenders tend to get way too emotional when defending their mass.

One poster even stated" " Time to for me to take a hiatus this board. It makes me not want to be Catholic."

Makes one wonder - are they loyal to Holy Mother Church or Lifeteen?

It has been my experience both on this forum and in personal contact that many of the staunchist defenders of Lifeteen are more more devoted to the movement than to the Church. I think ample evidence of that could be seen by the number of prior Lifeteen members that departed the Church in order to join the founders in their new and improved Christian community.

 

[JPUSC]

I agree. The ones I know involved in a LifeTeen type program are against going to other parishes with “boring” Masses.

A Protestant friend of mine was on the brink of joining the Church until we went to a LifeTeen-type Mass. He changed his mind. He said it resembled his non-denominational church and he was under the impression that the Catholic Church was more traditional. He now attends a Presbyterian church.

 

[Aramis]

Rev. Fr. David:

I have to disagree with you about the last 40 years… the most important change was the permission to associate freely with those outside the church. That exposes our youth to a much wider array of belief, and tempts them away from truth.

Prior to the 20th C, Catholics were not to associate with non-Catholics outside of work and school. That insularism hurt adult conversions, but also helped retain the faithful. It also made the parish the center of social life.

That change has as much to do with the decline in attendance as the so-called protestantizing.

 

[FrDavid96]

Rev. Fr. David:

I have to disagree with you about the last 40 years… the most important change was the permission to associate freely with those outside the church. That exposes our youth to a much wider array of belief, and tempts them away from truth.

Prior to the 20th C, Catholics were not to associate with non-Catholics outside of work and school. That insularism hurt adult conversions, but also helped retain the faithful. It also made the parish the center of social life.

That change has as much to do with the decline in attendance as the so-called protestantizing.

I don’t mean it (ie protestantizing) to be the source of the problem, to the exclusion of all other sources and influences. However, it has made a significant contribution to the overall problem, and in spite of its claims, has accomplished nothing positive.

In the past, Catholic youth were not exposed to Protestantism because of the “isolationist” attitude to which you refer. I’ve even heard the derrogatory term “Catholic ghetto.” Instead though today, we see Protestantism being introduced to Catholics in the Catholic parishes themselves. The pendulum has swung too far.

It’s also ironic that as you said the parish was the center of social life–in other words, these movements tried to fix a problem which was not there in the first place by creating new forms of “socializing” to replace the existing forms. It’s simply not true to say that prior to circa 1970 Catholic parishes did nothing to “hold on” to young people. Quite the contrary, they did considerably more than most parishes do today–and most importantly they did it successfully. Catholics used to get together for feast days, saints days, and other purely Catholic forms of gathering. Parishes had sports teams for young people, and all kinds of social activities–in spite of what some want to claim. Organizations like the Altar Society were not just functional (taking care of the altar linens for example) but social as well. People did away with those forms and then created new ones to fill the vacuum which they themselves had created. Saints days like St. Francis of Assisi, St. Blaise, St. Nicholas, parish patrons, and so many others used to be important events in the life of Catholics.

We see the same problem in Liturgy. People did away with most of the purely Catholic ritual, and then said “we need something more” and did a combination of borrowing from the Protestants and secular world (and in some cases even pagan forms of worship) and creating new forms to fill the void.

I receive complimentary (not by choice) copies of a certain magazine which I won’t mention. The magazine dedicates itself to a combination of belittling traditional Catholic worship and advocating new forms (sometimes taken straight from pagan ritual). It expresses the problem which now faces the Church: that of people removing Catholic worship and theology while at the same time claiming that there is a void which needs to be filled by introducing non-Catholic forms.

 

[benedictgal]

I don’t mean it (ie protestantizing) to be the source of the problem, to the exclusion of all other sources and influences. However, it has made a significant contribution to the overall problem, and in spite of its claims, has accomplished nothing positive.

In the past, Catholic youth were not exposed to Protestantism because of the “isolationist” attitude to which you refer. I’ve even heard the derrogatory term “Catholic ghetto.” Instead though today, we see Protestantism being introduced to Catholics in the Catholic parishes themselves. The pendulum has swung too far.

It’s also ironic that as you said the parish was the center of social life–in other words, these movements tried to fix a problem which was not there in the first place by creating new forms of “socializing” to replace the existing forms. It’s simply not true to say that prior to circa 1970 Catholic parishes did nothing to “hold on” to young people. Quite the contrary, they did considerably more than most parishes do today–and most importantly they did it successfully. Catholics used to get together for feast days, saints days, and other purely Catholic forms of gathering. Parishes had sports teams for young people, and all kinds of social activities–in spite of what some want to claim. Organizations like the Altar Society were not just functional (taking care of the altar linens for example) but social as well. People did away with those forms and then created new ones to fill the vacuum which they themselves had created. Saints days like St. Francis of Assisi, St. Blaise, St. Nicholas, parish patrons, and so many others used to be important events in the life of Catholics.

We see the same problem in Liturgy. People did away with most of the purely Catholic ritual, and then said “we need something more” and did a combination of borrowing from the Protestants and secular world (and in some cases even pagan forms of worship) and creating new forms to fill the void.

I receive complimentary (not by choice) copies of a certain magazine which I won’t mention. The magazine dedicates itself to a combination of belittling traditional Catholic worship and advocating new forms (sometimes taken straight from pagan ritual). It expresses the problem which now faces the Church: that of people removing Catholic worship and theology while at the same time claiming that there is a void which needs to be filled by introducing non-Catholic forms.

I agree. When we start deviating from what the Church prays, practices and teaches, we do our kids no favors by removing from them an authentic Senus Fidei.

Case in point: In my dad’s former parish, the man who replaced my father has started a youth group called Xodus. Early next year, he will be taking the parish youth to San Antonio for the Acquire the Fire conference. I looked up the conference through a google search. This is a protestant conference full of praise and worship music with no Catholic clergy participating. He is offering to take the kids to San Antonio for the weekend, but, there is no mention that they will be attending Mass or anything else other than the conference.

In fact, here is the bulletin announcement:

Acquire the Fire 2008-09

Here Comes Trouble: What if Jesus walked the earth today? ATF has existed for 17 years as a catalyst to youth ministries’ growth and discipleship. Through a life-changing weekend experience, teens and youth workers are inspired in their faith to ignite a generation for Christ.

ATF comes to the San Antonio Freemam Coliseum Feb. 22-28, 2009. Early bird tickets on sale for $46. Please call — to reseve your spot if you want to attend with St. X’s Xodus Youth Ministry.

Incidentally, this same person is also handing RCIA. That is a scary thought. I don’t know what his qualifications are, but, if he is doing this to the youth, I can only imagine what he is teaching those who are coming into the Church.

I ran into our chancellor when she came to our parish to pick up Christmas presents for needy children. I told her about what my dad’s former parish was going to do and she had a fit.

And, no, my diocese, does not have LifeTeen; however, we do have a Youth Cursillo.

 

[dan]

Great point. Also - you’ll notice that most of the LT defenders tend to get way too emotional when defending their mass.

One poster even stated" " Time to for me to take a hiatus this board. It makes me not want to be Catholic."

Makes one wonder - are they loyal to Holy Mother Church or Lifeteen?

Wow, you people really don’t understand sarcasm.

 

[snhs]

What we need is more youth functions more so in areas that have little or none. If you take the “LifeTeen” whatnot put it into the youth functions you’ll have an abundance of kids going to these things. During the youth functions, adult leaders should show the importance of the Mass and why it is important they celebrate it. I’ve studied teen culture and I know how they think.

Everybody likes a roll model some1 who is ‘cool’ and popular. There are teen Catholics who posses this quality. You need to find them and appoint them as youth leaders during the events. When teen Catholics see their popular friends active in the church, chances are they might come as well.

I’m telling you… You guys need to be clever and creative with these things as well. I only wish I had the ability to help out and set up youth groups but I’m already involved with a very active Parish. Perhaps when we(the family) move up to Michigan, I’ll be able to find a parish that needs help and offer my services there. See, when you have too many good and active Catholic teens in one area it doesn’t help the rest of the country. Some of us need to be spread out a little bit.

I have no objections whatsoever to more opportunities being made available for teenagers to learn about their faith. But I think your second paragraph completely misses the point.

Getting people to attend Church should not be about the cult of popularity, and to give into the kind of policy you suggest is exactly the thing which has created the problems programs like LT engender. If we are to appoint anyone as youth leaders in our Parishes it should not be based on their popularity, how down they are with teen culture or any other factors than their knowledge of the faith, faithfulness to the teachings of the Church and ability to pass them on.

We cannot and must not create a superficial basis for someone’s faith, and that’s exactly what we are going to do if they are attending because Sophie, Steve or whoever else does. To do so may get them in Church and may make them superficially ‘catholic’, but when it comes down to more difficult things or conflicts of faith they are as likely, if not more likely, to ignore what the Church says or to abandon it completely than to obey Church teaching. When anyone sees the truth of what the Church teaches they will come to the Church whether it is popular or not, and because of that when called upon to follow the Church in harder things they will do so. Unless youth programs etc aim for a true conversion of that kind in the long term they can often do far more harm than good.

 

[snhs]

Wow, you people really don’t understand sarcasm.

It seems to me it is you who does not understand, learn the lesson of King Canute already.

 

[palmas85]

Wow, you people really don’t understand sarcasm.

Not when it isn’t. And what you wrote clearly wasn’t sarcasm at all. You were frustrated and with good reason. Your sacred cow, Lifeteen got slammed and you obviously can’t tolerate that.

 

[stringbeanduck]

I have no objections whatsoever to more opportunities being made available for teenagers to learn about their faith. But I think your second paragraph completely misses the point.

Getting people to attend Church should not be about the cult of popularity, and to give into the kind of policy you suggest is exactly the thing which has created the problems programs like LT engender. If we are to appoint anyone as youth leaders in our Parishes it should not be based on their popularity, how down they are with teen culture or any other factors than their knowledge of the faith, faithfulness to the teachings of the Church and ability to pass them on.

We cannot and must not create a superficial basis for someone’s faith, and that’s exactly what we are going to do if they are attending because Sophie, Steve or whoever else does. To do so may get them in Church and may make them superficially ‘catholic’, but when it comes down to more difficult things or conflicts of faith they are as likely, if not more likely, to ignore what the Church says or to abandon it completely than to obey Church teaching. When anyone sees the truth of what the Church teaches they will come to the Church whether it is popular or not, and because of that when called upon to follow the Church in harder things they will do so. Unless youth programs etc aim for a true conversion of that kind in the long term they can often do far more harm than good.

Think you misunderstood me. I’m not saying appoint unfaithful, ignorant people who say and look Catholic. I’m talking about the real deal. We have quite a few teens in our parish that reel others in because they are dynamic and smart in the faith as well as adults too. Believe me, saying a bunch of Jesus songs and waving one’s hands in the air doesn’t make them Catholic in my book; while at the same time you must understand that youth groups can not be a boring lecture. I believe adults need to find the happy median where their youth events are creative and interactive, yet informative and to the point.

Keep in mind though this is different from Mass. I see there being no problem with a fun youth group who has learned to be reverent Mass. I also want to point out that my Parish is by no means a perfect roll model, but I have seen what works best and what doesn’t.

I agree, with you; “dressing up” up the Truth is kind of how this LT stuff got started any how. Never did I say dress up or make it look cool. The truth is what it is and that’s how it should main point of a youth group. At least IMO.

 

[benedictgal]

I believe this quote from the Holy Father would make a case in favor of introducing solemnity and dignity into Life Teen Masses. He said this in his Christmas greetings to the Curia this year:

Finally, the solemn liturgy is the centre of everything, because there takes place in it what we are unable to accomplish and of which, however, we are always in expectation. He is present. He enters into our midst. Heaven is rent, and this makes the earth glow. It is this which makes life joyful and open and unites one to another in a joy which cannot be compared to the joy of a rock festival.

Why not introduce solemnity and dignity into the LifeTeen Masses? Why not teach the kids that this is the moment when heaven and earth meet and we stand in the presence of the living and Triune God? Do the kids even understand (or are they at the very least told) that this is the Sacrifice? I think that is the problem with LifeTeen. The organizers are so busy catering to the kids’ culture and trying to make the Mass something that it is not that they have forgotten what the Holy Sacrifice really is.