Defending Life Teen!

[Sarabande]

But I don’t think there is a simple answer. I have two teenage daughters and one loves modern worship songs and the other much prefers very traditional music and liturgy. And perhaps that is the real warning - never think that one solution will fit everyone.

I think that is a problem with these kinds of masses. It assumes that all teenagers are the same or all people in the suburbs or in the city are the same. Your two daughters are proof that this is not the case.

Personally I don’t know if the solution is some more teen-oriented worship or is better catechesis and better understanding of what the mass is (or all of those things). But we certainly do have a problem, and the solution must start with being able to acknowledge that.

Totally agree with this. I think there is a problem with people not truly understanding of what the mass is all about. Just talking to Catholics in your circles and you’ll find that. And sometimes, the people who are in charge in making sure mass is more “accessible” are ones whose hearts are in the right place because they want to bring more people to the Church, but don’t have the same understanding in line with the Church.

Although I personally don’t think they’re necessary, I also don’t have a problem with having a teen-oriented mass in terms of homilies perhaps being more geared towards teens. If the program after mass really focuses on truly teaching proper catechesis in a way that is accessible to teens, that is great. The reverence of the mass would also help enforce that and drive home to teens the mystery, awe and overwhelming power of God at mass - that it is something so different from the secular world once mass begins.

Again, nothing wrong with praise and worship music especially for their after mass programs or as a way to gear up for mass prior to it. But to me, it would seem that if the Church really wants the official music of the Church to be held in high esteem and used during mass, what better way to reintroduce it to many parishes which hasn’t used it for a while, than to introduce it to our next generations - the children and teens of the Catholic Church. Otherwise, it’s just all lip service and words on a page - and I don’t believe with things like this, the Church isn’t into lip service. You don’t have to make the entire mass all chant and polyphony and other traditional music, but to introduce it into at least parts of the mass, will better show how important it is within the Church and the mass and will make it more accessible especially as they get older. It won’t seem foreign and strange.

But first and foremost is just a proper teaching of our faith. When that happens, everything falls into place.

 

[ppz]

The Spiritual Gifts

by Fr Pat Collins

Fr Pat CollinsWhen I was a child my favourite book was about Rupert the Bear. It contained one illustrated story which recounted in enchanting images how Rupert and his parents visited a cave under the sea. It glowed and twinkled with a mysterious light, and was peopled by elf-like creatures with diaphanous wings. To me it was a magical place, one that evoked feelings of awe and wonder. Now in adult life I feel much the same way about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. They are fascinating and attractive because they seem to be aglow with the radiance of God’s glory. Indeed, in Cor. 12: 7 Paul describes them as epiphaneia i.e. epiphanies or manifestations of the power and presence of the Risen Lord.

There are three lists of such charismata or gifts of God in the New Testament letters. The first two are to be found in Rm. 12:6-9 and Eph. 4:7-14. However the best known is outlined in 1 Cor. 12:7-12. It mentions nine gifts, wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discernment of spirits, tongues and interpretation of tongues. Scripture scholars point out that the list is not exclusive. There are many other charisms which are not mentioned, such as the gifts of celibacy, tears, visions etc.

All of the charisms are rooted in love, express love and aim to build up that same love in the Christian community, which is the Body of Christ. Indeed the worthwhileness of a particular gift can be determined by its ability to edify in this way. That is why St. Paul can say in 1 Cor. 14:4 that the gift of prophecy i.e. the ability to speak in an inspiring way on God’s behalf, is more important than the gift of tongues. While the former can build up the community, the latter can only build up the individual who prays in this way. The charisms can be grouped in accordance with their purpose.

1. The word gifts of wisdom, knowledge, prophecy, preaching and teaching, are needed to proclaim the good news which assures us that God’s justice is on hold until judgement day. Meantime we sinners live in the age of God’s unrestricted and unconditional mercy and love. So if we look only into the eyes of God’s mercy, expecting only mercy, we will receive only mercy, now and at the hour of our death.
2. Gifts of power including healing, miracles and exorcism are the good news in action, demonstrating the truth of the gospel proclamation in a remarkable and liberating way.
3. Then there are service gifts such as, pastoral care, alms giving, leadership and administration. They too demonstrate the good news of God’s mercy and love, while expressing its practical implications in everyday life.
4. Finally, there are the prayer gifts such as the power to intercede or sing in tongues, to be filled and guided by the Spirit, and to contemplate and worship God from the heart.

We are indebted to modern scholars such as Kilian McDonnell and George T Montague for pointing out the intimate connection between the sacraments of initiation. Baptism in the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit, both in scripture and in the writings of the early Church Fathers. It is only when Christians appropriate in an experiential way, the graces they first received in baptism that they can receive the more remarkable charisms. As Frank Sullivan has written, “Baptism in the Spirit is a religious experience which initiates a decisively new awareness of the all-powerful presence of God working in one’s life which working usually involves one of the more charismatic gifts”. (My italics)

In a prophetic way the teaching of Vatican II anticipated future events when the bishops mentioned the charisms in two documents i.e par. 12 of the Constitution of the Church, and par. 3 of the Constitution of the Laity. It seems to me that the teaching of these documents, and of the more recent encyclical, The Vocation and the Mission of the Laity, par. 24 can be summed up in the following seven points:

1. Grace comes to us not only through sacraments and clerical ministry, but also through the charisms mentioned in 1 Cor 12.
2. The Holy Spirit distributes ordinary and extraordinary gifts among lay people as well as priests.
3. These gifts are given to build up the Church and to develop people.
4. These gifts are to be received with gratitude and consolation.
5. The laity have a right to exercise their gifts and ministries. This right comes from their baptism and not from the clergy.
6. Lay people have a duty to use their gifts for the good of the Church and the world.
7. Bishops and clergy should test the gifts to ensure that they are genuine. However, they should not quench the Spirit by an arbitrary use of authority.

So lay people are no longer supposed to be the passive recipients of clerical ministry. Rather, they are called and gifted to become active partners with the clergy in bringing the Good News into every aspect of secular life. The charisms can be used to revive the faith of the discouraged and lapsed and to evangelise unbelievers. They also have an important ecumenical dimension. The outpouring of the Spirit has been no respecter of denominational barriers. Happily, the gifts of the Spirit have been poured out on members of all the Churches. Through their common exercise, Christians are being drawn closer to Jesus and therefore to one another. So charisms have a unique ability to build bridges of unity, as I discovered when I lived in Northern Ireland for ten years. Thanks to the charismatic renewal. the following prayer of the late Pope Paul VI has been answered, at least in part, during the past twenty five memorable years. “How wonderful it would be if the Lord. would again pour out the charisms in increased abundance, in order to make the Church fruitful, beautiful and marvellous, and to enable it to win the attention and astonishment of the profane and secularised world.”

 

[VociMike]

So, does the Holy Spirit say one thing through the Church (e.g. Councils), and say something contradictory through charisms?

 

[stringbeanduck]

I’m very disturbed by the Life Teen Masses. It’s an insult to my intellect. Why, why does there need to be a “special” Mass for teens. Is the regular one just not good enough? My parents went to Latin and regular English Masses and they turned out fine. Why should this generation be any different? Unlike the rest of my peers, I can see through this thing. It is clearly a bribe to get more teens to come to Mass. Any1 here knows just as well as I do if the Vatican were to ban the LifeTeen Mass that there would be far less teens coming to Mass. Why? I’ll tell you why; because they value the LifeTeen part more than they do the Mass. It is a shame to me that people need to be bribed in order to get to Mass. 1hr out of da-gum week and it has to be filled with LifeTeen. It is design to suit the teen culture. Hmmm, last time I checked that 1hr should be on God; not some service to draw more teens to Mass. It isn’t about us, at all. It is strictly about God that we take 1hr out of the week to come to Mass.

 

[brigid12]

I’m very disturbed by the Life Teen Masses. It’s an insult to my intellect. Why, why does there need to be a “special” Mass for teens. Is the regular one just not good enough? My parents went to Latin and regular English Masses and they turned out fine. Why should this generation be any different? Unlike the rest of my peers, I can see through this thing. It is clearly a bribe to get more teens to come to Mass. Any1 here knows just as well as I do if the Vatican were to ban the LifeTeen Mass that there would be far less teens coming to Mass. Why? I’ll tell you why; because they value the LifeTeen part more than they do the Mass. It is a shame to me that people need to be bribed in order to get to Mass. 1hr out of da-gum week and it has to be filled with LifeTeen. It is design to suit the teen culture. Hmmm, last time I checked that 1hr should be on God; not some service to draw more teens to Mass. It isn’t about us, at all. It is strictly about God that we take 1hr out of the week to come to Mass.

I, for one, apologize that adults have insulted your intelligence - I do believe that many have done this in order to make sure that a number of souls are saved. Unfortunately, it seems to sometimes be a means for ensuring that subsequent generations worship as certain people would prefer - a control procedure, I guess.

But I don’t think there is a simple answer. I have two teenage daughters and one loves modern worship songs and the other much prefers very traditional music and liturgy. And perhaps that is the real warning - never think that one solution will fit everyone.

Maybe, now that the SP has been given to us, a LT-type program can be started using the EF?

 

[Sarabande]

Maybe, now that the SP has been given to us, a LT-type program can be started using the EF?

 

[dan]

:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

From your posts it appears your own horse is pretty high as well. I seem to recall that in your initial post on this thread you said that you assumed you would be bashed, Maybe you just got what you really wanted and were looking for.

Wow, 7 “crying” icons. Thank you for your mockery. I’m sure you’re quite amused with yourself.

 

[dan]

How sad that a few people’s dislike for LifeTeen makes you want to reject Christ’s Church. Can you not acknowledge that they have legitimate concerns about the way Life Teen masses are celebrated?

Our loyalty should be to Holy Mother Church first and foremost.

Of course I’m not thinking of leaving the church. It was sarcasm inspired by frustration.

Yesd, there is room for legitimate concerns. But I’m upset that people on this board seem to think it’s ok to:

1. Propose, without proof, that Life Teen was created as an excuse for a pedohpile priest to abuse teens.
2. Accuse those who support Life Teen of being more faithful to LT than church teaching.

 

[brigid12]

My parents went to Latin and regular English Masses and they turned out fine. Why should this generation be any different?

Well, I’m a boomer and our generation did really messed up! Your parents are the exception and not the rule. I agree with Solomon Wisdom and Sarabande that something needs to be done! Teens nowadays have much more to fight against in the culture than we did - drugs, promiscuity, technology allowing many more people occasions of sin, media that prefers the culture of death, legalized and accepted (by the majority of the US - at least in some cases) abortion, a very militant gay movement, etc., etc., etc.
Maybe strengthening both the EF and the doctrinal problems that the Charismatic Renewal have had? Just thoughts. I also agree that Transcendence is sorely needed by teens (and the rest of us). We need to realize that we need to follow both commandments. “Love the Lord Your God with all…” and “Love your neighbor as yourself”. We also need some clarity on the word Love - as the Holy Father wrote about - we need to hear his writings on this (and other things, IMHO ) from the pulpit.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Well, I’m a boomer and our generation did really messed up! Your parents are the exception and not the rule. I agree with Solomon Wisdom and Sarabande that something needs to be done! Teens nowadays have much more to fight against in the culture than we did - drugs, promiscuity, technology allowing many more people occasions of sin, media that prefers the culture of death, legalized and accepted (by the majority of the US - at least in some cases) abortion, a very militant gay movement, etc., etc., etc.
Maybe strengthening both the EF and the doctrinal problems that the Charismatic Renewal have had? Just thoughts. I also agree that Transcendence is sorely needed by teens (and the rest of us). We need to realize that we need to follow both commandments. “Love the Lord Your God with all…” and “Love your neighbor as yourself”. We also need some clarity on the word Love - as the Holy Father wrote about - we need to hear his writings on this (and other things, IMHO ) from the pulpit.

What we need is more youth functions more so in areas that have little or none. If you take the “LifeTeen” whatnot put it into the youth functions you’ll have an abundance of kids going to these things. During the youth functions, adult leaders should show the importance of the Mass and why it is important they celebrate it. I’ve studied teen culture and I know how they think.

Everybody likes a roll model some1 who is ‘cool’ and popular. There are teen Catholics who posses this quality. You need to find them and appoint them as youth leaders during the events. When teen Catholics see their popular friends active in the church, chances are they might come as well.

I’m telling you… You guys need to be clever and creative with these things as well. I only wish I had the ability to help out and set up youth groups but I’m already involved with a very active Parish. Perhaps when we(the family) move up to Michigan, I’ll be able to find a parish that needs help and offer my services there. See, when you have too many good and active Catholic teens in one area it doesn’t help the rest of the country. Some of us need to be spread out a little bit.

 

[brigid12]

What we need is more youth functions more so in areas that have little or none. If you take the “LifeTeen” whatnot put it into the youth functions you’ll have an abundance of kids going to these things. During the youth functions, adult leaders should show the importance of the Mass and why it is important they celebrate it. I’ve studied teen culture and I know how they think.

Everybody likes a roll model some1 who is ‘cool’ and popular. There are teen Catholics who posses this quality. You need to find them and appoint them as youth leaders during the events. When teen Catholics see their popular friends active in the church, chances are they might come as well.

I’m telling you… You guys need to be clever and creative with these things as well. I only wish I had the ability to help out and set up youth groups but I’m already involved with a very active Parish. Perhaps when we(the family) move up to Michigan, I’ll be able to find a parish that needs help and offer my services there. See, when you have too many good and active Catholic teens in one area it doesn’t help the rest of the country. Some of us need to be spread out a little bit.

Sounds great to me, along with correct catechesis (both from the pulpit and otherways) and more EFs available (with more reverence shown in the OF).

 

[benedictgal]

Of course I’m not thinking of leaving the church. It was sarcasm inspired by frustration.

Yesd, there is room for legitimate concerns. But I’m upset that people on this board seem to think it’s ok to:

1. Propose, without proof, that Life Teen was created as an excuse for a pedohpile priest to abuse teens.
2. Accuse those who support Life Teen of being more faithful to LT than church teaching.

Dan, I never raised the first point you mentioned. However, the second point is valid. I have seen a couple of movements whose members will vehemently defend their liturgical practices even though they are squarely against what Rome has mandated. A person can love a movement so much that they may not be able to take a step back, breathe deeply and objectively examine the movement.

Neither you nor any of the LifeTeen proponents have yet to answer my questions regarding the movement’s treatment of the Mass. Did this begin in 1985, when LifeTeen was founded? Why did the movement “feel” that it needed to amend the Mass?

Furthermore, have any efforts been made to integrate the solid traditions of the Church, including genuine sacred music, into the LifeTeen Mass or is it all Protestant Praise and Worship genre?

The music issue wasn’t just a concern of mine. As I told another poster in my reply to him, this concern was also raised by the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist.

 

[rkenward]

This will be a long post, but hopefully helpful. If not, you can ignore it or bash it.

I think it is short sighted to dismiss LifeTeen as a heretical organization to be avoided. I also think you all need to be prayerful on this and many other matters of our Faith. Coming across with half baked arguments gives the impression that your way is the only way. And before you say it, yes, I do know that Jesus is The Way, The Truth, and The Life and that we must listen to Pope Benedict and to what Cardinal Arinze has taught us about the universality of the Mass. If the Mass is being executed properly as defined by the Roman Missal albeit different from what is your cup of tea, it is just “not helpful” to people who want to be more faithful Catholics to see your “crankiness and anger”. I am not bashing anyone in particular. But, I do see some bitter attitudes frequently in this forum. For the life of me, I don’t understand MOST of the arguments. They don’t even make any sense to me half the time.

I don’t view the LifeTeen organization as being an agent of bad catechesis. There are two LifeTeen Masses in my area that I have attended including one in my hometown. My teenage daughter and I have attended a couple of the Masses and it is not really our cup of tea. But, I did not see anything irreverent. Different, but not in a way that invalidates it as a Mass. The music was not secular, it was what I consider to be worthy. The priests involved are loyal to our Archbishop.

There certainly is undeniably opportunities for abuse as there is for any member of the church. Some of the holier than though so called traditionalists have rejected Vatican II. Some want to invalidate anything before Vatican II. Both are wrong.

Let us not forget that the gates of Hell will not prevail over Jesus’ Church and that we have the Holy Spirit guiding us through the successors of the Apostles in union with the successor to Peter who was given the authority from Jesus.

The Sacifice of the Mass can’t happen without a validly ordained priest presumably loyal to his bishop who is presumably loyal to the Vicar of Christ, the Holy Father.

If the music is irreverent or if Mass is celebrated in any kind of disrespectful way, we should stand TOGETHER against that. I am certain that there are LifeTeen members who are in the “change the church from within croud” just as there are “traditionalists” who are in the “change the church from within crowd”.

There are many who are led astray because of improper catechesis and this comes from many different sources including those sources you may consider to be very holy. BTW- I DO NOT view EWTN or Catholic Answers as being agents of improper catechesis. Just the opposite. These groups are a positive agent in the Church and I think that of LifeTeen too.

There are teaching opportunities here. If you think your local LifeTeen is on the wrong path in danger of not being Catholic, band together with a few of your like minded friends and show them the right path. You may even be blessed to know that they are more like you than you think.

I will step back and prepare to be bashed…

 

[stringbeanduck]

lol Bashed, Nobody is going to bash you for what you said. BTW, welcome to CAF. I hope you stick around and offer your views and opinions elsewhere too.

 

[benedictgal]

I think it is short sighted to dismiss LifeTeen as a heretical organization to be avoided. I also think you all need to be prayerful on this and many other matters of our Faith. Coming across with half baked arguments gives the impression that your way is the only way. And before you say it, yes, I do know that Jesus is The Way, The Truth, and The Life and that we must listen to Pope Benedict and to what Cardinal Arinze has taught us about the universality of the Mass. If the Mass is being executed properly as defined by the Roman Missal albeit different from what is your cup of tea, it is just “not helpful” to people who want to be more faithful Catholics to see your “crankiness and anger”. I am not bashing anyone in particular. But, I do see some bitter attitudes frequently in this forum. For the life of me, I don’t understand MOST of the arguments. They don’t even make any sense to me half the time.

I don’t view the LifeTeen organization as being an agent of bad catechesis. There are two LifeTeen Masses in my area that I have attended including one in my hometown. My teenage daughter and I have attended a couple of the Masses and it is not really our cup of tea. But, I did not see anything irreverent. Different, but not in a way that invalidates it as a Mass. The music was not secular, it was what I consider to be worthy. The priests involved are loyal to our Archbishop.

There certainly is undeniably opportunities for abuse as there is for any member of the church. Some of the holier than though so called traditionalists have rejected Vatican II. Some want to invalidate anything before Vatican II. Both are wrong.

Let us not forget that the gates of Hell will not prevail over Jesus’ Church and that we have the Holy Spirit guiding us through the successors of the Apostles in union with the successor to Peter who was given the authority from Jesus.

The Sacifice of the Mass can’t happen without a validly ordained priest presumably loyal to his bishop who is presumably loyal to the Vicar of Christ, the Holy Father.

If the music is irreverent or if Mass is celebrated in any kind of disrespectful way, we should stand TOGETHER against that. I am certain that there are LifeTeen members who are in the “change the church from within croud” just as there are “traditionalists” who are in the “change the church from within crowd”.

There are teaching opportunities here. If you think your local LifeTeen is on the wrong path in danger of not being Catholic, band together with a few of your like minded friends and show them the right path. You may even be blessed to know that they are more like you than you think.

While I can understand your point, there are some very legitimate concerns that exist with this particular movement, specifically with the way they treat the Mass. The music is problematic. Again, I direct your attention to what the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist noted when they said that the music used at Youth Masses was problematic. Pope Benedict responded by saying that as far as the Mass was concerned, one song wasn’t just as good as another.

Furthermore, none of the proponents have yet to answer my questions regarding why the movement wanted to amend the Mass. Inasmuch as Rome told the movement to cease the deviant practices of gathering around the altar and having an alternative ending to the Mass, these changes were met with disappointment from the group, as evidenced in a couple of news articles and in Jimmy Aikin’s blog, the latter I quoted in a previous post.

Yes, the Lord made assurances that the gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church. That is the guarantee he made to St. Peter and His Successors. However, sometimes the harm can come from within and that is a legitimate concern.

Incidentally, movements like the Neocatechumenal Way have made the same arguments to justify their treatment of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. However, Pope Benedict put a stop to this by giving them two years to clean up their abuses. Many of them resisted, as noted in a report from the online magazine, Chiesa. Even some folks down here in my diocese were resistant to the decree. Only after they did this was their charter finally approved.

A movement can have the best of intentions, but, when they start wanting to amend the Mass to suit its particular group, then that is where the problems arise.

The other problem with these “tailor-made” Masses lies in the fact that once the kids “grow out” of this kind of a liturgy, what are they going to fall back on? What have they been exposed to as far as the Traditions of the Church are concerned, especially where sacred music is concerned? Are they not aware that they are not the only ones assisting at the Mass and that they are joined by the angels and the other members of the Church, the Church Triumphant and the Church suffering? Are they not taught that the veil between heaven and earth and time and space is lifted at every Mass and that we are just as present as the Blessed Mother and Sts. John and Mary Magdalene?

Furthermore, the Church is called to be within the world, but not from it. We are called to be counter-cultural and yet the music used at these Masses is very much a part of the secular culture in style and poor in substance, no matter how vehemently the proponents of this movement defend it.

We would be doing a terrible disservice by giving these young people a watered-down version of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and of the Faith.

 

[rkenward]

While I can understand your point, there are some very legitimate concerns that exist with this particular movement, specifically with the way they treat the Mass. The music is problematic. Again, I direct your attention to what the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist noted when they said that the music used at Youth Masses was problematic. Pope Benedict responded by saying that as far as the Mass was concerned, one song wasn’t just as good as another.

Furthermore, none of the proponents have yet to answer my questions regarding why the movement wanted to amend the Mass. Inasmuch as Rome told the movement to cease the deviant practices of gathering around the altar and having an alternative ending to the Mass, these changes were met with disappointment from the group, as evidenced in a couple of news articles and in Jimmy Aikin’s blog, the latter I quoted in a previous post.

Yes, the Lord made assurances that the gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church. That is the guarantee he made to St. Peter and His Successors. However, sometimes the harm can come from within and that is a legitimate concern.

Incidentally, movements like the Neocatechumenal Way have made the same arguments to justify their treatment of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. However, Pope Benedict put a stop to this by giving them two years to clean up their abuses. Many of them resisted, as noted in a report from the online magazine, Chiesa. Even some folks down here in my diocese were resistant to the decree. Only after they did this was their charter finally approved.

A movement can have the best of intentions, but, when they start wanting to amend the Mass to suit its particular group, then that is where the problems arise.

The other problem with these “tailor-made” Masses lies in the fact that once the kids “grow out” of this kind of a liturgy, what are they going to fall back on? What have they been exposed to as far as the Traditions of the Church are concerned, especially where sacred music is concerned? Are they not aware that they are not the only ones assisting at the Mass and that they are joined by the angels and the other members of the Church, the Church Triumphant and the Church suffering? Are they not taught that the veil between heaven and earth and time and space is lifted at every Mass and that we are just as present as the Blessed Mother and Sts. John and Mary Magdalene?

Furthermore, the Church is called to be within the world, but not from it. We are called to be counter-cultural and yet the music used at these Masses is very much a part of the secular culture in style and poor in substance, no matter how vehemently the proponents of this movement defend it.

We would be doing a terrible disservice by giving these young people a watered-down version of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and of the Faith.

Cardinal Arinze makes some good commentary on the 2005 Synod of Bishops in this interview…
insidethevatican.com/newsflash-nov-12-05.htm
He mentions about how music geared toward entertainment and football stadiums should not be introduced in Mass. If LifeTeen as an organization in fact promotes an agenda to change the Mass into an entertainment venue stripping away the true meaning of the Mass in which we as a united Church (Triumphant, Millitant, and Suffering) along with the angels offer up adoration to God in union with the sacrifice of Christ in an unbloody manner, then shame on them. If that is true, then shame on them and the priests who are promoting it should be reported to their Bishops.

If LifeTeen has Mass that is not irreverent, doesn’t seek to invalidate the true liturgical sacrifice, although it may be different, I have no issues. The music should be chosen wisely and approved by the Bishop. If the Bishop is on top of things, there should be minimal opportunity for abuse.

My point was that I don’t see LifeTeen isn’t a bad organization. I don’t know, maybe there ARE legions of people working in cooperation with dissident priests that have a bad agenda to break off into a faction and attempt to change the Mass. But, if that is the case, then that wouldn’t be a valid Mass, it would be a worship service and the creation of yet another denomination acting outside of the authority of the Church. If the local Bishop determines that LifeTeen Masses are not valid, it is his duty to step in and take action including barring them from parishes.

That should be a call to action for us to help those people being led astray.

I see and understand your points. But, I don’t make the connection. How is LifeTeen going to succeed in changing the Mass? The Mass isn’t valid if offered by lay people, The priests and bishops aren’t going to allow this to happen. If they do, this is nothing new, it is called Protestentism.

By the way, not all praise and worship music is bad. The Archdiocese of Boston sanctioned by Cardinal OMalley has a worship outsite the Mass group called LIFT only one of the many programs in the Young Adult Ministries office in the Archdiocese oymboston.org/yam/html/youngadult.html. If LifeTeen Masses are getting out of hand in the sense that the Bishop determines that they are not valid, teens should be led towards these LIFT type groups. That is, as long as they don’t think that it replaces the Sunday obligation. Again, these things can’t happen without being sanctioned by the Bishop. This is why we love Cardinal Sean here in Boston.

 

[brigid12]

Cardinal Arinze makes some good commentary on the 2005 Synod of Bishops in this interview…
insidethevatican.com/newsflash-nov-12-05.htm
He mentions about how music geared toward entertainment and football stadiums should not be introduced in Mass. If LifeTeen as an organization in fact promotes an agenda to change the Mass into an entertainment venue stripping away the true meaning of the Mass in which we as a united Church (Triumphant, Millitant, and Suffering) along with the angels offer up adoration to God in union with the sacrifice of Christ in an unbloody manner, then shame on them. If that is true, then shame on them and the priests who are promoting it should be reported to their Bishops.

And when teens (when they become too old for LT) go to Mass expecting entertainment and a rock concert, they will stop going to Mass or go to a protestant church where they can get this. Then, at Judgement, what will we tell Jesus? When the adults that run it don’t even pay attention to the words in songs, and when they finally do, don’t even see what’s wrong with some of the words? Talk about poor catechesis (of both the teens and the leaders)!

By the way, not all praise and worship music is bad. The Archdiocese of Boston sanctioned by Cardinal OMalley has a worship outsite the Mass group called LIFT only one of the many programs in the Young Adult Ministries office in the Archdiocese oymboston.org/yam/html/youngadult.html.

Your right here! I really like a little of it, just not in Mass. There, I’d much prefer going along with the Popes and Councils - Gregorian chant.

 

[brigid12]

Pride of place is not a synonym for exclusive use nor mandatory use, nor even may not use others. Your question therefore, is a non-sequitor, as the obligation is not on a per mass basis.

To me, “pride of place” would mean it’s available in more than a few regular Masses in this country and available in some LT Masses.
Is Gregorian chant even mentioned in the LT booklets?

 

[cradlecatholic4]

LF is not just for teens. In fact, we have a number of families, adults, seniors, etc., who participate in LT mass. Hey, I’ve got an idea – why don’t we just throw out the Church of today and tomorrow, alienate the teens, then beat our breasts, weep, and moan over why we have no young people in our church to carry on the traditions and rituals of the church – much like we’ve done over the past 40 years. Have you ever asked your self what the Church has done for our young adults after they graduate from high school. Well let me tell you, the answer is next to nothing. I suppose we could just force them to go to a Latin mass and they could go through a mass that has no recognizable parts and in a language they won’t understand. Now that my friends that is a great way to keep them interested. A majority of Cahtolic teens worldwide don’t have access to the mega catholic chuches where all sorts of programs are offered.

I disagree that most music at a LT mass is evil and contrary to the meaning of the mass. While the church is not a democracy, it does change. LT may be a small part of that change. I can only speak for our LT masses. Other than the music played at most Sunday masses, it is exactly what you would experience in your church.

Ponder this! If it came down to it, would you go to a LT mass on Sunday and holy days if that were the only mass available to you, or would you just not go at all. The answer is – you would go. If you didn’t what kind of a Catholic would that make you? Although if you went to a LT mass, wouldn’t that make you a hypocrite? I suspect if you critics didn’t speak French yet were in France you would go to a Catholic mass. You wouldn’t have a clue what you just participated in, but you would go and feel good about “meeting your Sunday obligation”.

LT may not be for you but it is not in conflict with the Church on the mass. Again, if it were the only mass available to you, WOULD YOU GO? If you say you would go, then this discussion is over - put in the ear plugs before you go in and grit your teeth.

 

[benedictgal]

LF is not just for teens. In fact, we have a number of families, adults, seniors, etc., who participate in LT mass. Hey, I’ve got an idea – why don’t we just throw out the Church of today and tomorrow, alienate the teens, then beat our breasts, weep, and moan over why we have no young people in our church to carry on the traditions and rituals of the church – much like we’ve done over the past 40 years. Have you ever asked your self what the Church has done for our young adults after they graduate from high school. Well let me tell you, the answer is next to nothing. I suppose we could just force them to go to a Latin mass and they could go through a mass that has no recognizable parts and in a language they won’t understand. Now that my friends that is a great way to keep them interested. A majority of Cahtolic teens worldwide don’t have access to the mega catholic chuches where all sorts of programs are offered.

I disagree that most music at a LT mass is evil and contrary to the meaning of the mass. While the church is not a democracy, it does change. LT may be a small part of that change. I can only speak for our LT masses. Other than the music played at most Sunday masses, it is exactly what you would experience in your church.

Ponder this! If it came down to it, would you go to a LT mass on Sunday and holy days if that were the only mass available to you, or would you just not go at all. The answer is – you would go. If you didn’t what kind of a Catholic would that make you? Although if you went to a LT mass, wouldn’t that make you a hypocrite? I suspect if you critics didn’t speak French yet were in France you would go to a Catholic mass. You wouldn’t have a clue what you just participated in, but you would go and feel good about “meeting your Sunday obligation”.

LT may not be for you but it is not in conflict with the Church on the mass. Again, if it were the only mass available to you, WOULD YOU GO? If you say you would go, then this discussion is over - put in the ear plugs before you go in and grit your teeth.

But, the Church didn’t happen 40 years ago. With all due respect, I think that we need to take a step back and divorce the emotional attachment and arguments and concentrate on the discussion objectively.

The concerns that many of us have raised are legitimate, yet, none of the LifeTeen proponents have yet to answer them. The Mass is not some free form expression of creativity. In a previous post, you extolled the virtues of “thinking outside the box”. Maybe that approach can work with the program’s catechetical aspect, but, not within the confines of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Furthermore, young people today are hungry for substance and for stability. Believe it or not, many of the folks attending the Latin Mass are the same age group that LifeTeen is targeting. In fact, at the WYD in Cologne, the group Juventum, made up of youngsters who follow the Latin Mass, had a huge gathering, presided over by the former Prefect for the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Francis Cardinal Arinze. This included Benediction.

Your bringing up of the issue of language has no relevance here. The Mass, celebrated correctly and obedient to the norms and prescriptions of the Church, is the same Holy Sacrifice, whether one is in France, Rome, Mexico or in mid-town Manhattan. Language, in and of itself, bears no significance. Besides, with publications like Magnificat, it’s not that hard to follow the Mass along. I will sometimes listen to the Papal Mas broadcast on Vatican Radio when I can’t watch it on EWTN. Often, the broadcast is in Italian. However, I can follow along with what is happening. Granted, I do have a rudimentary understanding of Italian, I am familiar with the Mass to know what is happening when.

Regarding the mega Catholic churches, please define what you mean by that. We certainly don’t have such a venue down here in South Texas. In fact, our neighbors to the north in San Antonio and in Austin don’t have any, nor does Corpus Christi (and, we were part of that diocese for almost 90 years). Quite frankly, the closest thing that I have ever observed, at least via satellite, to a mega Catholic Church is St. Peter’s Basilica at the Vatican. I don’t see Pope Benedict doing anything remotely similar to LifeTeen. He is offering substance and Tradition, not style. That is what all of us, young and old, man and woman, seek.