Defending Life Teen!

[RyanML]

I’ve found, Dan, that many Catholics feel much the same about the Eastern Churches in Union with Rome.

It’s a sad side effect of the Hospital for Sinners effect. Many forget the church is to be a hospital for sinners, not a haven for saints, and in forgetting this, forget that they, too, would be excluded from the haven for saints.

I can not imagine that any well informed Catholic would have a problem with the Eastern rites. They are beautiful and very much a part of the Church’s tradition that is ever ancient and ever new. The same can certainly NOT be said of Lifeteen. God bless!

 

[Matariel]

Most the young people I know (myself included) actually prefer the Extraördinary form of the Mass, or a reverent Novus Ordo, anyway…

 

[palmas85]

Well, I got an even worse story for you. There’s one particular very popular religous movement I’m aware of where the one of the twelve original members of the group ended up actually selling out the founder of the group for 30 silver coins. He ended up feeling so guilty that he committed suicide. The founder, as well, found himself convicted of a capital crime and was sentenced to death. What a scandal!

Perhaps we should all steer clear of that particular religous movement. Nothing good could come from it.

Comparing the Lifeteen founders to Christ and the Apostles?

I think you pretty much validated my contention that some Lifeteen followers have a stronger devotion to the movement than to the Church.

 

[dan]

Comparing the Lifeteen founders to Christ and the Apostles?
I think you pretty much validated my contention that some Lifeteen followers have a stronger devotion to the movement than to the Church.

Starting this thread was definitely a mistake. I forgot how much more Catholic than me everyone else on this board is.

Perhaps someday I’ll be as holy as you and many of the people who post here, and I’ll be able to look down on others from my high horse, as well.

Time to for me to take a hiatus this board. It makes me not want to be Catholic.

 

[Matariel]

Starting this thread was definitely a mistake. I forgot how much more Catholic than me everyone else on this board is.

Give me a break! What’s with the persecution complex? Noöne said you’re less Catholic than everyone else!

Time to for me to take a hiatus this board. It makes me not want to be Catholic.

“Makes you not want to be Catholic”? Just because people don’t think Lifeteen is a good idea? Give me a break! Lighten up. It sounds like you started this thread, just to get your opinion validated, instead of listening to both sides of the story.

Just because people don’t validate your opinion doesn’t mean you throw a fit and say “this makes me not want to be Catholic”?

Give me a break. :nope:

 

[TotalResolve]

It seems that the Life Teen program isn’t too popular with many people on these forums. The recent news of the Life Teen founder being excommunicated has seemed to embolden some of LT’s critics here.

Most of the criticism I see of Life Teen on this board have to do with the music. It seems that many here have the mistaken idea that loud music is the cornerstone of Life Teen. Anyone who’s ever had any meaningful involvement with the Life Teen program (and not just heard about or attended a couple LT masses) would know this is not true.

The Life Teen program is extremely faithful to church teaching. The “Life Night” teaching materials are filled to the brim with Scripture and Catechism citations, as well as references to church documents.

Life Teen, like any church program, can be utilized well or utilized poorly at the local parish level. Our parish is currently teaching a Life Teen semester that’s focused on the seven Sacraments. My particular Life Teen team will be teaching a whole night about the Real Presence in the Eucharist.

Anyone who thinks that Life Teen is just “Protestantism” or “entertainment” wrapped up in a Catholic package doesn’t have any significant knowledge of the program. But it seems that ignorance of what Life Teen is really about doesn’t stop many people here from sharing their opinion about it.

Some of us on this board seem to forget that there is room for legitimate diversity within Catholic spirituality. Just because charismatic “Praise & Worship” type music or programs like Life Teen aren’t your thing, it doesn’t mean it’s bad for everyone. I’m often disappointed when reading this forum and seeing how so many people seem to have the attitude that the way they practice their Catholic faith and the their musical or spiritual preferences are the “real” Catholic way.

What’s so wrong with saying, “Well, Life Teen doesn’t seem to be something I’d dig, but if they’re faithful to church teaching and trying to do something good for the church, God Bless them?”

(I assume now that I will be bashed. I assume that folks will check out my profile and my blog and determine whether I’m Catholic enough for their standards. Feel free.)

God Bless,
Dan

When the Mass of Pope Paul VI is abused (with or without LT’s embellishments) some tend to attack the perfectly licit Mass design and not the abuses. Sometimes they will even say that the approved Mass is bad because it facilitates abuses. Both views must be taken with a grain of salt. Good for you for showing a counter position.

I went to a Tridentine Mass last Sunday. It was a low Mass and the priest ripped right through it in 40 minutes I don’t think he was intentionally being abusive, that’s just the way he celebrated that form for the Mass for decades (he’s 83.) Then again I would not judge the Tridentine Mass based on that experience.

There is a lot of urban legend out there. Good that you looked past it.

 

[celticsfan1983]

I know entertainment value isn’t the reason why we go to Mass, but if these Lifeteen masses are getting teens to go to Mass, that should be a good thing. I don’t care how someone is being brought to God, as long as their being brought to God.

And if we don’t offer a Mass with Praise and Worship music that 13-18-year-olds really enjoy, then they’ll start going to other churches with friends because they can “identify.” Maybe these Lifeteen masses help kids grow closer to God, more so than they would at another Mass setting.

Feeling like you belong is of utmost importance to kids, right above food and shelter sometimes. I know I can’t lump every teen into this category, but it seems that Lifeteen masses are doing something wonderful for the faith.

Dan, don’t get discouraged. For every person that makes you “not want to be a Catholic,” there is another person who will make you smile and be proud to share the faith with them.

Speaking of Lifeteen, heard Mark Hart, the Bible Geek, on Lino Rulli’s The Catholic Guy show on SiriusXM. What an outstanding man.

 

[TotalResolve]

Most the young people I know (myself included) actually prefer the Extraördinary form of the Mass, or a reverent Novus Ordo, anyway…

Most young people I know attend the Mass of Pope Paul VI here, In fact if I do a bit of figuring it is at least 1000:1 in favor of the Ordinary Form of the Mass.

When I attend the Tridentine Mass, there are typically few kids/teens in attendance.

I don’t think those who attend the LT Masses spend much time thinking about the EF Mass or those who prefer it. The reverse is clearly not true. There is some significance to that.

 

[Feanor]

Dan,

How can you say you are tempted to not be catholic? You are indeed studying to be a religious? In any case Dan, I love the pic. of the Holy Father with the beer in his hand! I did hear that he occasionally indulges.

Drums and electric guitars in Church- that’s just crazy! Let me stress that though I certainly respect the EF of the Eucharist I am not a real traditionalist. I do like Mass in the OF to be reverent though. I thought, or hoped that the Glory and Praise music was on the way out?

Other posters can’t we please refer to the different rites by their proper names- the OF and EF. The term Novus Ordo is derogatory. Those that use the term will argue this but they know what they mean when they write/say it.

On another note- I wouldn’t want my eventual child to participate in the LifeTeen movement.

 

[TotalResolve]

Other posters can’t we please refer to the different rites by their proper names- the OF and EF. The term Novus Ordo is derogatory. Those that use the term well argue this but they know what they mean when they write/say it.

That is a good point. Our current Pope gave us the easy to remember names of Ordinary and Extraordinary Forms of the Mass.

In real life when someone refers to the OF as the “Novus Ordo Mass” (or worse “NO Mass”) I simply walk away because I do not chat with people who show bigotry for the OF.

 

[TotalResolve]

I do sympathize with the OP…

He did not post this on the traditional forum yet people just had to bring up the Tridentine Mass rather than staying on point.

 

[TotalResolve]

I’ve found, Dan, that many Catholics feel much the same about the Eastern Churches in Union with Rome.

As do a great number of Eastern Catholics towards the Latin Rite.

 

[Feanor]

I love the eastern Churches! Especially the Coptic. You wont find any drums or guitars there!

We could learn quite a bit from them.

 

[kage_ar]

Sometimes I am amazed.

LifeTeen is not a Starbucks Franchise, where somebody comes in and sets up a youth group and schedules a Mass and manages it from the corporate level.

LifeTeen does not send out inspectors to Parishes to make sure that the Parishes are operating the plan according to all guidelines - they would have to have a huge staff and a corporate type budget for that.

Parishes purchase packets of literature and materials from LifeTeen, and they implement in the Parish. It will be exactly as orthodox or flaky as the people (99.9999999% volunteers) who run the program at the PARISH LEVEL. If you do not like the way LifeTeen is run at your Parish, volunteer to be part of the team and work to have things changes. If you are not willing to volunteer, then, thank the people who are willing to spend hours of unpaid time to provide something for the teenagers in your Parish.

 

[RyanML]

Most young people I know attend the Mass of Pope Paul VI here, In fact if I do a bit of figuring it is at least 1000:1 in favor of the Ordinary Form of the Mass.

When I attend the Tridentine Mass, there are typically few kids/teens in attendance.

I don’t think those who attend the LT Masses spend much time thinking about the EF Mass or those who prefer it. The reverse is clearly not true. There is some significance to that.

Many people began attending the Traditional Mass because they were sick of being scandalized by the irreverence and abuses at Masses such as those of Lifeteen. Atleast that was my experience. Most kids that attend Lifeteen wouldn’t even know the difference i’m afraid.

 

[RyanML]

Sometimes I am amazed.

LifeTeen is not a Starbucks Franchise, where somebody comes in and sets up a youth group and schedules a Mass and manages it from the corporate level.

LifeTeen does not send out inspectors to Parishes to make sure that the Parishes are operating the plan according to all guidelines - they would have to have a huge staff and a corporate type budget for that.

Parishes purchase packets of literature and materials from LifeTeen, and they implement in the Parish. It will be exactly as orthodox or flaky as the people (99.9999999% volunteers) who run the program at the PARISH LEVEL. If you do not like the way LifeTeen is run at your Parish, volunteer to be part of the team and work to have things changes. If you are not willing to volunteer, then, thank the people who are willing to spend hours of unpaid time to provide something for the teenagers in your Parish.

I do not doubt the sincerity of those who work with the youth through the Lifeteen program, but people can be sincerely misguided. I was not a team member (I was too young) but i did try and be an example to my peers by kneeling during the consecration while everyone else was standing and I talked with the team members about liturgical norms and what the Church taught concerning the Mass. Nobody took me seriously, so eventually i gave up on Lifeteen.

 

[Sarabande]

That is a good point. Our current Pope gave us the easy to remember names of Ordinary and Extraordinary Forms of the Mass.

In real life when someone refers to the OF as the “Novus Ordo Mass” (or worse “NO Mass”) I simply walk away because I do not chat with people who show bigotry for the OF.

This is a good point especially when referring to these masses on the boards, but please realize that there are many people in real life who uses “Novus Ordo” not as a derogatory reason, but because that is how they’ve heard it be referred to for years. Before I ever knew about the EF and that there was anything different than the OF, I heard people refer to the OF as the “Novus Ordo” mass or the “NO” mass. Even one of our old mass booklets from the 80s refer to it as the Novus Ordo mass. These were people - priests included - who were very happy with the OF, some of whom did not want to have us kids know anything about the EF. So, it’s probably best that we don’t immediately assume the worst of the other person when they do refer to the OF as the NO. I for one, was one of them who never knew it was even considered a bad word until being on these boards.

Besides those many Catholics who meant nothing wrong with using Novus Ordo because that is what they heard growing up, etc. there are also many Catholics, who don’t get into posting on boards or doing any more than attending mass and having a private prayer life or hardly any at all, who don’t even know what EF or OF stands for and may have once or twice heard Novus Ordo. If you didn’t go to Catholic school or didn’t really pay attention in religion class, those are things that people may not really remember. Many of my family members - especially those in the baby boomer era - wouldn’t know what the official names were for each mass. They remember one was in Latin and the other in English, but that’s about it.

 

[palmas85]

Starting this thread was definitely a mistake. I forgot how much more Catholic than me everyone else on this board is.

Perhaps someday I’ll be as holy as you and many of the people who post here, and I’ll be able to look down on others from my high horse, as well.

Time to for me to take a hiatus this board. It makes me not want to be Catholic.

:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

From your posts it appears your own horse is pretty high as well. I seem to recall that in your initial post on this thread you said that you assumed you would be bashed, Maybe you just got what you really wanted and were looking for.

 

[palmas85]

Sometimes I am amazed.

LifeTeen is not a Starbucks Franchise, where somebody comes in and sets up a youth group and schedules a Mass and manages it from the corporate level.

LifeTeen does not send out inspectors to Parishes to make sure that the Parishes are operating the plan according to all guidelines - they would have to have a huge staff and a corporate type budget for that.

Parishes purchase packets of literature and materials from LifeTeen, and they implement in the Parish. It will be exactly as orthodox or flaky as the people (99.9999999% volunteers) who run the program at the PARISH LEVEL. If you do not like the way LifeTeen is run at your Parish, volunteer to be part of the team and work to have things changes. If you are not willing to volunteer, then, thank the people who are willing to spend hours of unpaid time to provide something for the teenagers in your Parish.

Then perhaps the whole conceptof Lifeteen needs to be re-thought. Maybe they should not allow their name to be used by groups that do not promote orthodox Catholic teachings.

 

[Sarabande]

Can anyone answer my question that I posted below? Are there any LT masses that use and promote Latin and chant or other traditional forms of the mass? I’m not talking about having an EF mass, although that probably would have been something I would have been interested in when I was a teenager. I’m just talking about a regular OF mass, perhaps using P&W music before or after the mass rather than during, in order to teach teenagers reverence during mass, but yet also acknowledge that there is that kind of religious music out there for teens (those teens who enjoy it as not all teens find it enjoyable) which can be enjoyed in other ways. Even if they mix it up until the kids get used to it, that would be fine as well.

I’m not putting down LT. Even though I had a bad experience with it when I was a teen, I do realize it has been a number of years since being to one. It just seems like whenever I do ask this question, it never gets answered.

My question is this. Are there Life Teen masses which do promote Latin and chant? If not, why can’t they incorporate it into their model? It just seems as if they only promote P&W, as if all teens go for that stuff. Why can’t they have a mix, or better yet, have a more solemn and reverent mass, then use the P&W either before mass begins and/or after mass?