Defending Life Teen!

[palmas85]

I do sympathize with the OP…

He did not post this on the traditional forum yet people just had to bring up the Tridentine Mass rather than staying on point.

It is probably exactly why he posted it on the Traditional forum. Why else would he post it here?

 

[Sarabande]

If you do not like the way LifeTeen is run at your Parish, volunteer to be part of the team and work to have things changes. If you are not willing to volunteer, then, thank the people who are willing to spend hours of unpaid time to provide something for the teenagers in your Parish.

I agree with this. As my mother always said in regards to government, if you want to change the system, you have to be in the system. We don’t have LT at our parish. There are a lot of college students and young working professionals like myself and my husband, but they are not the kind of people who are into that kind of ministry. Otherwise the college students would be going to mass at their local Newman Centers on the campuses around the city. I do wonder, though, what it would be like if something like that was started at our parish. hmmm… perhaps we could be the first LT parish that did promote Latin and chant, unless of course it was forbidden. We do a Latin OF mass at our parish, so it wouldn’t be forbidden there.

That said, having been a volunteer and paid employee at various parishes, clicks and politics are just as strong in the these parishes as they are in secular institutions. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but if you are the only voice out there trying to make the change the other lay people/volunteers and even the pastor is against it, you really don’t have much footing. I’ve known a few people with the kindest and best intentions (and who were very good people besides that) be broken down by the clicks and politics by either the lay people there or even by the pastors there. They either just end up going with the flow even though they hate it, or leave the ministry all together. A person would need to be very strong mentally and emotionally to take on a click.

 

[ChristinaM]

Starting this thread was definitely a mistake. I forgot how much more Catholic than me everyone else on this board is.

Perhaps someday I’ll be as holy as you and many of the people who post here, and I’ll be able to look down on others from my high horse, as well.

Time to for me to take a hiatus this board. It makes me not want to be Catholic.

How sad that a few people’s dislike for LifeTeen makes you want to reject Christ’s Church. Can you not acknowledge that they have legitimate concerns about the way Life Teen masses are celebrated?

Our loyalty should be to Holy Mother Church first and foremost.

 

[kage_ar]

Then perhaps the whole conceptof Lifeteen needs to be re-thought. Maybe they should not allow their name to be used by groups that do not promote orthodox Catholic teachings.

How does one determine that the group is Orthodox? Visiting the group and attending a Mass would be the only way to do it.

LifeTeen has over 1000 groups now.

There are 52 Sunday Masses in a year.

Let’s say LT hires these inspectors, and with vacation, training, sickness, holidays, each inspector can travel 45 weeks out of the year. Since the math comes out to a fraction, we will make one guy work some extra weeks each year…

If we want to visit each group once a year, we now need an inspector staff of 22 people. So, you are going to pay them a decent wage, benefits are expensive now, so, we will say beni’s included each employee costs LT $70K per year.

We now have a annual payroll for inspectors of just a little over $1.5 million per year.

These people have to travel, so, we will estimate $1,000 per week in travel expenses. $22k per week is almost another million per year in travel expenses.

We have not even talked about a manager for these inspectors…

I seriously doubt that LifeTeen gets enough in donations to have an inspector staff. So, they, like every other lay ministry, must depend on the Faith of those in the Parishes.

 

[Sarabande]

How does one determine that the group is Orthodox? Visiting the group and attending a Mass would be the only way to do it.

I wonder if LT could get volunteer Catholics in the surrounding areas to do these inspections at the parishes. Maybe college students or even teens who are more mature. Perhaps parents or other people not involved with running LT so that they have a more unbiased view of the group in their parish. They could then write up reports.

Maybe even doing this. Have an on-line or paper evaluation which participants of the group can submit their evaluation of the program itself and the people running the program. It would give the pastors and LT a better idea of what is working or not and who is truly living up to LT’s policies. Sort of like how college students do evaluations of their professors or grad student teachers. I think they’re helpful, don’t cost much and can help with making it a better and more tightly-run program in more parishes.

Although I don’t doubt that there are good LT programs out there, there are also bad ones, as evidenced by people on here and people that I know personally who experienced it first-hand. Perhaps just reevaluating and overhauling how they oversee the programs in the 1000+ parishes, it might receive less criticism, and maybe more praise in the future. Something seems to be broken there if there is so much criticism and concern regarding the program - yet it has the potential of a being a very good one for some teens. Wouldn’t it be helpful to try to evaluate and overhaul where needed? (I will grant that they did get rid of gathering around the altar, which was prevalent in my LT group as a teen, but more still needs to be done.)

 

[FrDavid96]

Then perhaps the whole conceptof Lifeteen needs to be re-thought. Maybe they should not allow their name to be used by groups that do not promote orthodox Catholic teachings.

palmas85,
I must slightly disagree with you on this one. I think the greater problem is not the lifeteen business (indeed it is a commercial enterprise) allowing their name to be associated with the illicit practices; I believe the greater problem lies in the parishes which allow their names to be associated with these practices.

Any movement which has to go to such great lengths to defend it’s Catholicity and is constantly claiming that in spite of what so many people perceive, they are in fact Catholic, is very much suspect in my opinion. If they were in reality as Catholic as they claim to be, there would be no need to defend themselves.

 

[brigid12]

Our loyalty should be to Holy Mother Church first and foremost.

If it is a positive fruit, that is.

 

[kage_ar]

palmas85,
I must slightly disagree with you on this one. I think the greater problem is not the lifeteen business (indeed it is a commercial enterprise)

Life Teen is a 501(c)(3) non-profit.

 

[Sarabande]

Any movement which has to go to such great lengths to defend it’s Catholicity and is constantly claiming that in spite of what so many people perceive, they are in fact Catholic, is very much suspect in my opinion. If they were in reality as Catholic as they claim to be, there would be no need to defend themselves.

That’s what I don’t understand. When something like this receives this much criticism, and the same kind of criticism, from their own kind (i.e. Catholics), to me that is something that needs to be reevaluated, refined and/or changed where needed. If it was receiving this kind of criticism from the outside, that would be a different story.

One thing I’ve learned about criticism from my own peers in music is that when the criticism of certain things in one’s technique or performace is pretty much the same with all your peers, then it would be a wise thing to reevaluate what you are doing wrong. You do it on your own or go to your teacher or coach to help you. Of course, there will always be a critique here and there, which can be construed at that point as preference in technique, but when it is continual amongst many people from your same realm who loves music just as much as you do, you know that there is a problem and it must be addressed and fixed. We can try to defend ourselves and our technique all we want, but it doesn’t make us better musicians if we never truly evaluate ourselves and our technique to be certain there really isn’t something wrong going on. It also just makes us bitter and resentful of our peers - and maybe cut our career short because of a bad technique. I mean, gosh, I would never have progressed or evolved if I didn’t listen to my teachers or friends or other respected musicians.

The same with groups like LT or other Catholic organizations. They need to listen to the critiques of their peers - other Catholics who love their faith just as much as the people running the organizations. If they continue to hear the same thing and it begins to sound like a broken record and they even feel like they are becoming a broken record with their defense of the organization, maybe it’s time to reevaluate and evolve. It would stop the bad feelings between the two.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

I went to a LT mass and found it not for me, but since a priest was there and nothing weird was happening like a Fr. Richard Rohr bongo and dancing girl procession, I chalked it up to personal preferences. This is where it stays, no protesting, no 95 theses against LT nailed to the door, but I will mention to the pastor that the founders were excommunicated. Food for thought as to what the motivation may have been. Not my call though.

 

[Aramis]

I can not imagine that any well informed Catholic would have a problem with the Eastern rites. They are beautiful and very much a part of the Church’s tradition that is ever ancient and ever new. The same can certainly NOT be said of Lifeteen. God bless!

Several former officers of my Knights of Columbus council reject the idea that there can be such things as eastern rites of the Catholic Church.

I know a couple latin priests who are upset that there is a Byzantine Catholic Parish, and one who said flat out he feels it wrong to move from the Roman to an Eastern Rite.

They also hold in disregard the provisions of the Anglican Use, and even the EF… “Rome changed it, so they should just get over it” is something I’ve heard from members of the KofC. One was upset upon seeing “Orthodox in the KofC”…

I’ve also heard other members of the KofC go the other way… “We should go back to one liturgy throughout the church, and abolish the Eastern Rites and Novus Ordo.”

Life Teen, when done properly, is not a bad thing.

The problem is that the faithful of the Roman church, as a whole, are poorly catechized, frequently disobedient, usually ill informed, and often stubborn and arrogant in their perseveration to ignorance and disobedience.

If the priests had been well informed, and the bishops obedient, much of the liturgical abuse would not have happened. (Some always has. It is inevitable that some liturgical abuses will happen because people are involved.)

Likewise, except since 1930, the official policy towards the eastern churches was accommodation leading to assimilation. in the 1930’s, that seems to change, and it becomes truly present with HH Blessed John Paul II.

Even without liturgical abuse, I’d have gone east. I get more out of the liturgy in the Byzantine rite than the Latin Rite (not that it has more to offer, but it presents in a manner that makes it easier for me to accept the graces offered).

The Charismatic movement is approved of by Rome (cautiously), as is LifeTeen, the Anglican Use, and the NeoCatechumenal Way. All have had “corrections” applied by Rome, but all represent authentic attempts to meet the needs of the faithful, so that the faithful can accept the graces of the sacraments.

Dan: Hang in there. The church has maintained diversity for centuries. There is no reason to believe it won’t continue.

 

[Adonis33]

Starting this thread was definitely a mistake. I forgot how much more Catholic than me everyone else on this board is.

Perhaps someday I’ll be as holy as you and many of the people who post here, and I’ll be able to look down on others from my high horse, as well.

Time to for me to take a hiatus this board. It makes me not want to be Catholic.

Speaking of judging…

So - some posters have a different opinion - and that tempts you to abandon Christs Church???

Instead of making ridiculous comparisons between the apostles and an organization founded by a pedophile, you should examine your faith. None of us are perfect, but I would hate to think I would be tempted to leave my faith over a difference of opinion.

 

[palmas85]

Speaking of judging…

So - some posters have a different opinion - and that tempts you to abandon Christs Church???

Instead of making ridiculous comparisons between the apostles and an organization founded by a pedophile, you should examine your faith. None of us are perfect, but I would hate to think I would be tempted to leave my faith over a difference of opinion.

Actually, I think that abandoning the Church isn’t too far out for some of these people. After all, the founder himself of Lifeteen abandoned the Church and actually founded his own for good measure.

You see I suspect that more than a few Lifeteen supporters have more loyalty to the group than to the Church. That is why they cannot tolerate any criticism of it at all. They really can’t defend it so they walk away from criticism and in extreme cases, as in the case of the founder from the entire Church itself.

It is very sad to me that people can have such devotion to a group instead of to the Church.

 

[benedictgal]

Well, I got an even worse story for you. There’s one particular very popular religous movement I’m aware of where the one of the twelve original members of the group ended up actually selling out the founder of the group for 30 silver coins. He ended up feeling so guilty that he committed suicide. The founder, as well, found himself convicted of a capital crime and was sentenced to death. What a scandal!

Perhaps we should all steer clear of that particular religous movement. Nothing good could come from it.

With all due respect, I believe that comparing LifeTeen to the founding of the Church is a bit of a stretch. Christ did not come to establish a movement; He came to found a Church, on the Rock of Peter. “Tu es Petrus et superhanc aedificat ecclasium maem”. Forgive my poor Latin, but I am reminded of these very concrete truth when I visit my dad’s former parish and see these words carved in the sanctuary.

The reason why many of us have legitimate concerns regarding LifeTeen is its treatment of the Church’s most sacred prayer, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I have asked this question and I will ask it once more: why did LifeTeen decide to celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in the manner it does, specifically with the music? What was the intent of the movement’s founder to do this?

As one of the other posters on this thread noted, why not incorporatea Latin into a LifeTeen Mass? After all, that is what the authoriative documents of the Church have indicated.

The teens need to have an authentic Sensus Fidei taught to them. To see the Mass as some communal gathering with contemporary music geared towards their culture is to completely miss the point. Do thse youngsters not realize that at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the veil between heaven and earth is lifted and we join the entire Church (Triumphant, Suffering and Militant) as well as the angels in offering God and pleasing and acceptable sacrifice? Are they even taught that? Furthermore, is the word “sacrifice” even a part of the LifeTeen lexicon?

Dan, these are legitimate questions that none of the LifeTeen proponents has yet to answer.

LifeTeen generates strong emotional responses from both sides of the fence. However, at some point, we need to step back, take a deep breath and examine the issues. There are genuine concerns that many of us have raised. The fact that the LifeTeen founder left the Church and started his own group (whether or not this ecclesial community is based, in part on LifeTeen principles is another story) leads me to wonder just what his intent was in beginning this movement.

 

[cradlecatholic4]

I am a 50 year old male cradle catholic, married to my first and only wife for 28 years. Our three daughters have gone through the Life Teen Program (LT). I agree it is very unfortunate the founder has chosen to excommunicate himself from the church (note that he has done so by his own actions; not that the Church has excommunicated him). But to conclude that because of his actions LT is in conflict with Rome, Catholic teaching etc., would be comparable to saying that all priest can’t be trusted with children because of the actions of a few selfish priests. WE KNOW THAT IS NOT THE TRUTH!

I have been on the Core Team (CT) for 7 years. Last year I was awarded the “For God and Faith” Award issued by the Archbishop of our diocese for my involvement with LT and the youth of our church. It has led me and dozens of teens closer to Christ. It is based on sound Catholic teaching. We cover issues such as prayer, scripture, the mass, abortion, etc., and oh yes – it is all focused on the Eucharist. Sounds Catholic to me.

I also sing in our Life Teen Music Ministry – we sing songs such as “Mary Did You Know” (an Advent song – liturgically correct for this wonderful season). As a result of my answering God’s call to serve His children through this ministry, I myself am discerning and praying about God’s call to the diaconate.

Life Teen is not evil. For those who are skeptical, ponder this question. When was the last time you saw dozens of teens on their knees before the Blessed Sacrament – for 2-3 hours at one time? If you want to know, just come to our next retreat. You will be amazed at the love our teens (admittedly some not all) have for our Lord and desire to be in full communion with Him. May I suggest that if you are skeptical about LT – get educated and find out more about LT. May God bless you and enlightern you.

 

[benedictgal]

I am a 50 year old male cradle catholic, married to my first and only wife for 28 years. Our three daughters have gone through the Life Teen Program (LT). I agree it is very unfortunate the founder has chosen to excommunicate himself from the church (note that he has done so by his own actions; not that the Church has excommunicated him). But to conclude that because of his actions LT is in conflict with Rome, Catholic teaching etc., would be comparable to saying that all priest can’t be trusted with children because of the actions of a few selfish priests. WE KNOW THAT IS NOT THE TRUTH!

I have been on the Core Team (CT) for 7 years. Last year I was awarded the “For God and Faith” Award issued by the Archbishop of our diocese for my involvement with LT and the youth of our church. It has led me and dozens of teens closer to Christ. It is based on sound Catholic teaching. We cover issues such as prayer, scripture, the mass, abortion, etc., and oh yes – it is all focused on the Eucharist. Sounds Catholic to me.

I also sing in our Life Teen Music Ministry – we sing songs such as “Mary Did You Know” (an Advent song – liturgically correct for this wonderful season). As a result of my answering God’s call to serve His children through this ministry, I myself am discerning and praying about God’s call to the diaconate.

Life Teen is not evil. For those who are skeptical, ponder this question. When was the last time you saw dozens of teens on their knees before the Blessed Sacrament – for 2-3 hours at one time? If you want to know, just come to our next retreat. You will be amazed at the love our teens (admittedly some not all) have for our Lord and desire to be in full communion with Him. May I suggest that if you are skeptical about LT – get educated and find out more about LT. May God bless you and enlightern you.

I would ask you, then, to please answer the questions that I posed regarding the movement’s treatment of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. This is a huge concern for many of us.

While it is certainly commendable that you were honored for your work with the movement (my father was honored many years ago for his work with the Catholic Youth Organization by the bishop), I think that we need to look at the deeper issues that concern LifeTeen. Please do not construe this as slighting you. I also appreciate your positive experience with the movement as it relates to your daughters. However, as I have said before, there are some serious concerns that need to be addressed.

You say that you sing “Mary Did You Know”. It’s not appropriate for Advent since this is supposed to be a Christmas song. Furthermore, it is not, in my opinion, appropriate to be sung in a Catholic church because there are some serious doctrinal issues concerning the song. Of course, the Blessed Mother knew that the baby boy she was holding in her arms was no less than the Son of God. She was told that at the annunciation. Furthermore, by a singular privileged act of God, Mary was preserved from sin because the salvific merits of Her Son’s Passion, Death and Resurrection were applied to her beforehand. Thus, this particular song, as pretty as its melody may be, is very deficient in its view of the Church’s teaching on the Blessed Mother, especially since it was written by a Protestant.

What about teaching the teensn a much more appropriate and doctrinal hymn that the Church has been singing for nearly 10 centuries, “O Come, O Come Emmanuel?” Why not expose the teens to music that accurately reflects the true teachings of the Church concerning her liturgical seasons and the Most Blessed Virgin Mary?

No one has said that LifeTeen is evil. What many of us are concerned about is the movement’s treatment of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. This is the big issue that none of the proponents of LifeTeen have, as of yet, been able to answer. It is a fair question.

Regarding the issue of the actions of the founder, the only thing that I am equating is the statements made in his ecclesial community’s website. Could these statements be related to his original vision for LifeTeen? What was his intent in founding this movement?

Now, I belong to the Cursillo Movement. I have seen good fruits borne by this group. However, I draw the line where the integrity of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is concerned. I draw the line when I see that integrity compromised, whether it’s the Cursillo Movement, LifeTeen or the Neocatechumenal Way.

In last week’s epistle, St. Paul encouraged us to test all things. This, I believe, would also include movements. We have a right to test these especially if there is something at the deep spiritual gut level that tells some of us that maybe things aren’t what they’re cracked up to be.

 

[tcraig]

I

I also sing in our Life Teen Music Ministry – we sing songs such as “Mary Did You Know” (an Advent song – liturgically correct for this wonderful season). As a result of my answering God’s call to serve His children through this ministry, I myself am discerning and praying about God’s call to the diaconate.

Blah. “Mary Did You Know” is beautiful, but it is a protestant song through and through.

I sang it every year at Christmas when I was a protestant. (And it was written as a Christmas song, not an Advent song.)

The original songwriter attended Liberty University (used to be known as Liberty College), founded by Jerry Falwell.

This is just even more proof about how LifeTeen screws with the mass and introduces theologically inappropriate additions.

cradlecatholic4, I don’t doubt your faith or your commitment. But stick with the Catholic stuff. Teach your teens the great heritage of our Catholic Church. We have 2000 years of the most beautiful art, architecture and music out there. Try looking backwards towards that, rather than at what the protestants are doing.

 

[Feanor]

I would certainly be wary of any song with roots in Liberty University.

The Church has a rich selection of beautiful hymns. I am hoping that these Glory and Praise hymns will fade from the american church as time passes.

I do hope that the Mass, under the guidance of the Holy Father, will facilitate a renewed exemplary Liturgy.

We have no need to draw our hymns from Protestants.

 

[Aramis]

We have no need to draw our hymns from Protestants.

Then go through and purge all the lutheran hymns, too… oh, wait… that takes about 1/3rd of the traditional songbooks of the early 20thC.

And the Anglican ones, too… oh, another large chunk.

What Child is This: it’s set to a love song by Henry VIII…

Most church music has secular origins, except plainchant.

 

[ppz]

I don’t know much about life teen. however do you notice that st. Paul in the epistles talks on how the gifts of the holy spirit at holy assemblies is important. you of course do not see this happening before mass or after. do you notice that every time worship music is discussed that if your not standing like a stone and lip syncing traditional Irish catholic or Renaissance music your just viewed as emotional or theatrical. has any of these critics died and went to heaven? and what kind and how much music is there? do you think king David dances wildly before the lord or did a catholic intellectual pull him aside and explain how it ought to be done?. or explain to the 24 elders who throw themselves before our God not to get to carried away. there is a love working in balanced measure. then there are the traditions of men that make the word of God unaccesable.