Defending Life

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Catholig said:
Well I’m talking about Catholicism so obviously I will say at conception, because the Church has said so…
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Actually, the Church hasn’t “said so.” She takes the position she does about killing embryonic humans because she would rather be safe than sorry.

…But Holy Mother Church hasn’t said one way or another whether or not the soul is infused at conception.
Montalban said:
I agree. I can’t say exactly when it happens, but I thought I’d just ask a Catholic - because they *know *when!
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Smarmy. Very smarmy.

Regardless, you might want to read this piece, which specifically addresses your questions:

The First Fourteen Days of Human Life

Excerpt:
Another attempt to locate the beginning of the human being after fertilization is based on the rare phenomenon of monozygotic twinning and the even rarer phenomenon of fusion. Monozygotic twinning occurs when embryonic division results in two whole embryos. Apparently, fusion can also occur in humans: that is, two embryos can fuse to become one embryo. Such twinning and fusion are possible up to approximately day 14, with the appearance of the primitive streak, the visible precursor of the spinal cord and brain. Some argue that the possibility of twinning or fusion shows that prior to day 14 the embryo is not an individual; the individual who is clearly present at more mature stages of development has not yet come to be. Raymond Devettere expresses the argument clearly:
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God Bless,
RyanL
 
Montalban said:
Sorry, a typo. I meant to write
’m not after scientific evidence, Church teaching, -]or even /-]just your opinion.

So therefore a twin gets a soul after conception, not at conception
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The first twin gets a soul at his conception, the second twin gets a soul when he becomes his own cell (breaks off of his brother). I think you can apply the word conception to the second twin’s origins. I mean conception means beginning, and when he became his own cell that was his beginning…

Catholig
 
Catholig said:
The first twin gets a soul at his conception, the second twin gets a soul when he becomes his own cell (breaks off of his brother). I think you can apply the word conception to the second twin’s origins. I mean conception means beginning, and when he became his own cell that was his beginning…

Catholig
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Do you have any Catholic teaching on this?
 
Hello,
RyanL said:
Actually, the Church hasn’t “said so.” She takes the position she does about killing embryonic humans because she would rather be safe than sorry.

…But Holy Mother Church hasn’t said one way or another whether or not the soul is infused at conception.
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Yes, the Church has!
CCC 2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception.
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From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.(Cf. CDF, Donum vitae I, 1.)
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Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.(⇒ Jer 1:5; cf. ⇒ Job 10:8-12; ⇒ Ps 22:10-11.)
My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.(⇒ Ps 139:15.)
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Hello,
Montalban said:
Do you have any Catholic teaching on this?
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Jimmy Akin had this to say on it.

As for an official document from the Church - believe it or not Montalban, the Church doesn’t have an officially declared answer for every single question. 😉
 
Hello,
Montalban said:
Who’s Jimmy Akin when he’s at home?
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Huh? :confused:
Montalban said:
Even when they make claims about human life? Such an important issue, too!
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They declare that life begins at conception.

They don’t officially declare that if cell A splits in two and then cell B splits in two and then cell C splits in two but cell D is injected with KCl at 0.934 seconds of d-moment, then cell C repopulates and cell E does a loop-de-loop, then what became of cell A and B at 2.34 seconds.

That is what I mean when I say that they don’t declare every single possible situation or question that could arise in life.
 
JMJ_coder said:
Yes, the Church has!
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With respect, no She hasn’t – at least not in as many words.

Science has said that life begins at conception. The Church says that She agrees with science on this. The Church also says that the point of ensoulment is a mystery.

Aquinas, for example, taught that the point of ensoulment occurred after conception (based on some flawed Aristotelian understandings). Aquinas affirmed, and the Church agrees, that each soul is created ex nihilo, instantly/immediately by God in the imago Dei.

Since the soul (anima) is the life-force of a body (i.e., that which animates it), it stands to reason that every living being – including embryonic humans – has a soul.

It should be noted, though, that souls come in two flavors: material and immortal/spiritual. Your dog or your houseplant has a material soul, while you have an immortal soul.

It may be that the purely material soul inhabits a human embryo, and an immortal soul is infused by God at a later period. We simply don’t know. We (or at least I) think it’s highly probable that we receive our spiritual/immortal soul at conception, but there’s no dogmatic pronouncement…yet.

Here’s what the Magisterium has said:
This Congregation is aware of the current debates concerning the beginning of human life, concerning the individuality of the human being and concerning the identity of the human person. The Congregation recalls the teachings found in the* Declaration on Procured Abortion*: “From the time that the ovum is fertilized, a new life is begun which is neither that of the father nor of the mother; it is rather the life of a new human being with his own growth. It would never be made human if it were not human already. To this perpetual evidence … modern genetic science brings valuable confirmation. It has demonstrated that, from the first instant, the programme is fixed as to what this living being will be: a man, this individual-man with his characteristic aspects already well determined. Right from fertilization is begun the adventure of a human life, and each of its great capacities requires time … to find its place and to be in a position to act”. This teaching remains valid and is further confirmed, if confirmation were needed, by recent findings of human biological science which recognize that in the zygote* resulting from fertilization the biological identity of a new human individual is already constituted. Certainly no experimental datum can be in itself sufficient to bring us to the recognition of a spiritual soul; nevertheless, the conclusions of science regarding the human embryo provide a valuable indication for discerning by the use of reason a personal presence at the moment of this first appearance of a human life: how could a human individual not be a human person? The Magisterium has not expressly committed itself to an affirmation of a philosophical nature, but it constantly reaffirms the moral condemnation of any kind of procured abortion. This teaching has not been changed and is unchangeable.
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Emphasis added.

Since we don’t know for certain, the best choice is not to shoot. In fact, shooting when you don’t know would be immoral – even if it turned out that an immortal soul was infused later on. It would be like running over a person-shaped trenchcoat in the middle of the road on a dark night. If you don’t know that it’s not a person, don’t run over it. If you run over it and it’s not a person, you’re still culpable for reckless negligence.

I hope this helps.

God Bless,
RyanL
 
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