Defense posts George Zimmerman photo from night of Trayvon Martin shooting

[Farsight001]

Yeah the dispatcher didn’t use the words, “don’t follow him.”

Then why have you repeatedly stated rather clearly that he did say those words?

 

[kelvinf]

You are not an American and you don’t know the problems of African-Americans in this country. I don’t pretend to know all their problems either. I can tell you the story from a white European point of view. I was not born in this country. My mother is French and moved to this country in 1957. My father was born here of German parents who schooled their family German, as was the custom of Germans in this country until the 1940’s. English was not spoken in the home. We had German newspapers, German schools, etc. Even in our home, as a child, we were not allowed to speak English. German was the language my parents had in common, as my mother did not know English and my father did not know French when they married. On Saturdays we went to German school.

White Americans have a huge guilt issue towards African-Americans due to slavery. In 1965 we tried to assuage that guilt by passing the “Great Society” which offered a “safety net” to the poor. Prior to that we had built housing projects, like Pruitt-Igoe in St. Louis. Google it. It was a great place for lower income Americans to live within their means. The majority of American children were born to married parents and grew up with a father and mother. Once the Great Society went into effect, money only went to single women with children. While this was a noble idea, what actually happened was that more and more women had children out of wedlock because they could get help. Today, the majority of African-American children in our country are born in single parent households with no involvement by the father. Crime became rampant in these housing projects. Stealing pipes resulting in water disasters, drugs, etc. People were destroying their own habitat. Pruitt-Igoe has since been blown up.

Tons of money is thrown at our public education system. It costs more to educate a child in a public school system than in a private Catholic school system. Money doesn’t solve the problem. It’s the culture of getting good grades is a “whitey thing.” The parents aren’t involved because they haven’t learned parenting skills. I know this first hand from the shelter where I volunteer. I learned this from my sister who rocks babies at Crisis Nursery. The moms don’t talk to their babies. Google the average vocabulary of an African-American child compared to that of a white American.

White Americans are affected too, but the African-American is disproportionately affected.

They “safety net” has become the permanent source of income for too many people in our country.

1 out of 6 households in this country is food insecure. Why?? Food stamps are supposed to supplement the grocery bill, not be the sole source. Are people so helpless they can’t get to a St. Vincent de Paul food pantry or the dozens of other food pantries?

This is a short synopsis of what is going on in our country. You can google for the actual statistics.

For many years my children and I delivered Thanksgving meals to food insecure households. It was one of those “it’s good for us and it’s good for them” journeys.

I truly believe charity is necessary for both the giver and the recipient.

PS, I am a divorced single mom. I was divorced when my children were 6 and 9.

I cannot claim that I know all the problems Americans face, especially the minority, but these problems are not hidden nor are they hard for anyone to comprehend. As you rightly said, the problems are not limited to African-Americans but this group is widely affected.

What you, your sister, children and others do is highly appreciated but to solve such massive problems requires will and broader action.

That the US government spends so much on education and nothing changes it hard for me to comprehend. Anyways, it’s not a matter of just spending but the state has to have the proper running institutions in place. It has been done in other nations, I don’t see why it can’t be done over there.

I agree that there is the need to change the mindset of some, but that can only happen via education.

One could or can also compare former East and former West Germany, that is, contemporary Germany, to see what needed and still needs to be done to ensure equality and equal opportunities for everyone.

To tackle certain problems in society, one first needs to get to the root of the matter. To do so, we need to understand what a just society is or is supposed to be.

My argument is based on the Catholic Social Doctrine which has a history in the German society.

To begin, it is important that we understand some basics about a just society. It is important we appreciate the definition of the common good. And it is equally vital to comprehend the role of the Church (and the laity) and the state. That is, the responsibility of everyone for the common good.

See next posts.

 

[kelvinf]

I will use “Compendium” to refer to the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church.

(All emphases are mine)

[CCC 1905] In keeping with the social nature of man, the good of each individual is necessarily related to the common good, which in turn can be defined only in reference to the human person:

[CCC 1906] By common good is to be understood “the sum total of social conditions which allow people, either as groups or as individuals, to reach their fulfilment more fully and more easily.” The common good concerns the life of all. It calls for prudence from each, and even more from those who exercise the office of authority.

[Compendium 164] The common good does not consist in the simple sum of the particular goods of each subject of a social entity. Belonging to everyone and to each person, it is and remains “common”, because it is indivisible and because only together is it possible to attain it, increase it and safeguard its effectiveness, with regard also to the future.

[CCC 1912] The common good is always oriented towards the progress of persons: “The order of things must be subordinate to the order of persons, and not the other way around.” This order is founded on truth, built up in justice and animated by love.

[Compendium 165] **A society that wishes and intends to remain at the service of the human being at every level is a society that has the common good – the good of all people and of the whole person (cf. CCC 1912) – as its primary goal. The human person cannot find fulfilment in himself, that is, apart from the fact that he exists “with” others and “for” others. **

[Compendium 166] The demands of the common good are dependent on the social conditions of each historical period and are strictly connected to respect for and the integral promotion of the person and his fundamental rights. (Cf. CCC 1907.) These demands concern above all the commitment to peace, the organization of the State’s powers, a sound juridical system, the protection of the environment, and the provision of essential services to all, some of which are at the same time human rights: food, housing, work, education and access to culture, transportation, basic health care, the freedom of communication and expression, and the protection of religious freedom. (Cf. Vatican II Gaudium et Spes, 1046 – 1047)

[Compendium 167] The common good therefore involves all members of society; no one is exempt from cooperating, according to each one’s possibilities, in attaining it and developing it. Everyone also has the right to enjoy the conditions of social life that are brought about by the quest for the common good. The teaching of Pope Pius XI is still relevant: “The distribution of created goods, which, as every discerning person knows, is labouring today under the gravest evils due to the huge disparity between the few exceedingly rich and the unnumbered propertyless, must be effectively called back to, and brought into conformity with, the norms of the common good, that is, social justice.” (Encyclical Letter Quadragesimo Anno, 197.)

[Compendium 168] The responsibility for attaining the common good, besides falling to individual persons, belongs also to the State, since the common good is the reason that the political authority exists. (Cf. CCC 1910.) The State, in fact, must guarantee the coherency, unity and organization of the civil society of which it is an expression, in order that the common good may be attained with the contribution of every citizen. The individual person, the family or intermediate groups are not able to achieve their full development by themselves for living a truly human life. Hence the necessity of political institutions, the purpose of which is to make available to persons the necessary material, cultural, moral and spiritual goods. The goal of life in society is in fact the historically attainable common good.

[Compendium 289] The planning capacity of a society oriented towards the common good and looking to the future is measured also and above all on the basis of the employment prospects that it is able to offer. The high level of unemployment, the presence of obsolete educational systems and of persistent difficulties in gaining access to professional formation and the job market represent, especially for many young people, a huge obstacle on the road to human professional fulfilment. In fact, those who are unemployed or underemployed suffer the profound negative consequences that such a situation creates in a personality and they run the risk of being marginalized within society, of becoming victims of social exclusion. (Cf. CCC 2436.) In general, this is the drama that strikes not only young people, but also women, less specialized workers, the persons with disabilities, immigrants, ex-convicts, the illiterate, all those who face greater difficulties in the attempt to find their place in the world of employment.

 

[kelvinf]

The above addresses the responsibility for the common good, basic human rights (education, accommodation, nutrition, health care, employment etc) and the role of the state in ensuring social justice.

The lack of access to the basic needs usually results in the kind of problems we see in certain societies today. The Social Doctrine of the Church is unequivocal and only by properly implementing it can there be just societies.

Germany is a good example. Here you can read from the website of the German Bishops about the Tradition of the Catholic Social Doctrine in Germany. (It’s in English.)

It seems like one of the major problems in America is the educational system. Not just access to education but access to quality education and tertiary education. I was discussing with this guy from the US, he says he has a “well paid” job and even owns a “small business” (neither according to Obama’s definition nor Romney’s definition) but a really small business that generates income. But he is still worried about sending his children to the university. How can that be?

Such a system creates a big problem that especially affects the “vulnerable” in society. (Cf. Compendium 289.) I also understand that you can’t just send your child to any school because schools are significantly different. In Germany, schools are more or else equal so as to offer equal opportunities to everyone. The same hold true for universities. You don’t have what people call “elite” universities here per se. Most universities are state owned and free. (Of course, funded by taxpayers.) They are all accredited universities and aren’t significantly different. That way, the state is ensuring equal opportunities for all. Companies, that need skilled workers, also do their part in funding universities.

Without a solid educational system, without the state ensuring that no child is left behind, there would be significant problems in society.

When people are properly educated, when people can see a vision of their future, I am sure they would focus on reaching their goals. The opposite would be people who don’t think they have a future, who don’t value their lives and tend to resort to unacceptable behaviours. The truth is people cannot justify their bad behaviour because of the situation in which they find themselves. That said, it is also very important to understand what the Church has to say and I will quote again: «The individual person, the family or intermediate groups are not able to achieve their full development by themselves for living a truly human life. Hence the necessity of political institutions, the purpose of which is to make available to persons the necessary material, cultural, moral and spiritual goods.» [Compendium 168]

The job done by the Church and laity in the form of charity is wonderful and has definitely, and will continue to be of great value and benefit to society. But as I said in another post, social justice is the responsibility of the state. (Cf. Deus Caritas Est 28a)

In Germany, there is what they call solidarity tax. (Only certain people pay this additional tax.)
(I am sure this is what SamH would refer to as class envy.)

To whom much is given, much is expected. So I believe it is fair. But what I believe doesn’t really matter; what matters is what the Church has to say. This tax, like the name indicates, is used for solidarity purposes. It was first introduced to pay for the reunification of both Germanys and to cover the costs of the Operation Desert Storm mission (funny). Additionally, because of the situation in former East Germany (less developed than former West Germany), former West Germany has the responsibility to support former East Germany in development. The goal is to provide equal opportunities to everybody. This solidarity pact is to end in 2019. The results so far haven’t been as expected, but without this kind of distribution of wealth (cf. Pius XI, Encyclical Letter Quadragesimo Anno: AAS 23 (1931), 197.), contemporary Germany would have been facing lots of social problems and massive migration westward.

All told, the problems within the African-American community can be fixed as long as there is the national will to do so. If America is to host the World Cup or Olympics in South Central for instance, I am sure the state would fix those areas. Brazil is currently doing something like that in preparation for the games.

The question is whether nations have to wait for special events to cater for the well-being of their citizens and to take responsibility for attaining of the common good.

 

[kelvinf]

I don’t think you understand what the Popes are saying in their writings. Pope John Paul II in the encyclical Centissimus Annus explained the a welfare state which creates dependency in the people is also wrong.

kelvinf:

Encyclical Centesimus Annus:

**…the mass of the poor have no resources of their own to fall back on, and must chiefly depend on the assistance of the State…

…the latter class, should be specially cared for and protected by the Government…

…the more that individuals are defenceless within a given society, the more they require the care and concern of others, and in particular the intervention of governmental authority…**

And then this:

kelvinf:

In recent years the range of such intervention has vastly expanded, to the point of creating a new type of State, the so-called “Welfare State”. This has happened in some countries in order to respond better to many needs and demands, by remedying forms of poverty and deprivation unworthy of the human person. However, excesses and abuses, especially in recent years, have provoked very harsh criticisms of the Welfare State, dubbed the “Social Assistance State”.** Malfunctions and defects** in the Social Assistance State are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the State. Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good…

Taking all the above into consideration, one can see that, the Church advocates State intervention/support but cautions interference or inordinate excesses at the level of the State. Where the local community is more efficient, that should be favoured (with support from the State if necessary.) So the State shouldn’t interfer but rather support.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I cannot claim that I know all the problems Americans face, especially the minority, but these problems are not hidden nor are they hard for anyone to comprehend. As you rightly said, the problems are not limited to African-Americans but this group is widely affected.

What you, your sister, children and others do is highly appreciated but to solve such massive problems requires will and broader action.

That the US government spends so much on education and nothing changes it hard for me to comprehend. Anyways, it’s not a matter of just spending but the state has to have the proper running institutions in place. It has been done in other nations, I don’t see why it can’t be done over there.

I agree that there is the need to change the mindset of some, but that can only happen via education.

One could or can also compare former East and former West Germany, that is, contemporary Germany, to see what needed and still needs to be done to ensure equality and equal opportunities for everyone.

To tackle certain problems in society, one first needs to get to the root of the matter. To do so, we need to understand what a just society is or is supposed to be.

My argument is based on the Catholic Social Doctrine which has a history in the German society.

To begin, it is important that we understand some basics about a just society. It is important we appreciate the definition of the common good. And it is equally vital to comprehend the role of the Church (and the laity) and the state. That is, the responsibility of everyone for the common good.

See next posts.

In our case, the federal government is supporting the root of the problem, but not the problem itself. It is a dispenser of dollars, not of help. The problem needs to be addressed at the local level, attending to the needs of people, not the wants.

 

[JohnVictor]

[No message]

 

[qui_est_ce]

It seems like one of the major problems in America is the educational system. Not just access to education but access to quality education and tertiary education. I was discussing with this guy from the US, he says he has a “well paid” job and even owns a “small business” (neither according to Obama’s definition nor Romney’s definition) but a really small business that generates income. But he is still worried about sending his children to the university. How can that be?

There is quality education in the US. The problem is that the schools in poorer neighborhoods have become lock-down prisons because the behavior of the students is they do not want to learn. Your friend should not worry about university. Even the most elite, like Harvard, will accept students tuition free if their parents make under a certain amount (I believe it is $50,000). My daughter is about to complete her final year of university. She worked her way through and will be graduating honors. I am a single mom and make under $40,000.00/year, and managed to help her somewhat.

Such a system creates a big problem that especially affects the “vulnerable” in society. (Cf. Compendium 289.) I also understand that you can’t just send your child to any school because schools are significantly different. In Germany, schools are more or else equal so as to offer equal opportunities to everyone. The same hold true for universities. You don’t have what people call “elite” universities here per se. Most universities are state owned and free. (Of course, funded by taxpayers.) They are all accredited universities and aren’t significantly different. That way, the state is ensuring equal opportunities for all. Companies, that need skilled workers, also do their part in funding universities.

Without a solid educational system, without the state ensuring that no child is left behind, there would be significant problems in society.

When people are properly educated, when people can see a vision of their future, I am sure they would focus on reaching their goals. The opposite would be people who don’t think they have a future, who don’t value their lives and tend to resort to unacceptable behaviours. The truth is people cannot justify their bad behaviour because of the situation in which they find themselves. That said, it is also very important to understand what the Church has to say and I will quote again: «The individual person, the family or intermediate groups are not able to achieve their full development by themselves for living a truly human life. Hence the necessity of political institutions, the purpose of which is to make available to persons the necessary material, cultural, moral and spiritual goods.» [Compendium 168]

Very well said. The problem is money is provided, but the people are not changing their bad behaviors. In the US, our government is being prevented by Atheists and the ACLU for helping people make good moral choices. AND THAT IS THE BIG PROBLEM!!

The job done by the Church and laity in the form of charity is wonderful and has definitely, and will continue to be of great value and benefit to society. But as I said in another post, social justice is the responsibility of the state. (Cf. Deus Caritas Est 28a)

Maybe if it is provided at the local level. Our country is much bigger and more diverse than Germany or Italy.

In Germany, there is what they call solidarity tax. (Only certain people pay this additional tax.)
(I am sure this is what SamH would refer to as class envy.)

To whom much is given, much is expected. So I believe it is fair. But what I believe doesn’t really matter; what matters is what the Church has to say. This tax, like the name indicates, is used for solidarity purposes. It was first introduced to pay for the reunification of both Germanys and to cover the costs of the Operation Desert Storm mission (funny). Additionally, because of the situation in former East Germany (less developed than former West Germany), former West Germany has the responsibility to support former East Germany in development. The goal is to provide equal opportunities to everybody. This solidarity pact is to end in 2019. The results so far haven’t been as expected, but without this kind of distribution of wealth (cf. Pius XI, Encyclical Letter Quadragesimo Anno: AAS 23 (1931), 197.), contemporary Germany would have been facing lots of social problems and massive migration westward.

All told, the problems within the African-American community can be fixed as long as there is the national will to do so.** If America is to host the World Cup or Olympics in South Central for instance, I am sure the state would fix those areas. Brazil is currently doing something like that in preparation for the games.

The question is whether nations have to wait for special events to cater for the well-being of their citizens and to take responsibility for attaining of the common good**.

All those programs do is push poor people out of their homes so that new construction can begin. We call it “gentrification.”

 

[JohnVictor]

There is quality education in the US. The problem is that the schools in poorer neighborhoods have become lock-down prisons because the behavior of the students is they do not want to learn. Your friend should not worry about university. Even the most elite, like Harvard, will accept students tuition free if their parents make under a certain amount (I believe it is $50,000). My daughter is about to complete her final year of university. She worked her way through and will be graduating honors. I am a single mom and make under $40,000.00/year, and managed to help her somewhat.
Very well said. The problem is money is provided, but the people are not changing their bad behaviors. In the US, our government is being prevented by Atheists and the ACLU for helping people make good moral choices. AND THAT IS THE BIG PROBLEM!!
Maybe if it is provided at the local level. Our country is much bigger and more diverse than Germany or Italy.
All those programs do is push poor people out of their homes so that new construction can begin. We call it “gentrification.”

Thread hijack in progress

 

[JohnVictor]

[No message]

 

[qui_est_ce]

Thread hijack in progress

Sorry

 

[JohnVictor]

**

JimR-OCDS

**:
Here it is again:
"In a statement he gave to police the same night he shot and killed the unarmed teen, Zimmerman wrote that he was returning to his vehicle after a police dispatcher told him over the phone to stop pursuing Martin.

**“The dispatcher told me not to follow the suspect and that an officer was in route,” **Zimmerman wrote in the statement, which was released to the public for the first time on Thursday morning." tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmem…von_martin.php

Bold is my emphasis on what Zimmerman said about the dispatcher’s instructions.

Clearly, Zimmerman understood that the dispatcher told him not to follow the suspect, but people in here want to play semantics because the dispatcher didn’t use precise wording, “Do not follow.”

Anyway, I give up.

Jim

You should.  

Your intentionally editing out Zimmerman’s statement by leaving off his very next sentence *to make it fit your agenda*....that is absolutely no different than what NBC did. 

By the statement, to which you refer, he did not follow Martin after the dispatcher said he didn't need to.

Tsk...tsk

**Read Page 2 of Zimmermnan's statement to which you keep referring:   **
[scribd.com/doc/97802972/George-Zimmerman-Written-Statement](http://www.scribd.com/doc/97802972/George-Zimmerman-Written-Statement)


edited for spelling

 

[ringil]

Sorry

I wouldn’t worry. JohnVictor is not a moderator.

 

[JohnVictor]

Jim,

Your intentionally editing out Zimmerman’s statement by leaving off his very next sentence to make it fit your agenda…that is absolutely no different than what NBC did.

By the statement, to which you refer, he did not follow Martin after the dispatcher said he didn’t need to.

Tsk…tsk

**Read Page 2 of Zimmermnan’s statement to which you keep referring: **
scribd.com/doc/97802972/George-Zimmerman-Written-Statement

 

[SamH]

I wouldn’t worry. JohnVictor is not a moderator.

And?

 

[qui_est_ce]

I wouldn’t worry. JohnVictor is not a moderator.

I was way off topic, but I wanted Kelvin to understand that there is a history in this country of which Germans or Africans are not always aware.

 

[JohnVictor]

Note to George Zimmerman’s crucifiers:

In the U.S. defendants are innocent until proven guilty - GZ doesn’t need to prove a thing or have to prove anything.

The** entire** burden of proof is on prosecution to prove GZ “was the initial aggressor” (threw the first punch)

Actual evidence is now displacing all the false assumptions, suppositions, and wild theories spread by the media and our armchair forum attorneys that were duped by that media.

There appears to be little chance now that GZ will ever be found guilty.

edited for spelling

 

[livingwordunity]

CNBC and FOX- different sides of the same coin.

Not admitting this shows clear lack of perspective and blind partisanship.

When has Fox News altered a taped 911 phone call to make someone look like a racist to the public and then got support from the president of the United States in this effort to undermine a man’s chance for a fair trial?

 

[kelvinf]

BTW, this might seem way off topic but not necessarily. There is a reason why Zimmerman was in possession of a weapon.

So you can continue to discuss the current situation and let others who are interested discuss the basic problem.

In our case, the federal government is supporting the root of the problem, but not the problem itself. It is a dispenser of dollars, not of help. The problem needs to be addressed at the local level, attending to the needs of people, not the wants.

Cool. Subsidiarity is always the better option. So how is the problem being addressed at the local level? Because so far, you have spoken just of charity, something we all appreciate. But it would take more than charity to solve the problem.

There is quality education in the US. The problem is that the schools in poorer neighborhoods have become lock-down prisons because the behavior of the students is they do not want to learn. Your friend should not worry about university. Even the most elite, like Harvard, will accept students tuition free if their parents make under a certain amount (I believe it is $50,000). My daughter is about to complete her final year of university. She worked her way through and will be graduating honors. I am a single mom and make under $40,000.00/year, and managed to help her somewhat.

If universities in the US have such policies, then that’s wonderful! So it would mean that those who complain about tuition are those who earn more than this amount or?

But lots of students (here on CAF) complain about financing their studies or the hefty debts those who have graduated have to pay.

The Bible and the Church teach that widows and orphans deserve special attention in society. Today, we have single moms and their children. They are also special. For a single mom to raise children in today’s society is not easy. I mean, if couples have difficulties raising their children, then what more of single moms? But you mention this for a reason. And I guess it’s: if some single moms can raise their children successfully, then why not others / other couples? If you support your daughter (I think you need to introduce me…. LOL. ) somewhat then why should other parents not be able to do the same? Am I interpreting this right? (Why did you add this after saying what you said???)

Very well said. The problem is money is provided, but the people are not changing their bad behaviors. In the US, our government is being prevented by Atheists and the ACLU for helping people make good moral choices. AND THAT IS THE BIG PROBLEM!!

Maybe if it is provided at the local level. Our country is much bigger and more diverse than Germany or Italy.

All those programs do is push poor people out of their homes so that new construction can begin. We call it “gentrification.”

By “the state” I actually mean federal or local government. The local government is definitely best placed to handle certain issues.

Some years ago, there were violent riots in France and it all centred around social exclusion. The state recognised the problem and decided to act. They started creating special schools called l’École de la 2e chance. The BBC has reported how these schools have changed the lives of those who felt excluded and saw no future in the 5th Republic. Such special schools are actually EU pilot projects and they seem to be working.

My point is, as long as there is the will to deal with the problems faced by certain groups of people in society, a solution can always be found. If a specific programme doesn’t work, then we try another one. Man, we are or ought to be innovative and creative.

Every child is born innocent. In the course of human development, they could either learn good things or bad things. They kind of schools they attend (if any), the kind of environment they live in etc all play a major role in what direction they take in life.

There is a German/French documentary on parts of LA: L.A. gangs de femmes. I didn’t start watching it from the beginning and couldn’t exactly tell which country it was until I finally saw a police car with the label LAPD. For me it’s unbelievable. Very young teenage girls (with kids) who have a vision of only 2 ultimate destinations: jail or death. It’s really sad.
You know, African has lots of problems but it’s all thanks to the corrupt and tyrannous strong men ruling most African nations.
Ultimately, the documentary paints a picture of America (like those documentaries about Africa.)

Like in France, you need government action to deal with these kinds of situations. Usually, the local government should be able to fix the problem. If they can’t, then the federal government ought to.

I only wonder whether there is a will to do so.

I wanted Kelvin to understand that there is a history in this country of which Germans or Africans are not always aware.

Definitely! History was the first subject I dropped in school. But now I have some kind of interest in the subject. So thanks for explaining what you have explained. I hope you get my point about a just society and how it should look like.

 

[qui_est_ce]

BTW, this might seem way off topic but not necessarily. There is a reason why Zimmerman was in possession of a weapon.

So you can continue to discuss the current situation and let others who are interested discuss the basic problem.

Cool. Subsidiarity is always the better option. So how is the problem being addressed at the local level? Because so far, you have spoken just of charity, something we all appreciate. But it would take more than charity to solve the problem.

Okay, I agree subsidiarity (local) and charity.

If universities in the US have such policies, then that’s wonderful! So it would mean that those who complain about tuition are those who earn more than this amount or?

But lots of students (here on CAF) complain about financing their studies or the hefty debts those who have graduated have to pay.

That’s because they go to private universities which cost $40,000.00 and up. 3 years ago, my daughter got lots of scholarships (30,000.00) to attend the local Jesuit university (St. Louis University), but she still would have to come up with $10,000.00 plus books ($1,000.00, fees, etc.). She is attending a state university that costs $14,000.00 including room and board. She got enough in scholarships and loans to pay that amount. She will have loans, but so far after 3.5 years, the loan amount is only $10,000.00. I think it’s a good investment in her future.

The Bible and the Church teach that widows and orphans deserve special attention in society. Today, we have single moms and their children. They are also special. For a single mom to raise children in today’s society is not easy. But you mention this for a reason. And I guess it’s: if some single moms can raise their children successfully, then why not others / other couples? If you support your daughter (I think you need to introduce me…. :LOL. )

, well she will be in France next year being an au pair.

somewhat then why should other parents not be able to do the same? Am I interpreting this right? (Why did you add this after saying what you said???)

What I mean to say is I managed to raise two decent kids without government help. I had been a stay at home mom until I divorced, so my job skills were rusty. And I still don’t make a lot of money (my choice, I work for a small company and hate the corporate world, where you get better pay and benefits, but you are just a position, not a person). How did I do it? I took them to Mass every Sunday, prayed with them, and modeled moral behavior. I moved them back to the city where my family was. My family was my and their support.

By “the state” I actually mean federal or local government. The local government is definitely best placed to handle certain issues.

Some years ago, there were violent riots in France and it all centred around social exclusion. The state recognised the problem and decided to act. They started creating special schools called l’École de la 2e chance. The BBC has reported how these schools have changed the lives of those who felt excluded and saw no future in the 5th Republic. Such special schools are actually EU pilot projects and they seem to be working.

We do that too. We bus kids from the inner city to good suburban schools. The problem is, the parents who don’t care about education don’t enroll their children in these programs. They have the right to refuse.

My point is, as long as there is the will to deal with the problems faced by certain groups of people in society, a solution can always be found. If a specific programme doesn’t work, then we try another one. Man, we are or ought to be innovative and creative.

AGREE!! And that’s what the federal government is not doing. A program doesn’t work? Well, let’s throw more money at it. SERIOUSLY.

Every child is born innocent. In the course of human development, they could either learn good things or bad things. They kind of schools they attend (if any), the kind of environment they live in etc all play a major role in what direction they take in life.

It’s not the school, it’s the parents.

There is a German/French documentary on parts of LA: L.A. gangs de femmes. I didn’t start watching it from the beginning and couldn’t exactly tell which country it was until I finally saw a police car with the label LAPD. For me it’s unbelievable. Very young teenage girls (with kids) who have a vision of only 2 ultimate destinations: jail or death. It’s really sad.
You know, African has lots of problems but it’s all thanks to the corrupt and tyrannous strong men ruling most African nations.
Ultimately, the documentary paints a picture of America (like those documentaries about Africa.)

I agree

Like in France, you need government action to deal with these kinds of situations. Usually, the local government should be able to fix the problem. If they can’t, then the federal government ought to.

I only wonder whether there is a will to do so.

The will has to come from the parents, not the federal government.
We need to catch these kids before they grow up. That’s why I volunteer at a shelter where kids and mothers are taught how to function to win, to want a better life.

Definitely! History was the first subject I dropped in school. But now I have some kind of interest in the subject. So thanks for explaining what you have explained. I hope you get my point about a just society and how it should look like.

I do, and thanks for your response. It is always interesting to discuss things. If only everybody would listen to me, all the world’s problems would be solved.!