Definition of a "Catholic"

[jvickers]

Actually, they do consider themselves Catholic from what my wife just told me. Thanks!

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I’m not completely convinced the Church is calling a person who was merely Baptized as an infant, yet when reached the age of reason rejected the Gospel, a Catholic.

Consider the person who was baptized but never set foot in a church after that. He grows up, gets married, and later gets divorced. He now wants to marry a Catholic. The couple goes to see their priest who asks about prior marriages. He says that he was previously married and the priest determines that the marriage wasn’t in the Catholic form nor did the baptized-but-never-went-to-church person get a dispensation from form. What does the priest say?

Probably something like “this will be a very simple matter of submitting paperwork to show that you are a Catholic who was not married according to Catholic form and therefore your previous marriage was invalid.”

Even if the guy claims that this doesn’t seem right – he never considered himself a Catholic so why would this apply? The priest would tell him “you were baptized Catholic, therefore you are subject to canon law.”

Once you’ve been baptized or received into the Church, you are a Catholic. You may be a devout Catholic, a lapsed Catholic, a practicing Catholic, a fallen away Catholic, or any other adjective you want to add…but in the end, you’re a Catholic.

As a new Catholic, I have a quick question. If you’re excommunicated, are you still considered Catholic? Not that I ever plan on being excommunicated, but I have friends who have been due to their sexual preferences.

If you are excommunicated you are an excommunicated Catholic, but still Catholic. Excommunication means that the Church is trying to call your attention to a serious matter, but it doesn’t mean you’ve been expelled from the Church. And no one is excommunicated for their sexual preferences.

 

[Genesis315]

Did a bishop actually excommicate them? I’m no canon lawyer, but these seem to be the only offenses that result in automatic excommunication (“sexual preferences” is not one of them). Not every grave or mortal sin results in excommunication.

Canon 1364 - An apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.[20]
Canon 1367 - A person who throws away consecrated species, or takes (or retains) them for a sacrilegious purpose, incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the apostolic see.[20]
Canon 1370 - A person who uses physical force against the Roman pontiff incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the apostolic see.[20]
Canon 1378 - A priest who acts against the prescript of Canon 977 incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the apostolic see. (Canon 977 prohibits a priest from giving absolution to someone with whom he has had unlawful carnal relations).[20]
Canon 1382 - A bishop who consecrates a bishop without a pontifical mandate, and the person who receives the consecration, incur a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the apostolic see.[20]
Canon 1388 - A confessor who directly violates the sacramental seal incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the apostolic see.[20]
Canon 1398 - A person who procures a completed abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.[20]

List of excommunicable offences in the Catholic Church - Wikipedia

Heresy, schism, and apostasy, by their very nature, lead to excommuncation. Other instances are usually for specifically Church related problems (abortion is included because civil law fails to protect the victims of abortion in many places, so the Church is trying provide a deterrent punishment in its stead).

 

[ChristMyLife]

What entitles a person to identify as a “Catholic”? What are the prerequisites to identify as such?

A Catholic is a baptized Christian who believes everything the Holy Catholic Church teaches, She who can neither deceive nor be deceived, and who is in full communion and religious submission to his Bishop who is in full communion and religious submission to the Supreme Pontiff and the Holy Roman See.

 

[jvickers]

Good question. I don’t think we ever asked them if the bishop excommunicated them. That might have just been an assumption on everyone’s part. If not, in theory, if either or both abstained from their same-sex relationships and confessed and received absolution of their prior sin, they could return to a state of grace?

Sorry all, I’m not attempting to derail the OP’s question. I do see it as related to what constitutes a Catholic.

 

[Dovekin]

Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who…

Nothing like a good discusssion of ecclesiology!

CCC 837 here is quoting Lumen Gentium 14, giving the Council’s definition of who belongs to the Church. By the use of “fully” it establishes that there are degrees of belonging.
This is important with respect to other Christians, but it also applies to people within the visible boundaries of the Church. The example of the one lacking charity, who is in the church as in a body setlles that question. There are people fully incorporated, abd others not so fully incorporated, all of whom are called Catholics. (And there are non-catholics who are related in other ways.

This counts someone who was baptized, but rejects confirmation, ordination, etc. as a catholic, but not as a fully incorporated catholic, in the body but not of it.

Personally, I would not say that of an infant. An infant accepts all of the means of salvation available to her; she accepts the love from her mother and father that is the foundation of the Church. So she is fully incorporated because she accepts what she can. As an infant, sha has to learn about the other elements of salvation, but that is the nature of infancy. When she is old enough, she might reject those things, and then be in the position I described in the previous paragraph. In the body, but not fully of it.

That is how I read the Church’s position on who is Catholic. It may need refining, but it is basically by baptism we become members. We each fail to live up to it in some way.

 

[rcwitness]

Well I think the answer lies in the fact that a Catholic Baptism is not exactly the same as a protestant Baptism.

In the East, dont they offer all three Sacraments to an infant?

 

[Genesis315]

That’s my understanding. It should be noted–and this may be what is being confused as excommunication–that anyone conscience of a grave sin of any kind should abstain from receiving communion until they go to confession based on the following Scripture verses:

1 Cor. 11:27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

 

[rcwitness]

Right. So a person who is excommunicated would have most likely participated in Confirmation and First Communion.

It’s not someone Baptized as an infant and never participated as an adult.

Could someone who never received Confirmation/Holy Communion be excommunicated?

 

[JulianN]

Yes. Because a baptized person who reaches the age of reason may go to Communion. (They need to go to Confession first) There is no specific ‘first’ administration of this sacrament required. The same is true of reconciliation.

 

[rcwitness]

Yes, I guess I’m in kid mode with First Communion! Lol

But you aren’t suppose to receive Communion without Confirmation, right?

 

[Hodos]

How is an infant “called” by God?

In the same way that HE CHOSE US in him BEFORE the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before him. In love HE PREDESTINED US to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the kind intention of HIS will, to the praise and glory of his grace which HE FREELY BESTOWED ON US in the beloved (Christ).

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Well I think the answer lies in the fact that a Catholic Baptism is not exactly the same as a protestant Baptism.

How is it different?

But you aren’t suppose to receive Communion without Confirmation, right?

In the United States there are very few dioceses who have restored the order of the sacraments for children. In most places people are baptized as infants, receive their First Communion around the age of 7, and are confirmed in their mid- to late-teens. So yes, they receive communion before confirmation. (Adults complete their sacraments of initiation in the proper order.)

 

[JulianN]

Yes. Most 7-year-olds receive Communion before Confirmation. We’re not talking about an adult convert.

 

[rcwitness]

How is it different?

Well, if it’s no different, then they would not be considered Catholic anymore than a protestant.

In the United States there are very few dioceses who have restored the order of the sacraments for children. In most places people are baptized as infants, receive their First Communion around the age of 7, and are confirmed in their mid- to late-teens. So yes, they receive communion before confirmation. (Adults complete their sacraments of initiation in the proper order.)

So back to my concern. How does an Infant Baptism alone (in Catholic Church) where Confirmation does not happen and as an adult reject the faith, constitute them as Catholic?

 

[rcwitness]

Yes. Most 7-year-olds receive Communion before Confirmation. We’re not talking about an adult convert.

What I’m trying to understand, is how an Infant Baptized, yet receives nothing else in the age of reason, but rejects the faith, is still considered Catholic.

It may be what the church practices, but I dont understand it. Maybe I’m not getting this, I admit.

 

[JulianN]

Because sacraments actually do what they signify. So someone who is baptized is, in the sacrament itself, made a member of the Church.

That’s why the Church is so concerned that there is a founded hope of a child being raised in the faith—that child is Catholic and obligated to follow all the rules of the Church.

 

[KevinK]

Are you a Calvinist?

 

[rcwitness]

Because sacraments actually do what they signify. So someone who is baptized is, in the sacrament itself, made a member of the Church.

So how is it different with a valid Protestant Baptism? The Church’s Rite must be different somehow from a Protestant Baptism.

That’s why the Church is so concerned that there is a founded hope of a child being raised in the faith—that child is Catholic and obligated to follow all the rules of the Church.

Yes, absolutely! I am super supportive of the notion to ensure parents are striving to raise the children in the faith, and by example too! I believe the Church (or alot of leaders) severely lacks conviction towards wayward Christians.

But when that doesnt happen… and the Child becomes an adult and also rejects the faith, I think it means they have made their own choice not to be Catholic no matter how much the Church and God wanted them to be.

On the other hand, no one can be Baptized again. It’s a permanent mark on their soul. So I do understand that they were always welcomed into the Church. But by way of Reconciliation.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Well, if it’s no different, then they would not be considered Catholic anymore than a protestant.

Someone who is baptized as a Catholic is Catholic. Someone who is baptized as a Lutheran or a Methodist is Lutheran or Methodist. But the process for baptizing them – water and the formula – are the same. Someone who has been baptized in a Protestant community is not re-baptized if they become Catholic.

So back to my concern. How does an Infant Baptism alone (in Catholic Church) where Confirmation does not happen and as an adult reject the faith, constitute them as Catholic?

They’re Catholic because they have been baptized Catholic. The Church claims them as members even if you do not.

Think of it this way: someone has a baby. That baby is part of the family even if at some point the baby grows into a teenager who says “I hate you all and I’m running away from home.” The teen may leave and never communicate with the family again, but their parents and other family members certainly consider the teen to be part of the family. Even if the teen walks out on them, they don’t walk out on him.