Democratic Strategists Issue Memo on Loss of Catholics

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Richardols:
Two wrongs make a right? I agree that delcor’s comment is over the top, but you seem to be saying that if U.S. forces had deliberately killed any civilians, we can overlook it because Saddam was far worse.
I seem to be saying that? Delcor is saying that US stragegy in Iraq is to kill children. That is false. I am saying that Sadaam killed 500,000 plus innocent. That is fact. Before I can overlook something it has to be true. It is Delcor that is overlooking the innocent in Iraq in saying the US was wrong to intervene.
 
wisdom 3:5:
So they’re not really changing their stance on abortion, just trying to appear sympathetic to all sides.
Remember that it’s only a memo from the Democracy Corps, a small research and tactical advice organization.
 
Philip P:
So its okay to care about electablity if you’re Republican, but if you do that as a Democrat you’re a flip-flopper? Well I think the lesson here is obvious; to win back the country, Democrats just need to switch their party labels and they’ll have immunity to do whatever they want.
No. You are completely missing the lesson. The Democrats run a party controlled by the agendas of pro-abortionists, pro-homosexuals, pro-euthanasia, and anti-Christianity.

Republicans try to counterbalance this, understanding that a great number of Americans have bought into the culture of death that controls the Democrats. Sometimes, the Republicans are weak in this combat but their intentions are incomparably stronger than the virulent Democrats.
 
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Richardols:
We measure each man by our standards, not by their comparison to each other, and thus neither is pro-life the way the Church defines pro-life.
More nonsense. YOU are measuring Bush compared to Kerry and saying they come out equal in terms of pro-life. That is YOUR comparison. I say your comparison is intellectually dishonest.

You are using Bush’s supposed “three exceptions” to justify voting for people that vigorously oppose our past Pope’s teachings and the teachings of the Catholic Church.
 
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Brad:
I seem to be saying that? Delcor is saying that US stragegy in Iraq is to kill children.
Read his posts. Nowhere does he say that the US strategy in Iraq is to kill children. Nowhere.
It is Delcor that is overlooking the innocent in Iraq in saying the US was wrong to intervene.
Delcor is in good company. The Pope was against Bush’s invasion, too, and told Bush so.
 
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Brad:
More nonsense. YOU are measuring Bush compared to Kerry and saying they come out equal in terms of pro-life.
Where are you pulling your nonsense from?

Where did I say that they are equal in terms of pro-life? Which post? I did say that neither is pro-life the way the Church defines pro-life.
 
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Richardols:
Read his posts. Nowhere does he say that the US strategy in Iraq is to kill children. Nowhere.
“Slaughter children” is not the same as “accidentally killing innocent civilians”. You don’t “slaughter children” by accident. You do it on purpose.
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Richardols:
Delcor is in good company. The Pope was against Bush’s invasion, too, and told Bush so.
The Pope never publically stated the Iraq war was wrong. The Pope maintained his stance against all conflict. He often publically outright condemned terrorism and slaughtering of the innocent by dictators. You have to reconcile one concern against the others.
 
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Brad:
You are completely missing the lesson. The Democrats run a party controlled by the agendas of pro-abortionists, pro-homosexuals, pro-euthanasia, and anti-Christianity.

Republicans try to counterbalance this.
Sure, there are no pro-choicers, no pro-homosexuals, no pro-euthansians, and no anti-Christians in the Republican Party. Sure.
 
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Richardols:
Where are you pulling your nonsense from?

Where did I say that they are equal in terms of pro-life? Which post? I did say that neither is pro-life the way the Church defines pro-life.
So now you are saying a vote for Bush is better than a vote for Kerry regarding life issues? Or did you vote for the Constitution Party in this past election?
 
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Richardols:
Sure, there are no pro-choicers, no pro-homosexuals, no pro-euthansians, and no anti-Christians in the Republican Party. Sure.
It’s not the party’s agenda. You don’t see the Republicans refusing to vote on judical nominees just because they are Christian or pro-life now do you?
 
Brad said:
“Slaughter children” is not the same as “accidentally killing innocent civilians”. You don’t “slaughter children” by accident. You do it on purpose.

He also didn’t say that US policy was to slaughter innocent civilians. Read his posts, fer cryin’ out loud…
The Pope never publically stated the Iraq war was wrong. The Pope maintained his stance against all conflict.
And the Iraqi War wasn’t a conflict? JPII specifically opposed the war in letters to the President and in public statements.
 
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Brad:
So now you are saying a vote for Bush is better than a vote for Kerry regarding life issues? Or did you vote for the Constitution Party in this past election?
I said no such thing. I said, “neither is pro-life the way the Church defines pro-life.” Try to understand simple English.
 
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Richardols:
We know that some American soldiers were recently court-martialed and found guilty of deliberately killing Iraqi civilians. That wasn’t “collateral damage.” And, even if there were no trials, we know that some innocent civilians were deliberately killed by the Allies in World War II, that the same happened in Korea, and everyone knows about the deliberate killing of innocent civilians in Vietnam. Why would you assume that the same could not have happened in Iraq this time? Not to say that it was widespread, but that it happened, even by one platoon of soldiers.
Well not to split hairs but are we talking about civilians just minding their own business or suspected insurgents/terrorists/criminals? I am sure that in every war there are atrocities. There are cases of mistaken identity. The point is that it’s not the coalition forces who are DELIBERATELY TARGETING civilians, it is the insurgent/terrorist faction.

Lisa N
 
Lisa N:
The point is that it’s not the coalition forces who are DELIBERATELY TARGETING civilians…
Then why were those soldiers court-martialled if not for deliberate homicide?

We know that such is not official policy, nor ever was in our recent wars. But, it happens. Soldiers criminally kill civilians or even captured enemy forces. It’s still against the law regardlesss who the victim is, and, sure, very few men do that, but it does occur.
 
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delcor:
Everything you’ve described here is PURE partisanship. At least be honest about it, and don’t sully the Bible or religion in the name of a phony war.

It was President Bush’s father, George Herbert Walker Bush who decided that Saddam should stay in power and he imposed economic sanctions on Iraq after the first Bush war there. We already had a war with Saddam, Desert Storm. President Bush (the father) handled it brilliantly. Did you read about that war when President Bush 41 was in office? This current “war” is just a shameful blood thirsty sin against humanity, painted over by a broad brush hoodwink to the public in the name of “9/11.” So where is Osama anyway?

Take a look at the slaughtered children in Iraq. They have a right to life just like anyone else. So much for your Christianity. Nothing Christian about an irresponsible abuse of power.
Bush 41 got UN “approval” (yet, did you know that the number of countries signed on was LESS than that of the CURRENT COALITION?). The UN said they would go along ONLY to push Saddam back from Kuwait, and NOT follow him all the way to Bagdad. Certainly, in hindsight, was that “brilliant”??

Saddam did NOT comply to the “peace treaty” that he signed after Desert Storm. UN resolution after UN resolution, the international community begged him to comply. The economic sanctions?? Worthless–because most leaders care about the economic well-being of his countrymen. NOT him!! We saw that we could get food to Iraqis in exchange for Iraqi Oil. Did the food get to starving Iraqis?? NO–because Saddam skimmed 21 BILLION dollars off the program, bribing european officials, to families of PLO suicide bombers, and built palaces for himself. All the while, keeping Iraqis under his thumb through rape torture and intimidation.

Certainly, in hindsight, was that “brilliant” to not have handled Saddam back in ’ 91??

After 9/11, what to do?? Saddam was *not *involved in carring out those specific attacks. HOWEVER the Global War on Terror is not just about Al Queda. It’s not *just *about the Taliban. It’s not just about Hamas. It’s not just about Hezbollah. It’s not just about Al Islam etc etc.
It’s not just about the kidnappings. It’s not just about the beheadings. It’s not just about suicide bombings. Or car bombings. IT"S ABOUT THE FINANCIAL AND OPERATIONAL SUPPORT for such attacks. IT’S ABOUT THE MEANS TO SUPPLY terrorists with WMD.

The list of bad guys in the world is long. Saddam, giving his history of war, murder, corruption, and defiance of a peace treaty and 17 UN resolutions, President CLINTON signed a joint resolution of Congress putting forth a policy that the US wanted REGIME CHANGE in Iraq. That was 1998. Well before 9/11, when the idea that we were no longer safe from evil men and their financiers and supporters became forefront.

Much of the War on Terror getts LITTLE media attention. Much of the war on terror has LITTLE to do with violence!! Blocking bank accounts. Auditing business suspected of terrorist ties. Gaining information from captured terrorists. Cooperation with allies. Diplomacy with less-than-trustworthy.

MOST OF ALL, the LARGEST victories on the war on terror came in the non-violent days of October 9, 2004 in Afganistan and this past January 30, 2005 in Iraq!

FREE exercise of speech, assembly, association and religion DEFEATS the hate and resentment that breeds the hopelessness that fuels the terrorist rage. The Coalition is building schools, hospitals, sanitation and electrical networks, repairing homes and offices, training police and military personnel…this isn’t violence. It is love, compassion, charity, and hope!!

Osama?? Either he’s safely hidden but with no place to go, or we know exactly where he is, and we intercept his communicae with his minnions to thwart other attacks. I DON’T KNOW. But the Middle East is seeing rays of hope, instead of seething rage, and that makes Osama a little less relavant every day.
 
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Richardols:
Then why were those soldiers court-martialled if not for deliberate homicide?

We know that such is not official policy, nor ever was in our recent wars. But, it happens. Soldiers criminally kill civilians or even captured enemy forces. It’s still against the law regardlesss who the victim is, and, sure, very few men do that, but it does occur.
Well you will have to clue me in on the court martials for soldiers who deliberately killed innocent civilians. I realize we have the oddity of the Abu Ghraib situation but the prisoners were not innocent civilians. There is also the court martial of the US Soldier who threw the grenade in his own forces’ tent.

I suppose there may be a case or two but this is not the policy of the US army or the administration to target civilians. It IS the policy of the insurgents.

Lisa N
 
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Richardols:
He also didn’t say that US policy was to slaughter innocent civilians. Read his posts, fer cryin’ out loud…
I’m sorry if you have trouble with reading comprehension. When someone says that the US is “slaughtering children”, it suggests that the US is purposely killing children. If a country is purposely killing children, it implies they have a policy behind the purpose.
His posts were inflammatory and they ignored the true evil, which was Sadaam killing innocent civilians.
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Richardols:
And the Iraqi War wasn’t a conflict? JPII specifically opposed the war in letters to the President and in public statements.
Proof please.
 
Lisa N:
Well you will have to clue me in on the court martials for soldiers who deliberately killed innocent civilians. I realize we have the oddity of the Abu Ghraib situation but the prisoners were not innocent civilians. There is also the court martial of the US Soldier who threw the grenade in his own forces’ tent.

I suppose there may be a case or two but this is not the policy of the US army or the administration to target civilians. It IS the policy of the insurgents.

Lisa N
Don’t suppose anything until he provides supporting evidence for the outlandish claims that the US has some kind of policy to target innocent people for death.
 
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Brad:
. When someone says that the US is “slaughtering children”, it suggests that the US is purposely killing children.
You said directly, “Delcor is saying that US strategy in Iraq is to kill children.”

He did not say that. Period.
 
This is a political game they are playing. The ploy is to get Iraq to look like Vietnam. If Americans think that Iraq is another Vietnam, we will leave before the job is done and the Islamofascists and Baathists will divide the country. That will give the Islamofascists a base in which to strike at the US homeland.

That ploy is failing, no matter what some disenfranchised Lefties would like to be happening.
 
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