Democratic Strategists Issue Memo on Loss of Catholics

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Brad:
Proof please.
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Sure. Read All the Pope’s Men by John Allen, Doubleday 2004. It goes into some detail on the efforts of the Vatican to express its opposition to Bush’s war plans and to try to stop the invasion.

It’s an interesting book and covers a lot more about the operations of the Vatican.
 
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gilliam:
That will give the Islamofascists a base in which to strike at the US homeland.
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Right. I can picture those Islamofascist ICBMs (Bush knows they have them) striking America, full of WMDs (Bush knows they have them).
 
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Richardols:
Right. I can picture those Islamofascist ICBMs (Bush knows they have them) striking America, full of WMDs (Bush knows they have them).
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Don’t need ICBMs if you have the ability to train your terrorists and then ship them off to America and have a place to plan and coordiante the distribution of tools of distruction for them to use.

Read Mao
 
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gilliam:
Don’t need ICBMs if you have the ability to train your terrorists and then ship them off to America
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Okay.
have a place to plan and coordiante the distribution of tools of distruction for them to use.
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The tools of destruction? Those same WMDs that we went to war over? Right.
 
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Richardols:
You said directly, “Delcor is saying that US strategy in Iraq is to kill children.”

He did not say that. Period.
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I stand by my statement. The inflammatory rhetoric is intended to make some believe that is the case.
 
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Richardols:
Sure. Read All the Pope’s Men by John Allen, Doubleday 2004. It goes into some detail on the efforts of the Vatican to express its opposition to Bush’s war plans and to try to stop the invasion.

It’s an interesting book and covers a lot more about the operations of the Vatican.
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This is not proof of the Pope saying that he opposed the Iraq war. I need proof. Give me a quote from the book if you’d like.
 
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Brad:
I stand by my statement. The inflammatory rhetoric is intended to make some believe that is the case.
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You’re like that Iranian who denied that he shook the Israeli president’s hand at JPII’s funeral Mass even though there were witnesses.

You can read delcor’s posts, everyone of them, and see that he did not make the statement you quoted.

You just ought to own up to it. It’s in black and yellow.
 
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Brad:
This is not proof of the Pope saying that he opposed the Iraq war. I need proof. Give me a quote from the book if you’d like.
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I tell you that a particular book has the proof you seek and that you can read it yourself. But, you say that the book, which you don’t seem to want to read, is not proof.

If it’s not proof, then my quoting something from what you reject as proof is pointless.

Or are you looking for a handwritten letter from John Paul II to me that states explicitly that he opposed the war?
 
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Richardols:
You’re like that Iranian who denied that he shook the Israeli president’s hand at JPII’s funeral Mass even though there were witnesses.

You can read delcor’s posts, everyone of them, and see that he did not make the statement you quoted.

You just ought to own up to it. It’s in black and yellow.
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I didn’t quote him. If you want me to apologize for my statement that he is insinuating it is US policy to kill innocent civilians by saying that we are “slaughtering children” then you are barking up the wrong tree.

Let’s put that aside and deal with a direct quote. He said the US is “slaughtering children”. Provide evidence for that outrageous claim.
 
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Richardols:
I tell you that a particular book has the proof you seek and that you can read it yourself. But, you say that the book, which you don’t seem to want to read, is not proof.

If it’s not proof, then my quoting something from what you reject as proof is pointless.

Or are you looking for a handwritten letter from John Paul II to me that states explicitly that he opposed the war?
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I’m looking for a letter to anybody or a statement to anybody from the Pope that says he opposed the Iraq war. Why is this such a problem if he so vociferously opposed the Iraq war?
 
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Brad:
I didn’t quote him. If you want me to apologize for my statement that he is insinuating it is US policy to kill innocent civilians by saying that we are “slaughtering children” then you are barking up the wrong tree.
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Why apologize? In not one of your posts did you use the term “insinuating”? You said that he directly declared that to be US policy.
 
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Richardols:
Why apologize? In not one of your posts did you use the term “insinuating”? You said that he directly declared that to be US policy.
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If you want to keep playing this game (and I really don’t) then I will say to you that nowhere did i say he “directly declared” that to be US policy.
 
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Brad:
I’m looking for a letter to anybody or a statement to anybody from the Pope that says he opposed the Iraq war. Why is this such a problem if he so vociferously opposed the Iraq war?
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  1. Read the book I recommended. It really exists and it goes into some detail.
  2. Read the Statement of Cardinal Pio Laghi to President George Bush of 5 Mar 2003, expressing the Pope’s admonition that “a decision regarding the use of military force can only be taken within the framework of the United Nations.” This is not the only statement made.
  3. No one said that the Pope “so vociferously opposed the war.” You are saying this so that you can say that unless the Pope was rolling his eyes and foaming at the mouth about the war, he wasn’t opposed to it.
 
Richardols said:
1. Read the book I recommended. It really exists and it goes into some detail.
  1. Read the Statement of Cardinal Pio Laghi to President George Bush of 5 Mar 2003, expressing the Pope’s admonition that “a decision regarding the use of military force can only be taken within the framework of the United Nations.” This is not the only statement made.
  2. No one said that the Pope “so vociferously opposed the war.” You are saying this so that you can say that unless the Pope was rolling his eyes and foaming at the mouth about the war, he wasn’t opposed to it.
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Pope John Paul II’s opposition to war is what one would hope and pray for. I would not want a pope who advocated war. Pope John Paul II was a great man of peace and his message of unconditional love touched countless millions, if not billions. However, his opinion on the Iraq war is just that… his opinion. It was not ex cathedra. The CCC recognizes that the temporal authority has the right and duty to protect its citizens. This also applies to capital punishment. To intimate, as the left is now doing, that Catholic doctrine states that all war is wrong and the death penalty should never be used is fallacious.
 
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condan:
Pope John Paul II’s opposition to war is what one would hope and pray for. I would not want a pope who advocated war. Pope John Paul II was a great man of peace and his message of unconditional love touched countless millions, if not billions. However, his opinion on the Iraq war is just that… his opinion. It was not ex cathedra. The CCC recognizes that the temporal authority has the right and duty to protect its citizens. This also applies to capital punishment. To intimate, as the left is now doing, that Catholic doctrine states that all war is wrong and the death penalty should never be used is fallacious.
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Well said.
 
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condan:
However, his opinion on the Iraq war is just that… his opinion.
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You think his opinion is just like yours or mine? He’s the Pope. And he’s not telling us what he thinks the best restaurant in Rome is. Right-wing Catholics can’t brush him off so easily.
It was not ex cathedra.
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So unless the Pope makes a formal declaration if infallibility, we don’t have to pay attention. Guess what? The Gospel of Life, Evangelium Vitae wasn’t declared infallibly either. But how many CAtholics can dismiss it as the Pope’s opinion?
To intimate, as the left is now doing, that Catholic doctrine states that all war is wrong and the death penalty should never be used is fallacious.
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Sure. You say never, so there can be no argument. But, the Church has narrowed the circumstances where war or the death penalty are justified so as to make them practically unusable.
 
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delcor:
I came here to learn about Christianity, not to argue with an obvious partisan who can’t decipher partisan talking points from reality.

What a ridiculous thing for you to say, that I’m Pro-Saddam. You’re obviously pro-Satan if you think slaughtering children is okay in your version of the Bible.

Goodnight.
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Excuse me, but you are the one that brought it up, and I quote:

*To: LisaN’s post

From what I’ve read here from supposed Catholics, you are all pro-war, and the Democrats aren’t. Quite frankly, I’m shocked at the blood thirsty attitudes here from Christian people about the war in Iraq. You really have to twist yourself into a pretzel to justify a “war” against a 3rd world country and the slaughter of innocent citizens and children. It’s shameful. This is just blatant partisanship, it’s NOT worship of faith or Christianity. *

If you wanted to talk about Christianity, then talk about it.
But as far as this thread is concerned…you hi-jacked it to discuss your agenda.
 
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