M
Michael_C
Guest
We agree, I’ll clarify it even better. All pro-life people regardless of political affiliation should be praised. Peace!
- Status
L
Lisa_N
Guest
Michael C:
Given that this is such an important issue, why do they want to remain Democrat? Since they don’t seem to be able to move the Dem party to their thinking, why not move to the party that supports life in their party platform? Before anyone says “well they don’t agree with other Republican issues” the same can be said for remaining a Democrat in a party that is militantly pro abortion if you are pro-life.
To me, given that the Democrat party WAS known the protect the weak and helpless, that they have capitulated on the issue of the weakest and most helpless, they have IMO sold their souls. I don’t understand how claiming to be for “worker’s rights” when those workers are adults and probably capable of some kind of self direction, superceeds protecting the right to life.
Maybe someone can 'splain that one to me. IMO the Dems fall down right at the starting gate and if they don’t get past that proabort stance, they will continue to lose mainstream Americans. They have good intentions, these prolife Dems, but you all know where those good intentions lead.
Lisa N
Good point. I went to the Dems for Life website and they have a lot of good articles. I guess it would be difficult to be a stranger in a strange land (pro life Democrat).
Given that this is such an important issue, why do they want to remain Democrat? Since they don’t seem to be able to move the Dem party to their thinking, why not move to the party that supports life in their party platform? Before anyone says “well they don’t agree with other Republican issues” the same can be said for remaining a Democrat in a party that is militantly pro abortion if you are pro-life.
To me, given that the Democrat party WAS known the protect the weak and helpless, that they have capitulated on the issue of the weakest and most helpless, they have IMO sold their souls. I don’t understand how claiming to be for “worker’s rights” when those workers are adults and probably capable of some kind of self direction, superceeds protecting the right to life.
Maybe someone can 'splain that one to me. IMO the Dems fall down right at the starting gate and if they don’t get past that proabort stance, they will continue to lose mainstream Americans. They have good intentions, these prolife Dems, but you all know where those good intentions lead.
Lisa N
J
JimG
Guest
The point is this. The Republican Party is not uniformly pro-life–not even the VP–but it’s leadership is, including the President.
There are Republicans who oppose the pro-life cause. As in any political party, there is always jockeying for position among the various factions. We could find ourselves in four years with perhaps Rudy Giuliani and Arnold Schwarzenegger (both pro-aborts) running the party.
The Democratic party used to welcome a variety of positions on abortion, but the pro-abortion faction has successfully captured the leadership and the platform. There is no inherent reason why that cannot be reversed.
People who tend to agree with the Democrats on economic, social justice or issues of corporate power and are also pro-life would be happy to embrace pro-life Democrats. There’s nothing wrong with working within any political party to try to change its public positions.
There are Republicans who oppose the pro-life cause. As in any political party, there is always jockeying for position among the various factions. We could find ourselves in four years with perhaps Rudy Giuliani and Arnold Schwarzenegger (both pro-aborts) running the party.
The Democratic party used to welcome a variety of positions on abortion, but the pro-abortion faction has successfully captured the leadership and the platform. There is no inherent reason why that cannot be reversed.
People who tend to agree with the Democrats on economic, social justice or issues of corporate power and are also pro-life would be happy to embrace pro-life Democrats. There’s nothing wrong with working within any political party to try to change its public positions.
T
TheKid
Guest
Michael C:
OK
C
caroljm36
Guest
It must be hard for them. Pro-lifers are completely marginalized in the Democratic party. You just can’t run for office as a Dem and be anti-abortion anymore. It’s a litmus test for candidacy now.
And things are not all that much better in the Republicans. I believe any Republican running in NY or California would have to pass the same litmus test. But at least it’s possible to run somewhere else. I just recently became active with my local party and I don’t sense much interest in pro-life issues and right now I’m layin’ low. They have a pro-life mole and don’t know it!
And things are not all that much better in the Republicans. I believe any Republican running in NY or California would have to pass the same litmus test. But at least it’s possible to run somewhere else. I just recently became active with my local party and I don’t sense much interest in pro-life issues and right now I’m layin’ low. They have a pro-life mole and don’t know it!
L
Lisa_N
Guest
So riddle me this then. If the Dems are against corporate power, how come Enron, Tyco, WorldCom et al happened on BILL CLINTON’S watch? The regulating boards that should have put the kabosh on these execs raping and pillaging were hamstrung. It was not until we saw the fallout that Sorbannes-Oxley was passed. Hopefully we won’t see the like again but who was asleep at the wheel when the cookie jar was being raided?
Then we can point to Clinton passing welfare reform. Hmmmm sounds a bit Republican to me…
IOW saying Democrats are always protecting of the little guy (tell that to Enron employees who have no pension left) or against corporate greed or wanting to help “the poor” is not based on any stellar performance by a two term Democrat president.
So elect a Dem and you have all the things that Republicans are charged with creating AND a proabort platform that is built like a brick wall.
IOW what do you have to work with? They ARENT going to change on abortion. Why not move to the Republican side and try to change THEIR less strongly held positions regarding social justice etc.
Lisa N
J
JimG
Guest
Lisa N:
Someone (on another thread?) mentioned Robert Kennedy Jr, who makes some good points about corporate abuses, yet has a blind spot on abortion.
A political party is only a political party; it’s not an exclusively pro-life organization. I’d like to influence both parties towards the pro-life position.
I’ll agree that the Dems aren’t likely to change on abortion anytime soon, yet… there remains the Democrats for Life, which is a glimmer of hope. One could also hope that the election results would be a teaching moment for them; (but the entrenched pro-aborts would rather attribute the election loss to ANYthing but their pro-abortion position.)
Someone (on another thread?) mentioned Robert Kennedy Jr, who makes some good points about corporate abuses, yet has a blind spot on abortion.
A political party is only a political party; it’s not an exclusively pro-life organization. I’d like to influence both parties towards the pro-life position.
L
Lisa_N
Guest
You and me both! Maybe this election will wake them up a bit. FWIW I was also encouraged by the Dems for Life website. Lots of good info, articles, and it’s very clear their position is solid, none of this “well we think abortion should be rare but we won’t stand up and make it so.”
Lisa N
M
mlchance
Guest
Some time in the next 20 or so years, the abortion issue will destruct the Democratic Party and, quite possibly, the Republican Party as well, in the same way the slavery issue wreaked havoc with parties in the mid-19th century.
The results will produce an ardently anti-abortion party that will, at a minimum, work to make nearly all abortions illegal regardless of what stage the pregnancy is in. If this new party also picks up the foreign policy strengths of the GOP and the domestic policy strengths of the DNC, it will become the reigning party for years to come.
All of the talk about reforming the Democratic Party and the DNC gaining a “values-based” language is actually the beginning of the end. The DNC will go the way of the Whigs and the Know-Nothings.
– Mark L. Chance.
The results will produce an ardently anti-abortion party that will, at a minimum, work to make nearly all abortions illegal regardless of what stage the pregnancy is in. If this new party also picks up the foreign policy strengths of the GOP and the domestic policy strengths of the DNC, it will become the reigning party for years to come.
All of the talk about reforming the Democratic Party and the DNC gaining a “values-based” language is actually the beginning of the end. The DNC will go the way of the Whigs and the Know-Nothings.
– Mark L. Chance.
H
Hildebrand
Guest
space ghost:
The “pro-choice” groups want to see abortions. The more the better for them. There is strength in numbers.
The abortion doctors making a small fortune by killing children want to see more abortions if that means more $$.there’s not a soul out there that wants to see an abortion… but lets stay on the planet… there have been abortions since the Egyptians…
The “pro-choice” groups want to see abortions. The more the better for them. There is strength in numbers.
S
space_ghost
Guest
my point (although greatly misrepresented in this thread) is that there are as many prochoice/death self proclaimed conservative republicans as prochoice/death democrats… the difference i see is that one group thinks they can legislate morality or impose their morality on their neighbors. As i have said consistently in the past, that (at lease for me) i don’t personally know of anyone who approves of abortion (in the sence of wanting to kill babies)… yes, there is a group that benefits from the $$$$$ i.e., the abortion Dr…
and those that work for him/her…
where i take issue with several in this thread are those that try to spin that if your democrat, then by default your prodeath… your wrong…
S
space_ghost
Guest
Lisa N:
you probably need to broaden your horizons… 99% of democrats i know are against abortion…
S
space_ghost
Guest
and prolife republicans are in the same boat against prodeath republicans… you guys act like you have never met a prodeath republlican…
S
space_ghost
Guest
Lisa N:
your absolutely right… sin has been around since the garden… no one likes it, no one wants it to continue, but to put you head in the sand and act like you can legislate sin away is not being too realistic… no one likes murder of any kind… you have times of reduced murder (thank God)… you also have times in this world when you wonder will the insanity ever stop… i hope to see the day when there are no more abortions… do you know someone who doesn’t?
M
mlchance
Guest
space ghost:
– Mark L. Chance.
That’s quite odd considering that the Democratic Party platform and the Democratic Party’s last presidential candidate are both unabashedly pro-abortion. Perhaps you need to the horizon broadening since the Democrats you know obviously aren’t representative of the Democratic Party itself.
– Mark L. Chance.
T
Timidity
Guest
space ghost:
The great mantra of one side is “you can’t legislate morality”.
My feeling is that morality is the only thing that government should legislate. Arson is immoral, so the government has every right (and duty) to legislate against it. Likewise with robbery, rape, and assualt & battery. And, yes, abortion.
On the other hand the color fushia is not immoral, so the government has no business legislating the color fushia. Any attempt to do so is an abuse of power.
I think this is at the very core of political debate.
The great mantra of one side is “you can’t legislate morality”.
My feeling is that morality is the only thing that government should legislate. Arson is immoral, so the government has every right (and duty) to legislate against it. Likewise with robbery, rape, and assualt & battery. And, yes, abortion.
On the other hand the color fushia is not immoral, so the government has no business legislating the color fushia. Any attempt to do so is an abuse of power.
M
mlchance
Guest
Ah, yes. The great cop-out. Martin Luther King, Jr., must spin in his grave when ever someone twists his words to justify things like abortion. The full, actual quote is more or less to this effect: “We cannot legislate morality, but we must regulate behavior.”
What Dr. King meant was this: Merely passing a law will not make people moral, but that is no excuse for lawlessness.
– Mark L. Chance.
L
Lisa_N
Guest
space ghost:
You use the same convoluted logic that the Executive Director of the local PP used when I wrote them a letter saying why I would NOT donate to their cause. He claims “no one is for abortion.” You know what? It doesn’t matter whether people say they are for or against. The reality is that abortion is happening. Every day. Every where and at every stage of pregnancy. Organizations like PP, NARAL and frankly the Democrat party are ensuring it will not stop. The Dem candidate and his running mate were MILITANTLY proabort as far as their ACTIONS (don’t give a rip what they say frankly). That is reality. Say what you want about life beginning at conception. When you have 100% proabort voting record, your words matter not at all.
The whole Dem idea that you can be “against” abortion but allow it to occur without further action is proof of the adage talk is cheap.
Lisa N
IF our country’s citizens sincerely thought abortion should stop, it could be done overnight. There is a huge and powerful proabort lobby and it is more evident in the Democrat party. You can spin this any old way you want but if you look at the Dem PLATFORM, if you consider the way prolife Dems are treated by their own party, then to claim the Dem party is not pro abortion rights tells me that you need to say hi to the Tin Man and Cowardly Lion next time you run into them. Claiming the Dem party and thus its members are not FUNCTIONING to support abortion on demand is livin’ in the land of Oz.your absolutely right… sin has been around since the garden… no one likes it, no one wants it to continue, but to put you head in the sand and act like you can legislate sin away is not being too realistic… no one likes murder of any kind… you have times of reduced murder (thank God)… you also have times in this world when you wonder will the insanity ever stop… i hope to see the day when there are no more abortions… do you know someone who doesn’t?
You use the same convoluted logic that the Executive Director of the local PP used when I wrote them a letter saying why I would NOT donate to their cause. He claims “no one is for abortion.” You know what? It doesn’t matter whether people say they are for or against. The reality is that abortion is happening. Every day. Every where and at every stage of pregnancy. Organizations like PP, NARAL and frankly the Democrat party are ensuring it will not stop. The Dem candidate and his running mate were MILITANTLY proabort as far as their ACTIONS (don’t give a rip what they say frankly). That is reality. Say what you want about life beginning at conception. When you have 100% proabort voting record, your words matter not at all.
The whole Dem idea that you can be “against” abortion but allow it to occur without further action is proof of the adage talk is cheap.
Lisa N
C
Catholic_Heart
Guest
Michael C:
I have to say that I find the Republican or nothing attitude to be found on these forums to be very irritating. There are plenty of Democrats who are pro-life, and who do not approve of same sex marriages. To paint everyone with the same broad brush is not right…
I am a Demorcrat who is very much pro-life…I voted for Bush for that reason, alone. I wanted to vote against him, because of the War in Iraq, but could not. Don’t get me started on that one…I could write a book…
Catholic Heart
I agree with you. I, too, have been to the Democrats for Life website, and find these people to be good and sincere in their efforts to influence the Democratic Party.
I have to say that I find the Republican or nothing attitude to be found on these forums to be very irritating. There are plenty of Democrats who are pro-life, and who do not approve of same sex marriages. To paint everyone with the same broad brush is not right…
I am a Demorcrat who is very much pro-life…I voted for Bush for that reason, alone. I wanted to vote against him, because of the War in Iraq, but could not. Don’t get me started on that one…I could write a book…
Catholic Heart
L
Lisa_N
Guest
Catholic Heart said:
CatholicHeart I don’t see so much condemnation of Democrats as individuals as the reality the party does NOT support prolife issues or legislation. I suggested that prolife Dems might well find refuge in the Republican party which has for at least the past few decades been the prolife party. The Dems have become more and more militantly proabortion rights. I just do NOT recall them being AS militant in the past as they are now. It’s literally the litmus test for electability. Further by your own admission, abortion is enough of an issue that it would cause your vote to change from your party.
I could completely relate to the Democrat party of the past. In fact I USED to be a Democrat. Registered that way at age 18. But as Zell Miller has pointed out, they need to get back to their roots. I don’t even recognize the Democrat party anymore.
Lisa N
- Status