Dems Say It's Time for GOP to Unite, End Shutdown

[Holly3278]

I really wish that this shutdown would end. The main reason why I want it to end is because I see how it is affecting so many people. I am afraid it will affect me in the near future as well. I am afraid that if we reach the debt ceiling that their will be an economic disaster and then all forms of welfare will be thrown out the window. I hope I am simply jumping to conclusions here but I fear that I might not be. I fear for the thousands, if not millions, of people who would be deeply affected by this in the future and who have already been affected by it.

On the other hand, I kind of hope that the shutdown continues because I hope that it will lead to an end on the many attacks on our civil rights.

I really have no idea where to stand on this issue. I don’t know enough about government and I don’t fully understand the social teachings of the Church and so I am just not sure where to stand on this. Personally, I think it would be best if the shutdown were ended but I also hope that when the shutdown is ended, our civil rights will be returned to us in full.

I am so sick and tired of the Obama administration and Democrats attacking our civil liberties. The civil liberty that I believe to be most under attach is our First Amendment rights. The HHS Contraceptive Mandate which violates our religious liberty is a prime example of this.

I really think I would be happy with the government shutdown ending if the HHS Contraceptive Mandate was completely and totally revoked.

 

[SamH]

I really wish that this shutdown would end. The main reason why I want it to end is because I see how it is affecting so many people. I am afraid it will affect me in the near future as well. I am afraid that if we reach the debt ceiling that their will be an economic disaster and then all forms of welfare will be thrown out the window. I hope I am simply jumping to conclusions here but I fear that I might not be. I fear for the thousands, if not millions, of people who would be deeply affected by this in the future and who have already been affected by it.

On the other hand, I kind of hope that the shutdown continues because I hope that it will lead to an end on the many attacks on our civil rights.

I really have no idea where to stand on this issue. I don’t know enough about government and I don’t fully understand the social teachings of the Church and so I am just not sure where to stand on this. Personally, I think it would be best if the shutdown were ended but I also hope that when the shutdown is ended, our civil rights will be returned to us in full.

I am so sick and tired of the Obama administration and Democrats attacking our civil liberties. The civil liberty that I believe to be most under attach is our First Amendment rights. The HHS Contraceptive Mandate which violates our religious liberty is a prime example of this.

I really think I would be happy with the government shutdown ending if the HHS Contraceptive Mandate was completely and totally revoked.

I haven’t met a person yet that has really noticed that the government is shut down.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I haven’t met a person yet that has really noticed that the government is shut down.

You need to meet more people and make more friends.

 

[ishii]

Are you responding to my post?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11296896&postcount=1119

FYI: Jon Huntsman is hardly a socialist and the Buckley Rule is not a leftist idea.

The way I see it, if Catholic conservatives were sincere when they say that the goal of ending abortion is their top priority above and beyond all others, then they would choose life over justice and vote for a pro-life candidate like Jon Huntsman, who is a rational conservative and can WIN an election.

Otherwise, they are choosing justice over life, which makes then no different than liberal Catholics who vote for progressive pro-choice candidates. Because where conservatives focus on justice for the baby, liberals focus on justice for the woman - and if you don’t think there are justice issues that affect women when it comes to reproductive rights and government regulation of pregnancy, you are gravely mistaken.

What does Mother Church want? I refer you back to my earlier post about what King Solomon was really testing when he ordered that he baby be cut in half…

Every good mother knows that sometimes you must compromise justice and choose life. This is Jesus on the Cross - this is the will of God.

Liberal/left talking points. And nothing more than unsubstantiated, weak, political analysis - “Huntsman would win.” You have no idea if he would have won. The liberal/left smear machine would have gone to work on him just as they did against Romney/Ryan - all in the name of some liberal, “women’s justice” issue like if you’re not for free birth control for grad students then you’re “anti-women.”

Bellasbane - you referred to some as having drunk the “Kool-Aid.” Perhaps you ought to reflect on what you’ve been drinking yourself?

Ishii

 

[SamH]

Liberal/left talking points. And nothing more than unsubstantiated, weak, political analysis - “Huntsman would win.” You have no idea if he would have won. The liberal/left smear machine would have gone to work on him just as they did against Romney/Ryan - all in the name of some liberal, “women’s justice” issue like if you’re not for free birth control for grad students then you’re “anti-women.”

Bellasbane - you referred to some as having drunk the “Kool-Aid.” Perhaps you ought to reflect on what you’ve been drinking yourself?

Ishii

I remember people saying the same thing when McCain ran against Bush. Later when he did run he was tarred as a far right hardliner.

 

[SamH]

You need to meet more people and make more friends.

Why?

 

[ProVobis]

I really wish that this shutdown would end. The main reason why I want it to end is because I see how it is affecting so many people. I am afraid it will affect me in the near future as well. I am afraid that if we reach the debt ceiling that their will be an economic disaster and then all forms of welfare will be thrown out the window. I hope I am simply jumping to conclusions here but I fear that I might not be. I fear for the thousands, if not millions, of people who would be deeply affected by this in the future and who have already been affected by it.

On the other hand, I kind of hope that the shutdown continues because I hope that it will lead to an end on the many attacks on our civil rights.

The politicians will only follow the markets. No one wants to go home to have to explain why their 401k’s have gone down in value. If the markets remain calm, there is no urgency to stir up trouble of any kind. When markets start crashing 500-600 points a day, they will act. So much for ideology.

 

[qui_est_ce]

one of the prime tenants of the left is that anyone who disagrees with them are either dupes, idiots or both.It’s not that they don’t respect other views-it’s that they can’t comprehend there are other views

Exactly. I had a conversation with my very liberal sister-in-law about the Pope and something else, (forget). She said she was surprised we agreed on two things, because we usually don’t agree on anything. I was shocked. I said, I thought we agreed on a lot of things, just not how to achieve them.

 

[qui_est_ce]

It is easy to point fingers and hard to take criticism.

Yes, it’s unfair to classify people as either “stupid” or “evil”, but it is also unfair to use hyperbole like “endless comments from liberal posters here on CAF ridiculing conservatives”, when anyone who has posted on this forum for any amount of time knows it is simply not true.

Why do you make up stuff like that?

No need to make it up We read your posts

Which is precisely why conservatives have got to stop committing political suicide and start nominating folks who are electable! Geesh. Get rid of the crazies already!

Romney lost because (1) **he’s a dweeb **and (2) he went so far to the right to win the primaries that he couldn’t recover for the general election.

As long as the GOP base cannot figure out they should nominate someone like Jon Huntsman, continue to drink the Koch Brothers kool-aid, and keep rallying around clowns like Sarah Palin, Herman Cain or Michele Bachmann, I will never vote Republican, because I do not vote against the Common Good.

If the GOP base really cared about protecting life, they would remember the Buckley Rule.

Yes, we conservatives just drink the Koch brothers kool-aid. Can’t possibly base our views on thoughtful, informed reflection.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Liberal/left talking points. And nothing more than unsubstantiated, weak, political analysis - “Huntsman would win.” You have no idea if he would have won. The liberal/left smear machine would have gone to work on him just as they did against Romney/Ryan - all in the name of some liberal, “women’s justice” issue like if you’re not for free birth control for grad students then you’re “anti-women.”

Bellasbane - you referred to some as having drunk the “Kool-Aid.” Perhaps you ought to reflect on what you’ve been drinking yourself?

Ishii

All the right-wing people I voted for, Santorum, Paul Ryan who are boldly Catholic and pro-life, Ryan going so far as to go over his budge with his bishop, are right wing CRAZIES.

 

[estesbob]

I haven’t met a person yet that has really noticed that the government is shut down.

It has been devastating for many of my clients who depend on visitors to Rocky Mountain National park for their livelihood. Fortunately the State stepped in and reopened the park for at least the next ten days

 

[Kal2012]

You do realize that by condoning what the GOP is doing, you are essentially throwing the American democratic process under the bus in favor of rule by oligarchy.

In all charity, my guess is that this is something you simply failed to realize and am glad to have had this opportunity to enlighten you.

Both political parties are reaping what they’ve been sowing. Republicans are tired of going along with their chosen Party because its leaders routinely betrays its grassroots supporters and volunteers. The Dems passed ACA w/o any Republican votes. If the shutdown hadn’t happened over the ACA, then it would have likely happened over something else. Neither party has much incentive to compromise with the other. This is also what people voted for when they voted for divided government.

Making legislation isn’t always going to be neat and pretty and tied up in a bow. We need to get our grown-up panties on and deal with the fact that our society is very divided and there’s minimal room for negotiation on most issues.

 

[bellasbane]

I am almost always puzzled initially when people talk about “justice” in a socioeconomic sense. It often seems to me it’s a ideological position.

You are right - socioeconomics is ideological (mind) but it is also moral (heart) and that is why you need to engage both the mind and the heart when evaluating economic practices and policy. The example that demonstrates this most vividly and obviously is the economics of slave societies. For most of the history of the human race, this was regarded as a legitimate way to organize the economy - not any more.

Since we are not moral relativists, the Catholic Bishops have weighed in on what is the morally correct economic ideology - but you already know this. I’m not writing for you, Ridge, but for those who may not know.

For those folks, I recommend the many resources posted on the USCCB website regarding Economic Justice: usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/economic-justice-economy/index.cfm

Possibly you could tell us what you mean when you talk about “focusing on justice for the woman”, or “justice issues that affect women” when it comes to reproductive rights and government regulation of pregnancy.

Reproductive rights deals with a person’s natural right to regulate his or her fertility free from government coercion. This includes everything that directly affects the integrity of a person’s body. Examples include: Forced sterilization, forced pregnancy, and forced abortion.

I do not think any moral person would condone forcing a woman to GET pregnant, because that would be a violation of her dignity and integrity as a person. This is why rape and incest raise such a serious justice issue even among folks who would otherwise oppose abortion. They see abortion as a legitimate means by which to correct the injustice of a forced pregnancy. Even if this were true, I wouldn’t agree with the remedy, because life trumps justice. However, I see their point.

This is just one example. There are other issues that I could also discuss (e.g., aggressive laws that assume every miscarriage is an abortion unless proven otherwise), but that would require its own thread.

 

[Robert_Bay]

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