deny communion

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This is not a thred to debate extraordinary ministers of the eucharist. Stay on topic.

I was a eucharistic minister today at a school mass. While I was distributing a guy I know came up to receive. He is a strong athiest and mocks religion. I asked him there “aren’t you an atheist?” “Yes I am. Give it to me it tastes good,” he said.

So I denied him.

He told head of campus ministry I denied him. He told me that since he’s received all rites of initiation I shouldn’t have denied him. The head of campus ministry has told us time and time again we are not to deny or judge.

Would she understand my situation?
Was I in the wrong?
Are there any documents or something in the GIRM I can use?

Thanks.
 
Hey there. I’d just like to say that I’m sorry you were faced with such a predicament while being an EMHC.

That being said–I checked the GIRM and it gives no conditions for anyone to deny the Eucharist to anyone else.

However, I have heard several times on this forum that it is up to the Priest or Bishop to deny communion to public, unrepentant sinners. So, I’m guessing that unless the Priest gave the EMHC’s specific instruction in regards to this person, it wasn’t your place to deny communion.

Bless you for being an EMHC though. I pray that you won’t have to run into this predicament again.
 
Can. 1364 §1. Without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 194, §1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication; in addition, a cleric can be punished with the penalties mentioned in ⇒ can. 1336, §1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.

Can. 915 Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and **others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin **are not to be admitted to holy communion.

Declaring oneself to be an atheist right there in front of the altar is apostacy and certainly persevering in manifest grave sin.

You were right to protect the Eucharist from being profaned.

While the campus minister is correct that we “cannot judge” in the sense that even if we are knowledgeable of someone’s past sin we cannot know whether they have received sacramental confession. But, this isn’t such a situation. This person declared their atheism and made known that they are not in a position to receive the Eucharist.

This is serious, and I suggest you not mess with the “campus minister” and what they think but rather contact the diocese and ask for guidance from the Bishop’s office, perhaps the Office of Divine Worship or whatever it’s called in your diocese.
 
I think you need to discuss this with a priest to get guidance.

However, I believe you did the right thing. The guy confirmed right then and there in front of you that he is an atheist, and also made a disrespectful remark.

Normally, EMHCs should not deny anyone because it could be a matter of you suspecting he was in sin, but he possibly, unbeknown to you, could have gone to Confession and been absolved of that sin; and therefore due to that possibility you can not deny him. Not only that, but it’s not the place of anyone but a priest in Confession to evaluate the state of someone’s soul.

Having said that, however, in this case it is a matter of he profaned the Lord immediately before trying to receive (the sin being admitting he is an atheist and therefore rejecting God). So, yes, it seems that you did the right thing in denying him Communion.

But, we are not experts. Consult a priest.
 
I think you need to discuss this with a priest to get guidance.

However, I believe you did the right thing. The guy confirmed right then and there in front of you that he is an atheist, and also made a disrespectful remark. It’s not a matter of you suspecting he was in sin, but he possibly, unbeknown to you, could have gone to Confession and been absolved of that sin, and therefore due to that possibility you can not deny him . It is a matter of he sinned immediately before trying to receive (the sin being admitting he is an atheist and therefore rejecting God). So, yes, it seems that you did the right thing in denying him Communion.

But, we are not experts. Consult a priest.
 
When I was first trained to be an EMCH, I likewise was told not to refuse communion.
The focus with my current stateside parish was protecting the Eucharist. The most blatant example is the person who chooses to “pocket the Eucharist” rather than consume it.
The person stated his disbelief not only in the divinity of Christ in the Eucharist, but even in God. Your role would be protecting the Eucharist from profanation in this instance.
On 2 occasions, I had reason to suspect the person approaching the altar was not Catholic. After confirming this truth, I likewise refused Communion. I do understand your discomfort.
 
An EMHC is not supposed to be the person to judge whether a person is or isn’t supposed to receive communion unless they have been specifically told to not give to a certain person by the priest, pastor or Bishop.

However, if you feel uncomfortable giving the Eucharist to a specific person and you know them you can before or after Mass request the person go to the priest’s line (in order to try working things out not at the communion rail.) If they continue to come to you, you can instruct them to proceed to the priest’s line.

However if the priest says you are supposed to give the Eucharist to this person you have only three options:
  1. give the Eucharist to the person
  2. resign as an EMHC
  3. take it up with the next higher authority
 
In the military, one of the things they teach you in basic training is how you as a soldier are NOT to accept illegal orders from your superiors. This means, if you are told to do something that clearly violated military law, regardless of who gave you the order, you are not to obey that order. If you did accept and follow through with action on the illegal order, you are then liable to be prosecuted. Remember the illegal orders being carried out in Iraq against the prisoners, several people were prosecuted as a result even though they were simply following orders.

The church is the same thing, the timing of things is the toughest part to discern, dispensation is given by the priest under special circumstance, but only if allowed to flow through the proper channels and procedures. You did not have the luxury of going through the formal route, you had to act on the spot, this includes putting your own position in jeopardy. Were you more concerned with profaning the bread of life or keeping your position? I already know the answer to that one. You did absolutely nothing wrong in this particular case. The guy should have been escorted out of the place and enforcement of his excommunication should begin immediately, enforced by people preventing him from attending mass. Your priest should be made keenly aware of this individual, and he should take the initiative to follow through with terminating this persons involvement at your parish. If he does not, then he is in error and his superiors should be notified, if they do not follow through, then theirs should be, even if it means taking it up to the Vatican itself.

Sometimes you are forced to realize, the rules are on place for general procedure, they cannot be a blanket system that is blindly followed rigidly with no exception, and especially in today’s time, we as laypeople sometimes have to step in and enforce the spirit of it, even if the priest is not. Now, if you went around and decided this or that person, for what ever reason, and opted to deny them, you are then in error, for the law stands, and at the same time, the parish itself is in error, and it’s up to the priest to get to the bottom of it all.

Were the prophets merely following procedure and law, or were they breaking the powers that be into submission to the Lord? Same difference goes on here, and it’s an area clearly demonstrated by Jesus when he turned the tables in the temple. We must not blindly follow man’s authority, for we have a higher calling, less we repeat the mistakes of the past.

Luther was a good example of this, in spirit, (in application he took it too far), but clearly he pointed out where things were in error and was conveying this to the authorities within the church. Another example here, where regardless of the status quo, we are not to follow illegal orders…
 
Jesus,our Lords peace be with You.
My friend,You did what Your heart told You to. He had no right to recieve Communion because he has openly told that he is a atheist. What You did wos right,and You should talk with a priest,he will give You instructions for further situations,I would have deny him Communion,as I think every “good” catholic would have. Communion is a sacrament and must be treated as the most importen because Communion means that we recieve Jesus flesh and blood,and nobody has the right to recieve it if there is no faith,as I believe it wos in this case. My dear friend,You can sleep well,You did OK and You protected one of the most importen sacrament. Thank You for doing so and for protecting what we keep holy.
 
This is not a thred to debate extraordinary ministers of the eucharist. Stay on topic.

I was a eucharistic minister today at a school mass. While I was distributing a guy I know came up to receive. He is a strong athiest and mocks religion. I asked him there “aren’t you an atheist?” “Yes I am. Give it to me it tastes good,” he said.

So I denied him.

He told head of campus ministry I denied him. He told me that since he’s received all rites of initiation I shouldn’t have denied him. The head of campus ministry has told us time and time again we are not to deny or judge.

Would she understand my situation?
Was I in the wrong?
Are there any documents or something in the GIRM I can use?

Thanks.
How old was the person that you “denied”?

Good call, BTW. I would have done the same.
 
I am so tired of hearing “we can’t judge other people” when this sort of incident is cited. Read the post, people. The person accused himself of being an atheist and mocked the Eucharist. No need to “judge.” He told you the state of his soul. It is NOT “judgement” to refuse to give Holy Communion to such a person. You did exactly the right thing to protect the holy Eucharist from profanation.

I would certainly bring it up to the priest. He is the one responsible, not a lay minister.

You might be accused of “judging” somebody if you had heard through the rumor mill that they were having extra-marital sex, and took it upon yourself to deny communion. That is wrong. But in the case that the OP cited, no judgement is involved. It doesn’t get too much more black-and-white than this.
 
I am so tired of hearing “we can’t judge other people” when this sort of incident is cited. Read the post, people. The person accused himself of being an atheist and mocked the Eucharist. No need to “judge.” He told you the state of his soul. It is NOT “judgement” to refuse to give Holy Communion to such a person. You did exactly the right thing to protect the holy Eucharist from profanation.
Your summary of the issue would be fine if the person just came up for communion and said “I am an atheist give me communion.” The problem is the OP first said “aren’t you an atheist?” This is where the judging from the OP came in. Technically all an EMHC is supposed to say is “Blood of Christ” or “Body of Christ” to a person presenting themselves for communion (unless they are involved in the sacrement for the sick.)

If the person felt uncomfortable about this due to prior knowledge they should have referred the person to the priest’s line. As I said before the EMHC should bring this up with the priest and then after that they have only three real options:
  1. do what the priest says
  2. resign as an EMHC
  3. bring it up with a higher authority
 
Thanks.

The campus ministers said I shouldn’t feel bad.

Anyways, he’s either 16 or 17 I believe. And I’ve decided that I’m not going to hang out in his table during lunch anymore. He provoked me again during lunch…He likes trouble. I usually don’t ask, but I felt that he was doing this to cause trouble or to get a reaction from me since he knows I’m devout.

I was in a position I should have never been in (especially when I can count the Masses I’ve distributed the Eucharist on one hand). Though I must say, you never really know the amount of love you have for Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist until something like this happens. It’s made me love the Eucharist even more.

I plan on asking next time I distribute not to be placed in the section his grade sits in to avoid further conflict…And yet part of me is considering leaving the ministry.

And what I thought was truly amazing, a protestant friend of mine told me that she supports me 100% in this. I thought that was interesting.
 
The problem is the OP first said “aren’t you an atheist?” This is where the judging from the OP came in. Technically all an EMHC is supposed to say is “Blood of Christ” or “Body of Christ” to a person presenting themselves for communion (unless they are involved in the sacrement for the sick.)
I agree and that’s really the struggle I’m having because I know I shouldn’t have said anything, but from knowing the person I felt very uncomfortable giving him the Eucharist. I don’t do that normally. I don’t know why I did it. That’s where it gets into the grey.
 
I agree and that’s really the struggle I’m having because I know I shouldn’t have said anything, but from knowing the person I felt very uncomfortable giving him the Eucharist. I don’t do that normally. I don’t know why I did it. That’s where it gets into the grey.
And that is why your campus ministers said don’t feel bad. You will find that being an EMHC, especially if you ever get involved in Ministry for the Sick, can involve thinking on your feet. In the end you should make sure you are real familiar with the policies (both your local specifics and the Vatican policies) and do your best in the situation.

After the situation is over, talk it over with the priest to see if you did the right thing just in case it happens again.
 
And that is why your campus ministers said don’t feel bad. You will find that being an EMHC, especially if you ever get involved in Ministry for the Sick, can involve thinking on your feet. In the end you should make sure you are real familiar with the policies (both your local specifics and the Vatican policies) and do your best in the situation.

After the situation is over, talk it over with the priest to see if you did the right thing just in case it happens again.
I don’t know. I’m really considering withdrawing from the ministry.
 
I don’t know. I’m really considering withdrawing from the ministry.
That is up to you. If the reason you are thinking about withdrawing is because you are afraid of making a mistake again, confrontation, embarrasement, or other reason like that then that is the wrong reason to resign. Jesus never said things would be easy.

If you are thinking about resigning because the priest said you had to do x, y, and z and you are uncomfortable with doing that then you should resign. An EMHC serves at the request of the priest, pastor, and/or bishop. Unless directed differently from the bishop, the priest has ultimate say over who is denied communion at Mass. If the priest is doing something wrong, that information charitably needs to make its way to the pastor (if the priest isn’t the pastor) and then the bishop.
 
I don’t know. I’m really considering withdrawing from the ministry.
Your obligation as an EMHC is not to deny Communion to anyone but you must protect the blessed sacrament (the person declared himself an apostate) and you should send the person to receive from the priest. I have been in a similar situation and I was ordered not to give communion to the individual but to invite him to go to the line where the pastor was distributing communion.
 
Your summary of the issue would be fine if the person just came up for communion and said “I am an atheist give me communion.” The problem is the OP first said “aren’t you an atheist?” This is where the judging from the OP came in. Technically all an EMHC is supposed to say is “Blood of Christ” or “Body of Christ” to a person presenting themselves for communion (unless they are involved in the sacrement for the sick.)

If the person felt uncomfortable about this due to prior knowledge they should have referred the person to the priest’s line. As I said before the EMHC should bring this up with the priest and then after that they have only three real options:
  1. do what the priest says
  2. resign as an EMHC
  3. bring it up with a higher authority
It can be a slippery slope, but this is an extraordinarily clear situation. The OP knew this person very well and was hesitant to deny which is why the question was asked.

SalesianSDB, you were put into a terrible situation and used your love of Our Lord to lead you to the right path. Please don’t doubt for a moment that you acted properly.
 
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