Desecration of the Most Blessed Sacrament has taken place

[Della]

Yes, and we’re talking about a case where you’ve only established that the host was probably stolen, not stolen beyond a reasonable doubt. Without knowing where it was stolen, and who it was stolen from, there is no way to know for sure.

Which is why I wrote it would be a matter for the police to sort that out, if they pursued it. At least, that’s what I was trying to convey.

No, the student who walked out of mass with the Eucharist a few weeks ago.

Okay.

I don’t think anyone except the professor, and probably not even he, knows the circumstances under which the host was obtained.The facts of this case ARE hypothetical until you can establish them. And you haven’t established that every consecrated host belongs to the Archdiocese of St Paul and Minneapolis, because it’s simply not true. Thus we don’t know that a crime was committed in the case of this particular host, much less a hate crime.

As I understand it, the professor claimed it was a consecrated host. The only way he’d know that for certain, if he’s not lying, is if he asked someone to get one for him. If he did, he is a direct accomplish, if not, if he was given one and simply told it was consecrated, his guilt is lessened. In any case, if a parish buys hosts they belong to the parish. And if the hosts are consecrated they belong to the Church. All consecrated hosts belong to every Catholic parish no matter where it is consecrated because the Church isn’t just a local entity but a world-wide one that makes that claim.

This may be the point of misunderstanding. The Catholic Church’s position on this is pretty clear (although I’m not sure even the Church would claim legal ownership of hosts consecrated by a schismatic church).

We are not discussing schismatic churches here but the Catholic Church and a Catholic parish and a Catholic diocese.

What I was commenting on, and what I assumed you were responding to me about, was your original contention that a hate crime had taken place. That’s all fine and good. What you were originally saying was that he committed a hate crime, and that failure to pursue that was evidence of political correctness that would not have been present had he desecrated an item of some other faith.

And I still believe that to be true. The motive of PCism can’t be proven, unfortunately, but from the evidence put before us, I strongly believe this is the case. And it would be up to the bishop of the diocese in which the desecration took place to bring charges again this professor. That he hasn’t tells me he wants to avoid any more publicity for the professor and to keep another desecration from taking place. And that is his primary concern, and rightly so. It doesn’t mean, however that a hate crime did not take place–it just means the bishop (I’m assuming, with good reason for my assumption) doesn’t believe it is worth pursuing.

 

[GailMac]

Veronica - YOU GO GIRLFRIEND!!!

Peace,

Gail

P.S. Might check out the link too, but I’m in PA so I don’t think they’d respond the same way to me in the matter of taxes.

 

[Digitonomy]

Another thought I had is that this consecrated host was stolen from Mass.

We don’t know that. If we did, things would be a little more clear-cut.

 

[Digitonomy]

And if the hosts are consecrated they belong to the Church. All consecrated hosts belong to every Catholic parish no matter where it is consecrated because the Church isn’t just a local entity but a world-wide one that makes that claim.

We are not discussing schismatic churches here but the Catholic Church and a Catholic parish and a Catholic diocese.

I think we’re still having a disconnect here. I’m discussing whether a hate crime has been committed. You’re still discussing “the Catholic Church’s understanding of what is under it’s jurisdiction”.

I don’t think a court is going to care much for your claims that the Church is one big happy family, where everyone owns every host. Especially since in recent years, the Church in the US has made it quite clear that under American law each diocese is a separate legal person. Is there joint ownership of some property? Probably, but that would be the exception rather than the rule. Would you also claim that each tabernacle is also jointly owned by every diocese? Each altar? Each pew bench?

Since we don’t know whether this host came from the local SSPV chapel, the law can’t assume that the local diocese owns the host. It also may have come from a country where property law is more clear that once received, a host is the property of the communicant.

Della:

And it would be up to the bishop of the diocese in which the desecration took place to bring charges again this professor.

“And what charges do you allege, your excellency?”

Della:

And I still believe that to be true. The motive of PCism can’t be proven, unfortunately, but from the evidence put before us, I strongly believe this is the case.

If you start with the assumption that calling Muhammad names or desecrating a statue of Buddha are by themselves hate crimes, you’re likely to be disappointed by the local authorities’ response to this event.

 

[masondoggy]

I don’t know if this was the “right” response someone was looking for, but I sent e-mails to the President and Chancellor’s offices stating that being a student at a school, my concern was for the Christian students attending the University. I said that since Mr. Myers has demonstrated his obvious disdain for all things Christian, how can the University guarantee that his disdain will not effect his objectivity in instructing and grading those students in his classes who are Christian? That to me, is very key as a student. I don’t want to sign into a class where I know the Professor has an pre-conceived hatred for me because of my religious affiliation. Maintaining an objective response to the students ensures that grading will be fair.

No student wants to be in a classroom with a bigot especially if that bigot is open about it. How do you think things were and sadly still are in some places, for the black students in predominately white schools? This is really no different. I feel that this is an effective way to address Mr. Myer’s actions and hold a promise of action if persued.

Anyway, that was my response.

Peace,

Gail

I was thinking the same thing earlier. It is very unfair to the Catholic students at this university for this professor to get away with this. This is now a hostile environment for any Catholic on campus and the leaders of the univerisity have an obligation to do something about it.

 

[Marauder]

I know the University has been taking the opinion that what he does on his own time is protected by free speech. They don’t like what he is doing but it is protected. I wonder. Has he been accessing his blog from University machines on University times? If so then there might be the need for repercussions under their stated policies.

 

[Christophorus72]

I know the University has been taking the opinion that what he does on his own time is protected by free speech. They don’t like what he is doing but it is protected. I wonder. Has he been accessing his blog from University machines on University times? If so then there might be the need for repercussions under their stated policies.

since it is a state funded university, I’m wondering if his web access information is available to the public?

 

[Della]

I think we’re still having a disconnect here. I’m discussing whether a hate crime has been committed. You’re still discussing “the Catholic Church’s understanding of what is under it’s jurisdiction”.

I don’t think a court is going to care much for your claims that the Church is one big happy family, where everyone owns every host. Especially since in recent years, the Church in the US has made it quite clear that under American law each diocese is a separate legal person. Is there joint ownership of some property? Probably, but that would be the exception rather than the rule. Would you also claim that each tabernacle is also jointly owned by every diocese? Each altar? Each pew bench?

Since we don’t know whether this host came from the local SSPV chapel, the law can’t assume that the local diocese owns the host. It also may have come from a country where property law is more clear that once received, a host is the property of the communicant."And what charges do you allege, your excellency?"If you start with the assumption that calling Muhammad names or desecrating a statue of Buddha are by themselves hate crimes, you’re likely to be disappointed by the local authorities’ response to this event.

It’s pointless to discuss this with you since you simply will not acknowledge when I have answered you…and answered you…and answered you on the same points over and over again. So be it.

 

[mangy_dog]

I think he is possesed.
(sorry not really the time to joke.)

No really, I am DISGUSTED and DEPRESSED that someone would do something like this. We will have to say many rosaries and make many hours in front of the B.S.

I truly think you have said it correctly. He is possessed - and it isn’t a joke. Of course he probably would think its a joke.

Excorcisms from a distance have been done without much success by Popes in the past. For Lenin, Hitler and others. I don’t know if a prayer of deliverance (at distance) would be effective given the amount of catholics that have been emotionally affected by this desecration.

I’m sure the the repercussions of this “act” will manifest themselves sooner or later in his life…hopefully sooner than later.

May God forgive him. I forgive him.

 

[Teelynn]

I truly think you have said it correctly. He is possessed - and it isn’t a joke. Of course he probably would think its a joke.

Excorcisms from a distance have been done without much success by Popes in the past. For Lenin, Hitler and others. I don’t know if a prayer of deliverance (at distance) would be effective given the amount of catholics that have been emotionally affected by this desecration.

I’m sure the the repercussions of this “act” will manifest themselves sooner or later in his life…hopefully sooner than later.

May God forgive him. I forgive him.

I do too…as I think a lot of us forgive him (sorry, I shouldn’t speak for anyone but ) He himself, I am afraid, has to want to be forgiven…it will take Divine Intervention. Not that that won’t happen…just pray.

 

[gentlefaith]

My friend has been following the story concerning the Minnesota professor who desecrated a Eucharist and posted the desecration on a blog within the last few days. The attached article discusses this desecration, and within the article there is a request to fast and spend an hour of adoration on August 1, the feast of St. Alphonsus Liguori, in reparation for the outrageous offense against the Eucharist. Since the first weekend adoration starts tomorrow, August 1, I am sharing the article with you on the chance that you might be able to participate in this prayer request. Although not mentioned in the article, I believe that praying for the professor is very appropriate too.
zenit.org/rssenglish-23381

 

[mommyof4]

My friend has been following the story concerning the Minnesota professor who desecrated a Eucharist and posted the desecration on a blog within the last few days. The attached article discusses this desecration, and within the article there is a request to fast and spend an hour of adoration on August 1, the feast of St. Alphonsus Liguori, in reparation for the outrageous offense against the Eucharist. Since the first weekend adoration starts tomorrow, August 1, I am sharing the article with you on the chance that you might be able to participate in this prayer request. Although not mentioned in the article, I believe that praying for the professor is very appropriate too.
zenit.org/rssenglish-23381

This is a good idea.

 

[Biblioassistant]

I am going to pray for him every day in the month of August, and spend an hour of reparation every Saturday, and offer my communions in reparation too.

It still galls me that the college treats this is a free speech issue. I know they wouldn’t do so if he had: burned a cross on a Black family’s lawn, pained a swastika on a synagogue or thrown a koran into a toilet.

 

[Teelynn]

My friend has been following the story concerning the Minnesota professor who desecrated a Eucharist and posted the desecration on a blog within the last few days. The attached article discusses this desecration, and within the article there is a request to fast and spend an hour of adoration on August 1, the feast of St. Alphonsus Liguori, in reparation for the outrageous offense against the Eucharist. Since the first weekend adoration starts tomorrow, August 1, I am sharing the article with you on the chance that you might be able to participate in this prayer request. Although not mentioned in the article, I believe that praying for the professor is very appropriate too.
zenit.org/rssenglish-23381

We usually have adoration on Thursdays. I went yesterday (close enough I figured) and spent time with Our Lord for him also offering a Chaplet of Divine Mercy… for him and his fans…if we storm heaven the Lord will answer according to His will. Regardless, we need to offer what we can to comfort Our Lord in these atrocities.

 

[Teelynn]

FOR THOSE INTERESTED:

EWTN WILL HAVE A SPECIAL SEGMENT ON THE LATEST EUCHARISTIC DESECRATION. BILL DONAHUE OF THE CATHOLIC LEAGUE WILL BE INTERVIEWED BY RAYMOND ARROYO (SP?) ON “THE WORLD OVER”.

TONIGHT: (FRI) 8:00 EASTERN TIME
SAT. 1:30 PM ET
SUN. 4:00 PM ET
MON. 10:00 AM ET & 11:00 PM ET

JUST THOUGHT I’D THROW THIS OUT THERE FOR THOSE THAT MIGHT BE INTERESTED.

P.S. HOPE THIS IS THE CORRECT THREAD FOR THIS, THOUGHT IT BETTER THAN TO START A NEW ONE JUST FOR THIS

 

[liberational]

If not one person in the RCC had paid attention to this glory hound…he would have gone away immediately and received zero attention.

This guy is getting exactly what he wants and now EWTN is going to hold TV specials on this guy…giving him even more exposure!

 

[Teelynn]

If not one person in the RCC had paid attention to this glory hound…he would have gone away immediately and received zero attention.

This guy is getting exactly what he wants and now EWTN is going to hold TV specials on this guy…giving him even more exposure!

Very valid point…this in and of itself is very controversial, however… You have the camp that says if you give it any attention, it will dissapear pronto…you have the other camp saying, that he himself put it out there for the world to see…and copy cats following…if you have no exposure it is like an out of control flood with no sandbagging.

I understand each line of thinking…kind of like between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Della]

If not one person in the RCC had paid attention to this glory hound…he would have gone away immediately and received zero attention.

You might be right about this, especially those who weren’t “Christian” in their emails. People like him only get off on being told he’s evil, etc., sad to say.

This guy is getting exactly what he wants and now EWTN is going to hold TV specials on this guy…giving him even more exposure!

Well, I think it’s a good thing this issue be openly discussed–not necessarily to give this guy any more attention, but so we can promote better ways of handling such situations. Besides, EWTN isn’t CNN. Most people who watch are Catholics and others of the Christian faith. I doubt he’ll even know such a program is being broadcast, unless he’s invited to participate or someone tells him about it. We’ll see if it results in any more desecrations or other outrages–please God it won’t.

 

[anon52328184]

teelyn,

thanks for the info. i like raymond arroyo. it will be interesting to see how bill donahue handles the interview and questions. i hope he will hold his composure and not fly off the handle as he is known to do! lol

 

[beckycmarie]

Today, I saw some excellent food for thought regarding desecration from a priest on this blog.