Despair in Catholicism

[CRV]

Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace,

True. The first movement towards us is His. Think of the prodigal son - the father is waiting and watching for his son, before the son goes to his father in repentance.

no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification,

We can’t do anything by ourselves. All good comes from God.

at the beginning of conversion

So whether that be Baptism (adult convert or parents desiring the Sacrament on behalf of their child), or after the committing of a mortal sin (it is God who inspires our repentance and desire for forgiveness etc)

Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.“

Through prayer - asking God for the graces needed for ourselves and others to increase in holiness by the increase of grace and charity towards others - which includes prayer as well as physical good works.

2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. the saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.

 

[Dovekin]

So in a sense, Rome does believe in salvation by grace alone as long as they mean that grace is what enables us to do good works and thus merit eternal life, but knowing that those good works are not our own but God who worked it in us. Am I right in that?

It was an excellent summary up to this point, and still good with this sentence.

Salvation comes from God alone, a free gift.

Salvation is not a jewel you put in a vault to protect. Rather salvation impels you to do good works so others may see and give glory to God. If you are not doing what is good, your faith is in vain. They come out of our salvation because we have been joined with Christ in the Church. We do not merit heaven because it is God who is the source of what is good in our life.

That is my understanding of the joint agreement between Catholics and Lutherans 20 years ago. This is not really an issue that divides Protestants from Catholics anymore, though you may still find people enmeshed in contentious formulas on both sides.

Everything is from God and we thank God continually for all we are given.

 

[PennyinCanada]

The wonderful thing about the sacrament of penance is that you hear the words from the priest ‘you are forgiven all your sins’. A protestant never gets to hear this or have the comfort of hearing them.

God knows we are weak, and that we are trying. He’s not a ‘Gotcha!!’ kind of God. He’s there to pull us close and hold us.

 

[Dan_Defender]

Unfortunately Protestants do not have the sacrament of Reconciliation and many times they misunderstand the concept of perfect contrition. When a Catholic reaches a state of grace, inner peace from God follows.

 

[Jen7]

To be honest, I’m much more at peace noting my own sins and being able to confess them and receive assurance of forgiveness… than I would be wondering if my prayer to receive Jesus as my Lord & Savior has authentically been “sincere.” I don’t know how Protestants avoid questioningtheir own sincerity daily. I know I would. “Sincereity” seems so much like a feeling. In confession it’s much more cut and dry - confess sins; receive the words of God’s forgiveness; promise to try to do better; re-confess sins if/when needed. I tend toward scrupulosity & have to be realistic about what sins I did (and didn’t!) do… butI still think it’s possible to have a whole lot more objectivity about concrete sin than it is to have objectivity about the “sincerity in my heart” while praying the sinner’s prayer. I’d be interested to know the OP’s thoughts here.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’m worried that if I become Catholic I will end up in mild despair thinking I won’t be saved.

That’s interesting, because I’ve heard other Protestants who said they themselves worried all the time about being saved and that they think Catholics have more certainty because Catholics can go to confession and be absolved of sins.

I mean, if I commit just one mortal sin I’m done unless I do Penance

Most of us who are seriously trying to live a holy life don’t commit mortal sins very often, if at all. To be free of mortal sin, we don’t “do Penance” - we go to confession where we confess our sin, repent of our sin, and receive absolution.

but how can that bring peace? It seems burdensome and hurtful to people like me. By that I mean that I tend to be scrupulous and sensitive at times when it comes to sin.

Scruples is a mental disorder not unlike OCD. If you have scruples, then you would need to work with a regular confessor and learn to avoid scrupulous thinking. There are also some Catholic support groups/ resources for people with scruples.
Most Catholics don’t suffer from scruples, so they don’t see confession as burdensome the way you do.

At times I fear I’ve committed sin when I haven’t and I worry about it.

That’s because you have scruples, which, again, is a mental / thought disorder similar to OCD. Scruples can be controlled.

But essentially, how can Roman Catholics live one day of peace when one day you can be a child of God and the next day a child of Satan simply for the commission of one mortal sin.

We don’t believe that people turn into “children of Satan” for committing a mortal sin. If you commit a mortal sin, then you go confess it, get absolved of it, and make a sincere effort to not fall into mortal sin again.

Don’t we all sin?

Sure, the just man sins 7 times a day…but many if not most of us don’t sin mortally very often, or at all. Mortal sin requires that the sinful act be grave matter, and be committed with full knowledge of the sinful action and its gravity, and the sinner must deliberately consent to the mortal sin. Often, one or more of these elements is missing, so sin isn’t mortal. It’s just ordinary venial sin.

(continued next post due to length limit)

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Don’t we all lust, have prideful thoughts, covet, etc?

Some people do and some don’t. I can tell you when I was young I had lust like most young people, but now I’m several decades older and I rarely feel lust because I have other priorities and my hormones aren’t going nuts. As for prideful thoughts and coveting, I try to put those right out of my mind before they become a serious sin.
Every little sinful thought you think isn’t a mortal sin. Your scruples likely affect your judgment of what’s a mortal sin and what isn’t.

Finally, Catholics learn to trust in God and his mercy. If we do the best we can to live a good life and keep God’s commandments and obey the precepts of the Church, he’ll likely be kind and merciful to us. We are discouraged from worrying because worry doesn’t change anything and it just gets in the way of a relationship with God. We are encouraged to pray, hope, and not worry.

If you became a Catholic you would likely need to get some help for your scruples and then a lot of these problems you’re going on about would diminish as your scrupulosit problem diminished.

 

[po18guy]

DO NOT:

1. Listen to Catholics - necessarily.
2. Think that we go around worrying about hell.
3. Think that the loss of salvation/hell/damnation questions here represent the average Catholic. A much higher percentage of anxious and scrupulous are on the web - much more than in your local parish.

DO:

1. Read about what the Church teaches.
2. Read the lives of the Saints.
3. Study the Sacraments.
4. Know that we are “saved by hope” Romans 8:24
5. Go before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament - it only looks like bread. He said it is His Body - we believe that wholeheartedly. Miracles occur there, many of us can attest to that.
6. Investigate Catholicism and not Catholics! There aare 1.2 billion reasons not to be Catholic.
7. There is only one reason to be Catholic:

Jesus Christ, fully present, Body, Blood, Soul and divinity. The source and summit - focus on this: the source and summit - of our faith, our hope and out love.

Word!

Peace out.

 

[whichwaytogo47]

the polar opposite in Protestantism. They’re so certain of being saved they commit all manner of sin because they don’t

Wouldn’t they theoretically at least not been saved in the 1st place? Isn’t this a heart issue?

 

[BrandtWall]

“This is an honest question as someone who sincerely wants to know the answer. If I sound like a bigot forgive me it’s not how I want to sound like. I’m worried that if I become Catholic I will end up in mild despair thinking I won’t be saved. I mean, if I commit just one mortal sin I’m done unless I do Penance but how can that bring peace? It seems burdensome and hurtful to people like me. By that I mean that I tend to be scrupulous and sensitive at times when it comes to sin. At times I fear I’ve committed sin when I haven’t and I worry about it.”

Blockquote

I have to ask, are you implying that you’re suspecting Catholicism is true Christianity but are afraid of living up to the challenge of what that would mean? Just curious.

 

[Alainval]

Thank you for taking the time to write all that. Please pray for me to find the truth because another reason I’m hesitant to convert to Catholicism is because the Reformed and Lutheran traditions (of which I’m a part of) tend to put negative things of Catholicism in my mind. I’ve also been worried that if I become Catholic I will prove to be a false convert according to Puritan and Reformed thought and thus damn myself. Because of that I have inward conflicts and worries about what is the truth and it’s just a big mess.

 

[Alainval]

I’m still not completely sure. The best I can say is it could be true. I’m worried and hesitant about becoming Catholic because I fear that my Protestant traditions (Lutheran and Reformed) would condemn me and pretty much damn me to hell. I’m also afraid I could be wrong if I convert. It’s pretty much on fear and uncertainty.

 

[whichwaytogo47]

I have to ask, are you implying that you’re suspecting Catholicism is true Christianity but are afraid of living up to the challenge of what that would mean? Just curious.

I’d say Protestantism is true Christianity as Christianity means you’re a Christ follower. Being a sincere Protestant is less dangerous of a place to be than an insincere Catholic. It only takes ONE mortal sin for either a Catholic or a Protestant to have the potential / aka danger of going to Hell, but a repentant heart in either case saves you because of Jesus’s death on the cross. Catholics have access to the Eucharist (body, blood, soul & divinity) and absolution in confession, something Protestants cannot access. But King David is a prime example of how someone who’s sincere in their contrition can be saved regardless. Catholics call this perfect contrition. It would be great if more priests would do instructional masses so that people could better decipher how the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth.

That said, the Catholic Church is the church founded by Christ. You have the sacraments to guide and help you thru your journey. Both Catholics and Protestants have baptism and believe you’re saved by grace. But Catholics have the sacraments and 73 books, while Protestants have 66 books and baptism.

 

[GiftofMercy]

We are saved by God’s grace who through His power and working infuses righteousness into us leading to salvation?

We cannot save ourselves. Only God can save us. We are called to live a good and just and upright life, within the precepts of the Catholic Church. And you will learn these through RCIA. At the end of the day we cannot save ourselves. The grace of God saves us and the mercy of God.

But we are called to live our christian life. We are called to love of neighbour because we love God. This is where works comes in. What does the neighbour need, what can you provide, is it prayer then pray. Is it comfort, then comfort, is it water, then give water.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

It’s impossible for anyone to keep the 10 commandments.

Without His grace, yes.

“…for without Me you can do nothing.” (John)

But remember:

“I can do all things in Him who strengthens me.” (Philippians 4: 13)

 

[Margaret_Ann]

I will pm you for my story. I suffered from scruples too but it’s like the common cold - you can get rid of it but it may come back if you don’t keep healthy (spiritually & physically).

More later. Good night!

 

[Alainval]

Doesn’t the Council of Trent also say that even our good works are from God? “Thus, neither is our own justice established as our own as from ourselves; nor is the justice of God ignored or repudiated: for that justice which is called ours, because that we are justified from its being inherent in us, that same is (the justice) of God, because that it is infused into us of God, through the merit of Christ.”

 

[steve-b]

Hey everyone, I’m currently a Protestant but I was looking into the theology of Roman Catholicism and I just need to know how Roman Catholics can live at peace. This is an honest question as someone who sincerely wants to know the answer. If I sound like a bigot forgive me it’s not how I want to sound like. I’m worried that if I become Catholic I will end up in mild despair thinking I won’t be saved. I mean, if I commit just one mortal sin I’m done unless I do Penance but how can that bring peace? It seems burdensome and hurtful to people like me. By that I mean that I tend to be scrupulous and sensitive at times when it comes to sin. At times I fear I’ve committed sin when I haven’t and I worry about it. But essentially, how can Roman Catholics live one day of peace when one day you can be a child of God and the next day a child of Satan simply for the commission of one mortal sin. Don’t we all sin? Don’t we all lust, have prideful thoughts, covet, etc? How can a poor tormented conscience find peace in that? Thank you for bearing with me and reading this.

good questions

Hopefully this will help

Re: Mortal Sin

The Catholic Church didn’t invent mortal sin nor its consequences. Mortal sin is in scripture and its consequences.

Where?

grave sin = mortal sin

and

Here

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

We are ‘done’ unless we repent of this sin, make an act of perfect contrition and go to the sacrament of confession/penance. Doing penance for that sin is separate to the forgiveness of that sin. We’re only ‘done’ if we refuse to repent of any mortal sin committed.

Perfect contrition is not required unless one dies before going to confession. All that is necessary is attrition. Fear of the loss of Heaven or the pains of hell is all one needs to be forgiven via the Sacrament of Penance.

 

[englands123]

Totally agree with you , that’s why he gave us the 10 commandments.

Only someone pure like Jesus could keep the whole 10.

Even Murders who have repented are in heaven… Jesus told us this.