Details of suspect in Ariz rampage slowly emerge

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gilliam said:
Ummm…

The friends’ comments paint a picture bolstered by other former classmates and Loughner’s own Internet postings: that of a social outcast with nihilistic, almost indecipherable beliefs steeped in mistrust and paranoia…

Mistrust of government was Loughner’s defining conviction, the friends said. He believed the U.S. government was behind 9/11, and worried that governments were maneuvering to create a unified monetary system (“a New World Order currency” one friend said) so that social elites and bureaucrats could control the rest of the world…

Over time, Loughner became increasingly introspective — what one of the friends described as a “nihilistic rut.”

An ardent atheist, he began to characterize people as sheep whose free will was being sapped by the government and the monotony of modern life…

“He appeared to be to me an emotional cripple or an emotional child,” Coorough said.
“He lacked compassion, he lacked understanding and he lacked an ability to connect.”

google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gutbUc8KWEv3iMUewPN445D4uSYw?docId=c09a07a17e1b4aaa82815779cbf6f758
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That “sheep” Comment reminds me of the people who go to the AboveTopSecret or Godlike Productions WebSites.

Every other thread there is all about how most Americans and People in the World are “Blind Sheep” who Mindlessly accept everything the Powers That Be feed them.:rolleyes:

I use to go to those sites a lot back in the day, believe it or not. 🤷
There’s also a lot of Atheists there who love to Bash Religion as “Fairy Tales” and “Illogical Fallacies.”😛

So I would not be surprised if Loughner MAY have been a Regular Perusor of those Sites.

Just a Thought. 👍👍
 
For the last 24 hours, the Web has been alive with speculation that the Arizona shooter has some sort of ties to a right-wing group called American Renaissance. The primary source for this claim is a Fox News report from yesterday saying that law enforcement had made this determination based on information provided by the Department of Homeland Security.

But a DHS official tells me that the department has not established any such possibility, undercutting what appears to be the primary basis for this claim.

voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/dhs_has_not_determined_possibl.html
 
For the last 24 hours, the Web has been alive with speculation that the Arizona shooter has some sort of ties to a right-wing group called American Renaissance. The primary source for this claim is a Fox News report from yesterday saying that law enforcement had made this determination based on information provided by the Department of Homeland Security.

But a DHS official tells me that the department has not established any such possibility, undercutting what appears to be the primary basis for this claim.

voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/dhs_has_not_determined_possibl.html
 
gilliam said:
This is an excellent article and gives a lot of background information from someone who knew him well.

Loughner Friend Explains Alleged Gunman’s Grudge Against Giffords
motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1#
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Thanks Gilliam for your excellent reporting on this! 👍

It’s a real stretch to blame anyone (Palin, Beck, Tea Party, etc) but Loughner himself for this. From this article, he probably would’ve done this had there been no Tea Party.
 
Cat_Herder said:
According to Fox News, it also appears that he was a drug abuser and had connections to an anti-Semitic, “white nationalist” group.

Meanwhile there is a piece at the Catholic Phoenix discussing Judge Roll, who lost his life in the massacre. Please pray for his repose and for those others who lost their lives in this senseless and disgusting violence, as well as all affected families.
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From what I have learned is that this man has no real political ideology. For example, you cannot support both The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf. Most likely he put those books down, so that people would think he was a non-conformist. National Socialism and Communism are mortal enemies. It’s like supporting both sides of a war.

Secondly, the group that he is supposedly tied to is American Renaissance. This group has denied the tie, condemned the shooting and is not an anti-semitic group. The group has jewish speakers and they had a Hasidic Rabbi speak.

Thirdly, Loughner’s mom was jewish, meaning by maternal line, he is also a Jew. THerefore, unless he is self-hating, he is not an anti-semite m.motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1

So this is not an anti-semitic Neo-Nazi attack. One he supports the Communist Manifesto, second he is jewish.

My money is that this guy was mentally ill. (Untreated Schizophrenia, perhaps?)
 
Not_Sure said:
Secondly, the group that he is supposedly tied to is American Renaissance. This group has denied the tie, condemned the shooting and is not an anti-semitic group. The group has jewish speakers and they had a Hasidic Rabbi speak.
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The DHS now says there is not an established tie between the shooter and the American Renaissance group. See:
voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/dhs_has_not_determined_possibl.html

Much of what was speculated about the shooter on Saturday is not correct. We are just starting to get a clearer picture about him.
 
gilliam said:
The DHS now says there is not an established tie between the shooter and the American Renaissance group. See:
voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/dhs_has_not_determined_possibl.html

Much of what was speculated about the shooter on Saturday is not correct. We are just starting to get a clearer picture about him.
Click to expand...
Like a lot of these shooters, I many of them had deep seated mental illnesses. I’d bet anyone a dounut that this is probably the case here. It may not have any connection to any political action group.
 
Not_Sure said:
From what I have learned is that this man has no real political ideology. For example, you cannot support both The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf. Most likely he put those books down, so that people would think he was a non-conformist. National Socialism and Communism are mortal enemies. It’s like supporting both sides of a war.

Secondly, the group that he is supposedly tied to is American Renaissance. This group has denied the tie, condemned the shooting and is not an anti-semitic group. The group has jewish speakers and they had a Hasidic Rabbi speak.
Click to expand...
Indeed it is looking less like politics and more like old fashioned unveiled evil. An occult altar was found in his backyard.
 
gnjsdad said:
Thanks Gilliam for your excellent reporting on this! 👍

It’s a real stretch to blame anyone (Palin, Beck, Tea Party, etc) but Loughner himself for this. From this article, he probably would’ve done this had there been no Tea Party.
Click to expand...
The picture that emerges is not even a schitophrenic but a nihilist who doesn;t even believe in language. Hs rejection of logic and meaning was not a result of physioloical
defect y but of choice, of a postmodernist rejection of language. and meaning

He chooses death for the sheer hell of the choice, and to indulge in the cult of fame.
Rhe nihilist assassins of the modern era at least operated from a warped sense of morality, and directed death toward power that he considered evil. The post modernist is devoid of meaning and death itself is his answer, There is no reason for his assasination target, but it is the depraved thrill of the schock of random death that is all that there is left for a mind that rejects the possibility of meaning in this world,
 
I’m just trying to pray for all the victims; and for the shooter to repent. It is times like these that I am reminded that Jesus told us to pray for those who spitefully use us-- and how hard that is to do.
 
Darryl1958 said:
The picture that emerges is not even a schitophrenic but a nihilist who doesn;t even believe in language. Hs rejection of logic and meaning was not a result of physioloical
defect y but of choice, of a postmodernist rejection of language. and meaning

He chooses death for the sheer hell of the choice, and to indulge in the cult of fame.
Rhe nihilist assassins of the modern era at least operated from a warped sense of morality, and directed death toward power that he considered evil. The post modernist is devoid of meaning and death itself is his answer, There is no reason for his assasination target, but it is the depraved thrill of the schock of random death that is all that there is left for a mind that rejects the possibility of meaning in this world,
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He is really disturbing. That smiling mug shot … ugh… just gives me the creeps.

From what I have heard (Not that I am any expert on mental illness) is he shows classic signs of paranoid schziphrenia. I guess that illness develops in early 20’s.
Those who have that illness write long rantings on things that make no sense… well, only to them. They can have delusions in their head that they dont know arent real.

What a tragic day Saturday was.

But, what always appears after American tragedies are stories of great courage and love.
Tucson had their share of those wonderful people.

God bless all involved in this horrific event.
 
didymus said:
Please. He was just plain screwed up & didn’t have anything rational enough to even qualify as an ideology.

Unfortunately, those with an axe to grind can pick what they want from his video, MySpace, or people who know to tryto stuff him into whatever they want.
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👍 EXACTLY!!!
 
ComputerGeek25 said:
Like a lot of these shooters, I many of them had deep seated mental illnesses. I’d bet anyone a dounut that this is probably the case here. It may not have any connection to any political action group.
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You’re correct. I’m a political independent (a dying breed) & I don’t remember a blame game of this intensity,** ever **happening. Not when John Kennedy was assasinated, nor Bobby Kennedy, nor Martin Luther King.

From Rush Limbaugh to a student with a pink wig, who was interviewed & appeared on last nights news, & claims to know the shooter, everyone has an opinion of him & why it happened. Most are blaming someone or some organization for this man’s actions. Sarah Palin (whom I consider to be a loose canon) is being blamed, different organizations are being blamed, etc., etc. While I do agree that political rhetoric has become vitriolic & am hoping this shooting will make some “cool it”, I also believe that this man is mentally ill & was simply a time bomb waiting to go off at SOMETHING, anything.

According to the only friend that’s been allowed to enter his parents home, they are devastated, can’t stop crying, the wife is in bed & they’re considering taking her to the hospital, the family whose daughter was killed are suffering pain that I can’t even comprehend & they’ll carry it with them for the rest of their lives.

The man that shot them appears to be mentally compromised, the congresswoman may never completely recover, her family is suffering immensely & the media is hounding all of them.

It’s natural for human beings to want to know “why” when something this horrible happens, but the truth is…we may never get those answers & the speculation that’s being broadcast as news, is doing much harm. IMO. the media is making this a “three-ring circus”. Let’s react to that with prayer. Prayer for the victims, prayer for their families, prayer for the shooter & his family.
 
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