Detroit's pacifist bishop resigns-Pope to announce the move today

[frommi]

msproule:

Me too. But to which part of “this” are you referring?

Is your confusion about why people are so interested in his retirement?

Or, perhaps it is because of the drama that arose out of this drawn out process (abbreviated below):

1. 
   *]Suggesting to news media that he might not offer his letter of recommendation on time because it would get accepted with much haste.
   *]Quietly petition Vatican for permission to delay retirement and continue service as Auxiliary Bishop.
   *]Announce 60 year-old abuse claim while promoting removal of statutes of limitation for abuse victims.
   *]Announcing submission of retirement papers.
   *]Hasty acceptance of retirement request (as predicted in 1).
   
   I think that the second possibility has much to do with the first. He himself made a spectacle out of this normal event.

1. 
   I just mean that it means…nothing substantial.
   
   It would be one thing if he was the leader of a major see that would be experiencing significant transition or something.
   
   But the man has had no real archdiocesean responsibilities for years (at his request btw).
   
   So aside from becoming an ‘auxiliary bishop emeritus’, what exactly changes here?

 

[Detroit_Sue]

frommi:

But the man has had no real archdiocesean responsibilities for years (at his request btw).

Yeah, so he could galavant all over the world & the the terrorist countries how terrible the United States is.

 

[felra]

frommi:

I just mean that it means…nothing substantial.

It would be one thing if he was the leader of a major see that would be experiencing significant transition or something.

But the man has had no real archdiocesean responsibilities for years (at his request btw).

So aside from becoming an ‘auxiliary bishop emeritus’, what exactly changes here?

The “man”, this designated Bishop of the flock, has been, is, and will continue to be a rally point for heterodoxy in the Archdiocese of Detroit and a darling figurehead endorsement of heterodox/dissident organizations who claim the name Catholic. This is substantial and nothing to wink at or minimize how forces who actively oppose orthodoxy will capitalize on.

DETROIT, Illinois, January 26, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Auxiliary Bishop Thomas Gumbleton, who is known as an activist for homosexuality in the Church, has handed in his resignation to the Vatican. Pope Benedict XVI is expected to announce the resignation today.

Bishop Gumbleton has spent his years of spiritual authority in the Catholic Church working to promote the homosexual lifestyle. He is affiliated with numerous gay activist organizations such as the Triangle Foundation, the Rainbow Sash Movement, and New Ways Ministry, SHARE, and Call to Action. In 1995 he received the Call to Action leadership award.

He has been a prolific speaker and writer on the subject of homosexual acceptance in the Church, openly challenging the Church’s teaching that homosexual activity is “intrinsically disordered.”

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/jan/06012602.html

"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.” 2 Timothy 4:1-4

 

[frommi]

felra:

The “man”, this designated Bishop of the flock, has been, is, and will continue to be a rally point for heterodoxy in the Archdiocese of Detroit and a darling figurehead endorsement of heterodox/dissident organizations who claim the name Catholic. This is substantial and nothing to wink at or minimize how forces who actively oppose orthodoxy will capitalize on.

“Accumulate teachings to their own likings”? Sounds like the Lefebrveists, or the Tridentine folks…I could go on and on…

But…again as you said “has been, is, and will CONTINUE to be”.

So I ask again…what is CHANGING as a result of this retirement?

 

[felra]

“Accumulate teachings to their own likings”? Sounds like the Lefebrveists, or the Tridentine folks…I could go on and on…

Your point?

But…again as you said “has been, is, and will CONTINUE to be”.

So I ask again…what is CHANGING as a result of this retirement?

I have stated my contention based on documented track record. I guess that the folks who have had to deal with the distraction, annoyance, stress, and/or felt the dissapointment, hurt and pain of the ripple effects of this shepherd’s heterodoxy, a more assertive response to the meaning of his resignation is in order.

 

[Libero]

I have stated my contention based on documented track record. I guess that the folks who have had to deal with the distraction, annoyance, stress, and/or felt the dissapointment, hurt and pain of the ripple effects of this shepherd’s heterodoxy, a more assertive response to the meaning of his resignation is in order.

Pain, ripple effects. Do you not think that such comments are perhaps exaggerating what this bishop has done?

 

[felra]

Libero:

Pain, ripple effects. Do you not think that such comments are perhaps exaggerating what this bishop has done?

Is the minimization wagon getting overloaded yet?

Actually one soul led to perdition is one too many. Would you not agree?

 

[Libero]

Is the minimization wagon getting overloaded yet?

Actually one soul led to perdition is one too many. Would you not agree?

That wagon collapsed years ago.

It would probably be best for me not to discuss perdition (it’s not nice when I and perdition lock horns)

I would say that the bishop gives people hope, makes them realise the love of God, when it is because of the Church (and particular representatives of the faith) that they no longer feel such love; this constitutes what can only be interpreted as a good deed.

 

[frommi]

felra:

Is the minimization wagon getting overloaded yet?

Actually one soul led to perdition is one too many. Would you not agree?

If anything, the maximization and lack of context on many complaints about this bishop are minimilizing his efforts to spread the Gospel message unfettered by fear of resentment.

 

[msproule]

frommi:

So I ask again…what is CHANGING as a result of this retirement?

What is the point of your question? None of us know what (other than title) will change as a result of this.

So, looking back at the events of the last year, one might wonder why an Auxiliary Bishop, who by choice has had “no real Archdiocesean responsibilities for years”, would seek to defer the surrender of his functional appointment.

 

[frommi]

msproule:

What is the point of your question? None of us know what (other than title) will change as a result of this.

So, looking back at the events of the last year, one might wonder why an Auxiliary Bishop, who by choice has had “no real Archdiocesean responsibilities for years”, would seek to defer the surrender of his functional appointment.

Perhaps he was simply pointing out the arbitray nature of these resignations.

It really doesn’t make sense that some bishops get to defer until they are 80…and some don’t.

It doesn’t make sense that the Pope serves until death because he is a spiritual father, and fathers don’t retire…but his brother bishops have to retire?!?

I’m simply astounded at the glee some people take in events like this.

I can guarantee you that when Fabian Bruskewitz retires, I’m not going to be uncorking champagne and smiling on my train ride, regardless of my opinions of his shepherding skills.

 

[felra]

frommi:

If anything, the maximization and lack of context on many complaints about this bishop are minimilizing his efforts to spread the Gospel message unfettered by fear of resentment.

Originally Posted by felra
I agree to reserve judgment, and that by their fruits you will know them. From the first of 275 entries under www.google.com search words: bishop gumbleton dissident.

It is the documented evidence of his lack of and divergence from spreading the *full *Gospel message.

 

[frommi]

felra:

It is the documented evidence of his lack of and divergence from spreading the *full *Gospel message.

Be careful, because arguments could be made that many a holy man fails at spreading the *full *Gospel message.

 

[felra]

frommi:

Be careful, because arguments could be made that many a holy man fails at spreading the *full *Gospel message.

Can you please give me a few names of these holy men and I will do my heterodox/dissident google search?

 

[EtienneGilson]

felra:

Can you please give me a few names of these holy men and I will do my heterodox/dissident google search?

I, and many in the media have noted that Pope Benedict XVI, since beco,ing pope has not mentioned one of his predecessors favorite subjects: contraception. And this is despite World Youth Day (a frequent plateform for JPII) and an encyclical dealing with love, eros and even marriage and sex.

I guess he is not spreading the ENTIRE gospel either.

Maybe Pope Benedict is one of those flaming liberal hereterodox bishops whose death or retirment will spark such bursts of joy as well.

Far well to Bishop Gumbleton and I await his successor with tacit interest. But maybe us Canadians are just another one of those “terrorist” nations.

 

[felra]

I, and many in the media have noted that Pope Benedict XVI, since beco,ing pope has not mentioned one of his predecessors favorite subjects: contraception. And this is despite World Youth Day (a frequent plateform for JPII) and an encyclical dealing with love, eros and even marriage and sex.

**I guess **he is not spreading the ENTIRE gospel either.

Maybe Pope Benedict is one of those flaming liberal hereterodox bishops whose death or retirment will spark such bursts of joy as well.

Far well to Bishop Gumbleton and I await his successor with tacit interest. But maybe us Canadians are just another one of those “terrorist” nations.

Having been shown to be incorrect on this claim and guess, I am left wondering what other “facts” or “guesses” that you present will turn out to be baseless conjecture? …
**
**

****Pope rejects condoms for Africa ****

**The spread of HIV and Aids in Africa should be tackled through fidelity and abstinence and not by condoms, Pope Benedict XVI has said. **

The Pope warned that contraception was one of a host of trends contributing to a “breakdown in sexual morality”, and church teachings should not be ignored.

“It is of great concern that the fabric of African life, its very source of hope and stability, is threatened by divorce, abortion, prostitution, human trafficking and a contraception mentality,” he added.

These were his first public comments on the issue of Aids/HIV and contraception since taking office.

“It is of great concern that the fabric of African life, its very source of hope and stability, is threatened by divorce, abortion, prostitution, human trafficking and a contraception mentality,” he added.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4081276.stm

 

[WanderAimlessly]

It is finally official:

Detroit Auxiliary Bishop Gumbleton Retires

DETROIT, Michigan, FEB. 2, 2006 (Zenit.org).- Benedict XVI has accepted the resignation of Auxiliary Bishop Thomas Gumbleton, 76, of Detroit.

Link

PF

 

[Toni]

“You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will know them by their fruits.” Matthew 7:16-20

If the fruit is good it will grow and if not it will die. So be it. I do not think it is harsh to call a spade a spade. Frommi are you involved with call to action by chance? Many of your posts make me wonder because you have even seen the google search on the destruction this bishop has caused in our diocese and you are still calling a spade a heart.

 

[Toni]

WanderAimlessly:

It is finally officialF

Thanks be to God!!

 

[Toni]

EtienneGilson:

I, and many in the media have noted that Pope Benedict XVI, since beco,ing pope has not mentioned one of his predecessors favorite subjects: contraception. And this is despite World Youth Day (a frequent plateform for JPII) and an encyclical dealing with love, eros and even marriage and sex.

I guess he is not spreading the ENTIRE gospel either.

Maybe Pope Benedict is one of those flaming liberal hereterodox bishops whose death or retirment will spark such bursts of joy as well.

Far well to Bishop Gumbleton and I await his successor with tacit interest. But maybe us Canadians are just another one of those “terrorist” nations.

:banghead: