Devotion To Our Lady Is Necessary For Salvation

[Yerusalyim]

This whole notion of “our devotion to Our Lady is necessary to salvation” is not substantiated by anything in scripture.

Typical protestant line.

It’s also not substantiated by the teaching of the magesterium of the Catholic Church.

To be Honest the two unforgivable sins I was taught as a youngster, Some saints explain it, one of which was Saint Louis de Montfort. Another source came from actual exorcisms, where demons actually were forced to admit it by God.

There is ONE unforgiveable sin…sheesh.

You do realize that just because St. Monfort believed something doesn’t make it true…right? St Peter believed the world was flat and less than 6000 years old.

 

[Gara3987]

Cafeteria Catholics - Catholics who picks and chooses what Church teachings they will hold as their belief. Disregards some teachings which does not conform to their agenda.

A.K.A. Liberal Catholics or Lukewarm Catholics.

But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. [Apoc. 3, 16]

 

[Gara3987]

You know here is something i never understood, i have a cousin who reads the bible everyday and has no idea what she is talking about God bless her, but here is an example. She fights with me because i light candles and pray to saint Jude, Joseph, And Blessed Mother to help me and my family everyday. Now she said i can pray to my dead saints everyday it wont help they are dead, then i say , well see Catholics dont believe in death we believe Jesus took it away when he died on the Cross. She says you can only pray to God i explain intercession, well im going to hell then. Then a week later she says her mom is looking down on her and helping her. Now why is her mom not dead but my Saints are. Then she says God only answers your prayers if you ask him and pray to him you dont need anyone else. he wont listen. then shes call a week later and asks me to pray for her. See what i mean? I said to her one day, think of this just for a minute do you really think that when i die and I meet God that he is going to say, oh no. You are going to Hell because you respected my Mother and Honored her. She said Yes. But shes knows that she is going to heaven, its just a shame Catholics dont believe that she said, I said another words you can break every commandment in the book but as long as you believe in God you are going to heaven. She said yes. Oh she said also you are going to hell for going to confession, we are putting a priest before God. When i ask her about Peter getting the CHurch all of that,( the gospel) shes says thats not what it means. I say okay what does it mean. She said I dont know but not that. Your Pope is just telling you that. He is brainwashing me. Go figure? I say okay who do you follow what church, she said she follows herself no Man. I said i do his name is Jesus Christ. She thinks God wants her to give her testimony and teach everyone religion. she knows this is big and going to happen to her.

You can tell her to look at these verses on praying to the saints: (Ecclus. xliv. 1), (Ecclus xlvi. 15), (Rom. xv. 30), (Job xlii. 8), (1 Cor. iv. 16). (Note that Ecclus. is Ecclesiasticus which is one of the 7 Deutero-Canonical books, erroneously called “The Apocrypha”, can only be found in Catholic Bibles).

 

[peso73]

Did I say that?

Cafeteria Catholics - Catholics who picks and chooses what Church teachings they will hold as their belief. Disregards some teachings which does not conform to their agenda.

True Christians are Marians for how can you separate Mary from Christ? We are not condemning anyone to hell…that will be a sin against charity.

But you might want to take that up with the saints, the Popes and the Doctors of the Church, as well as the Church.

No, I think you just suggested a small change in the Nicene creed.
And I know what cafeteria catholics are, and wondered if you were directing the comment at myself, and if so, for what? Not believing in something that is not true? Or if I am mistaken, show me some concrete church teaching (not an individual members opinion, something from the magsterium please…) that says if we do not have a devotion to Mary we cannot be saved.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I couldn’t remember this actually being said by the OP so I looked it up. It’s not there. What the OP did do was to post some quotes from some heavy duty saints that have never been shown to be contrary by the Church. I’m going to take a stab at this again. While some can be saved without Mary (hey some can even be saved without baptism with water), there are many more that must use Mary to be saved. In other words, they will only truly find Christ through her. This is not contrary to God nor is it leaving him out. In fact, it is this way because he ordained it to be so. I’m still waiting for some to explain away the quotes from MANY saints. Go could have bypassed Mary all together. He didn’t choose to do this.

I’m not sure I like the term “use Mary” as though she were some sort of salvation machine. Perhaps a better way to say would be “to avail one’s self to Mary’s help?”

 

[nilofc]

You know here is something i never understood, i have a cousin who reads the bible everyday and has no idea what she is talking about God bless her, but here is an example. She fights with me because i light candles and pray to saint Jude, Joseph, And Blessed Mother to help me and my family everyday. Now she said i can pray to my dead saints everyday it wont help they are dead, then i say , well see Catholics dont believe in death we believe Jesus took it away when he died on the Cross. She says you can only pray to God i explain intercession, well im going to hell then. Then a week later she says her mom is looking down on her and helping her. Now why is her mom not dead but my Saints are. Then she says God only answers your prayers if you ask him and pray to him you dont need anyone else. he wont listen. then shes call a week later and asks me to pray for her. See what i mean? I said to her one day, think of this just for a minute do you really think that when i die and I meet God that he is going to say, oh no. You are going to Hell because you respected my Mother and Honored her. She said Yes. But shes knows that she is going to heaven, its just a shame Catholics dont believe that she said, I said another words you can break every commandment in the book but as long as you believe in God you are going to heaven. She said yes. Oh she said also you are going to hell for going to confession, we are putting a priest before God. When i ask her about Peter getting the CHurch all of that,( the gospel) shes says thats not what it means. I say okay what does it mean. She said I dont know but not that. Your Pope is just telling you that. He is brainwashing me. Go figure? I say okay who do you follow what church, she said she follows herself no Man. I said i do his name is Jesus Christ. She thinks God wants her to give her testimony and teach everyone religion. she knows this is big and going to happen to her.

Hmmm…can you ask your cousin where in the bible does it says that Saints are dead?

Didn’t it say that God is the God of the Living. Saints are more alive than us for they experience no pain, no hurts.

Maybe you can give her a book of Karl Keating “Catholicism and Fundamentalism”.

Thanks for your defense of the truth.

 

[nilofc]

It’s also not substantiated by the teaching of the magesterium of the Catholic Church.

It is. Read the past posts for more information.

There is ONE unforgiveable sin…sheesh.

Sin against the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:22-32). But there are many forms. The sin against the Holy Spirit is thinking that your sin is bigger than God’s mercy and having died in that state. This alone will take in many forms. ewtnkids.com/library/ANSWERS/UNFORGIV.HTM

One more thing… it is never mentioned that there is only ONE and absolutely ONE unforgivable sin. For this sin takes many forms.

You do realize that just because St. Monfort believed something doesn’t make it true…right? St Peter believed the world was flat and less than 6000 years old.

Of course, but when it is thought by the Church then you need to accept it.

 

[nilofc]

I’m not sure I like the term “use Mary” as though she were some sort of salvation machine. Perhaps a better way to say would be “to avail one’s self to Mary’s help?”

Nope the word is “Necessary, Necessary, Necessary”. We are not going after “availing” for that is watering down the issue as to present as Mary as an option only.

 

[bear06]

…and all of you who are backing the veracity of the O.P. claim, do you then believe only Catholic Christians (or are we Marians?) with personal devotions to the B.V.M. are going to Heaven, and the rest of the world to Hell?

I think we’ve been over this repeatedly. No. Even those unbaptised with water can gain salvation. That said, it’s not the ordinary means. That’s not found in scripture either and yet that’s what the Church teaches.

 

[Yerusalyim]

Of course, but when it is thought by the Church then you need to accept it.

Except that the Holy Catholic Church DOES NOT teach that devotion to Mary is necessary for salvation. Those of you who propagate this nonsense to great harm to the Church and the body of Christ. Have your devotion to Mary, that’s all well fine and good, but to insist it is NECESSARY for salvation is bordering on heresy.

 

[nilofc]

Except that the Holy Catholic Church DOES NOT teach that devotion to Mary is necessary for salvation. Those of you who propagate this nonsense to great harm to the Church and the body of Christ. Have your devotion to Mary, that’s all well fine and good, but to insist it is NECESSARY for salvation is bordering on heresy.

Please read past posts on the numerous church teachings that were enumerated. We cannot repeat what has already been posted. We will all benefit knowing that the Church teaches this,

Please read the past posts.

 

[peso73]

I’m gonna catch up on the past posts as recommended, but as Bear06 points out, the statement “Devotion To Our Lady Is Necessary For Salvation” is not true.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN

971 “All generations will call me blessed”: "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517

III. MARY - ESCHATOLOGICAL ICON OF THE CHURCH

972 After speaking of the Church, her origin, mission, and destiny, we can find no better way to conclude than by looking to Mary. In her we contemplate what the Church already is in her mystery on her own “pilgrimage of faith,” and what she will be in the homeland at the end of her journey. There, “in the glory of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity,” "in the communion of all the saints,"518 the Church is awaited by the one she venerates as Mother of her Lord and as her own mother.

In the meantime the Mother of Jesus, in the glory which she possesses in body and soul in heaven, is the image and beginning of the Church as it is to be perfected in the world to come. Likewise she shines forth on earth until the day of the Lord shall come, a sign of certain hope and comfort to the pilgrim People of God.51

We see here that devotion to our Lady is both “intrinsic to Christian worship” (and surely worship is a component of our salvation-seeking) and that said devotion ‘greatly fosters’ devotion to God (which again is surely a component of salvation-seeking).

If the “image and beginning of the Church as it is to be perfected in the world to come” is already present in Mary, as is shown to be our belief, and if one of the essential components of our salvation is that we are members of that Church–one Body in Christ; if we are called upon through both Scripture and Tradition to bless her, if her fiat led to the Incarnation of the God we adore. . .

then most certainly devotion to Our Lady is a **necessary part **of salvation.

I think too many people take an ‘either-or’ view or a exclusionary view.

We don’t say that ONLY devotion to Our Lady is necessary for salvation.

But since devotion to Our Lady is necessary for helping us to be most devoted to God (see above), for that alone (and it is not the only gift we receive from Mary) we should note its importance, its necessity.

 

[bear06]

I’m gonna catch up on the past posts as recommended, but as Bear06 points out, the statement “Devotion To Our Lady Is Necessary For Salvation” is not true.

Just a clarification, it may be necessary for many (or I might even say most) because that is the only way they will come to know Our Lord. Like I’ve said all a long there are some subtleties here that people are not seeing. For a better illustration the catechism says were must know Him, love Him and serve Him in this world to be happy with him in the next. Can we learn to love Him as we should without Mary? Sure, it’s possible for some but probably not for most. In other words, Mary is the ordinary means for coming to know Our Lord. Our devotion to Mary helps us cultivate this knowledge of Our Lord so that we can love Him and serve Him. We cannot love Him and serve Him without knowledge of Him first. One cannot say a devotion to Mary is necessary for salvation for all nor can one say that Mary is not necessary for salvation for all. One can say that devotion to Mary may not be necessary for salvation or that devotion to Mary may be necessary for salvation. Invincible ignorance is one thing but it would be stupid to throw away the most valuable help to salvation. Maybe this question would help. Does anyone here think that a devotion to Mary is a hinderance to salvation?

 

[bear06]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

We see here that devotion to our Lady is both “intrinsic to Christian worship” (and surely worship is a component of our salvation-seeking) and that said devotion ‘greatly fosters’ devotion to God (which again is surely a component of salvation-seeking).

If the “image and beginning of the Church as it is to be perfected in the world to come” is already present in Mary, as is shown to be our belief, and if one of the essential components of our salvation is that we are members of that Church–one Body in Christ; if we are called upon through both Scripture and Tradition to bless her, if her fiat led to the Incarnation of the God we adore. . .

then most certainly devotion to Our Lady is a **necessary part **of salvation.

I think too many people take an ‘either-or’ view or a exclusionary view.

We don’t say that ONLY devotion to Our Lady is necessary for salvation.

But since devotion to Our Lady is necessary for helping us to be most devoted to God (see above), for that alone (and it is not the only gift we receive from Mary) we should note its importance, its necessity.

Nicely said.

 

[Roy5]

B]Why do some well-meaning Catholics major in minors?

Devotion to Our Lady necessary for salvation? Seems like such a secondary concern. Good Catholics ought to be focusing instead on the essentials of the faith and not peripheral issues.

When Christ was asked how to inherit eternal life he said to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. When that wasn't clear enough he told thr story of the Good Samaritan. No mention of Mary.

 It was Christ who said in despair: "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and fo not the things that I say?" 

  The simple message of Christ too often gets lost amid theological discussions that avoid the most important emphasis of the gospels.

   And as for Mary. honor her, of course. But some well-meaning Catholics carry their adulation too far. Why, if Mary is so key, does St. Paul neglect to mention her even once in all his letters to all those early churches? I have to infer that the near-worship of Mary arose later, influenced by the central role goddesses played in contemporary religions.

 

[nilofc]

B]Why do some well-meaning Catholics major in minors?

Devotion to Our Lady necessary for salvation? Seems like such a secondary concern. Good Catholics ought to be focusing instead on the essentials of the faith and not peripheral issues.

When Christ was asked how to inherit eternal life he said to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. When that wasn't clear enough he told thr story of the Good Samaritan. No mention of Mary.

 It was Christ who said in despair: "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and fo not the things that I say?" 

  The simple message of Christ too often gets lost amid theological discussions that avoid the most important emphasis of the gospels.

   And as for Mary. honor her, of course. But some well-meaning Catholics carry their adulation too far. Why, if Mary is so key, does St. Paul neglect to mention her even once in all his letters to all those early churches? I have to infer that the near-worship of Mary arose later, influenced by the central role goddesses played in contemporary religions.

If the “Trinity” or “Incarnation” is so much a key to our salvation… I wonder why the bible didn’t even metion it even once.

See the falacy in your logic?

Christ left us a teaching church. Follow the teachings of the Catholic Church.

 

[TylerM]

I don’t think devotion to Our Lady is necessary intrinsically. It may be necessary, however, for obedience to the Church and Holy Tradition. In this sense, it may be necessary.

“If anyone shall not confess the holy ever-virgin Mary, truly and properly the Mother of God, to be higher than every creature whether visible or invisible, and does not with sincere faith seek her intercessions as of one having confidence in her access to our God, since she bare him, [anathema].” – Second Ecumenical Council of Nicea

 

[Swiss_Guard]

Show me any Church document, any Church teaching, any Church doctrine that says we can separate the Blessed Mother from her Divine Son and then I’ll believe devotion to Our Lady isn’t necessary for salvation.

Do you worship Jesus? Then you have devotion to Our Lady.

Jesus and Mary cannot be separated from each other. When you honor Our Lady, you show the greatest honor to her Son.

Our Lady’s will is never opposed to the will of her Divine Son.

 

[nilofc]

I don’t think devotion to Our Lady is necessary intrinsically. It may be necessary, however, for obedience to the Church and Holy Tradition. In this sense, it may be necessary.

“If anyone shall not confess the holy ever-virgin Mary, truly and properly the Mother of God, to be higher than every creature whether visible or invisible, and does not with sincere faith seek her intercessions as of one having confidence in her access to our God, since she bare him, [anathema].” – Second Ecumenical Council of Nicea

Catechism of the Catholic Church
971: …"The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship"

969 …"Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.