Devotion To Our Lady Is Necessary For Salvation

[Eilish_Maura]

If you ask the Father for sex with someone else’s spouse in Christ’s name. Do you really think God is going to give it to you?

Ohh so if we ask for it through Mary God would do it??

 

[GerardP]

Ohh so if we ask for it through Mary God would do it??

No. But she might be able to spare you from His wrath for asking such a thing. You’re reclamation may go the easier way or the harder way. She can make the difference.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

No. But she might be able to spare you from His wrath for asking such a thing. You’re reclamation may go the easier way or the harder way. She can make the difference.

Are you saying that those without a personal devotion to the BVM will have a harder time getting into Heaven because she can’t/won’t vouch for them?

 

[GerardP]

Are you saying that those without a personal devotion to the BVM will have a harder time getting into Heaven because she can’t/won’t vouch for them?

Our Lady will not force herself on those who know her and reject her. That leaves basically, our overworked guardian Angels and maybe some saints that are our ancestors.

Let me ask you this, Who does God listen to in response to prayer more, Mary or anyone else?

Why is Mary alone to be given Hyperdulia? There is a heirarchy in Heaven. That has to be remembered.

God alone recieves Latria. (worship)

Mary receives Hyperdulia (special honor)

St. Joseph receives Protodulia (first honor among the Saints)

After that, St. Micheal the Archangel is the prince of Heaven.

All of the above are our protectors, the scourge of the demons and they can intercede in any matter for us.

After that, St. John the Baptist, Sts Peter and Paul and all of the other saints and Angels

I don’t understand why you are so negative about God’s providence by providing us with these powerful and necessary intercessors.

The world and all of creation would fall apart in an instant without the angels and saints doing their work.

Every time we fall into sin, it is they who will protect us and help us to get back to Him.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Our Lady will not force herself on those who know her and reject her. That leaves basically, our overworked guardian Angels and maybe some saints that are our ancestors.

Let me ask you this, Who does God listen to in response to prayer more, Mary or anyone else?

Why is Mary alone to be given Hyperdulia? There is a heirarchy in Heaven. That has to be remembered.

God alone recieves Latria. (worship)

Mary receives Hyperdulia (special honor)

St. Joseph receives Protodulia (first honor among the Saints)

After that, St. Micheal the Archangel is the prince of Heaven.

All of the above are our protectors, the scourge of the demons and they can intercede in any matter for us.

After that, St. John the Baptist, Sts Peter and Paul and all of the other saints and Angels

I don’t understand why you are so negative about God’s providence by providing us with these powerful and necessary intercessors.

The world and all of creation would fall apart in an instant without the angels and saints doing their work.

Every time we fall into sin, it is they who will protect us and help us to get back to Him.

I am negative about inappropriate comments regarding her or any of the saints - especially when those that make out that all else is inferior or that a personal devotion to her or any other saint is required.

If the Church does not teach it as required who has the authority to say the Church is wrong?

 

[Freshman88]

I am negative about inappropriate comments regarding her or any of the saints - especially when those that make out that all else is inferior or that a personal devotion to her or any other saint is required.

If the Church does not teach it as required who has the authority to say the Church is wrong?

The devoution of the saints and Mary is in the very liturgy - all Catholics already have this devotion. - it wouldn’t be a big step to say that it is necessary.

 

[GerardP]

This was one of Bishop Sheen’s favorite poems.

Lovely Lady dressed in blue
Teach me how to pray!
God was just your little boy,
Tell me what to say!

Did you lift Him up, sometimes,
Gently on your knee?
Did you sing to Him the way
Mother does to me?

Did you hold His hand at night?
Did you ever try
Telling stories of the world?
O! And did He cry?

Do you really think He cares
If I tell Him things -------
Little things that happen? And
Do the Angels’ wings

Make a noise? And can He hear
Me if I speak low?
Does He understand me now?
Tell me -------for you know.

Lovely Lady dressed in blue -------
Teach me how to pray!
God was just your little boy,
And you know the way.

—Mary Dixon Thayer

 

[roguejim]

Interesting, yes. I meant that in the Bible itself there are very few references to Mary, and this is surprising given the way she is/was viewed in later times. I wonder, and I do not know the answer to this, I wonder what the early Church fathers had to say about Mary. Does anyone have that info? Thanks…

“He who is devout to the Virgin Mother will certainly never be lost.”
ST IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH (!st Century)

 

[bear06]

It’s rather hard to be in the Communion of Saints without having a devotion to them.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p5.htm

as the Catholic Encyclopedia states:

Devotion to Our Blessed Lady in its ultimate analysis must be regarded as a practical application of the doctrine of the Communion of Saints.

catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals/Faith/2000-12/hardon.html

Mary’s Place in The Mystical Body
In a way, the most inspiring feature of Bellarmine’s theology of the Mystical Body is the place which he assigns within it to the Blessed Mother of God: “The Head of the Catholic Church is Jesus Christ, and Mary is the neck which joins the Head to its Body.” Because she has merited so well of God by her perfect conformity to His holy will, He has decreed that “all the gifts and all the graces which proceed from Christ as the Head should pass through Mary to the Body of the Church. Even the physical body has several members in its other parts—hands, shoulders, arms and feet—but only one head and one neck. So also the Church has many apostles, martyrs, confessors and virgins, but only one Head, the Son of God, and one bond between the Head and members, the Mother of God. By virtue of her transcendent merits before God, the Blessed Virgin stands closer than any other creature to the Head of the Mystical Body; it is no exaggeration to say that she unites the Head to the Body, and that therefore through her, before all others, flow the heavenly blessings from the Head, who is Christ, to us who are His members.”13

The doctrine of the Mystical Body is anything but sterile theology. Among the practical consequences which St. Robert derives from our incorporation in Christ is the motive which it gives for the practice of fraternal charity. The Saints in heaven intercede for the souls in purgatory, he says, because they are both members of the same Body. The souls in purgatory intercede for each other because they are also members of one Body; the Saints and poor souls intercede for us because we are one Body with them, member of member; and we are moved to pray for each other on earth, to ask for favors from the Saints in heaven, and to pray for the souls in purgatory because “together with them we form one Church and one Body, united by the bond of the same charity in the Kingdom of Christ.”14

Sorry if this is repeating. I tried to read through all of the posts before posting but I might have missed some. My router got disconnected by my tot and I didn’t discove it until late this evening.

 

[roguejim]

That misses the point. It is not about whether Christ being born of Mary was necessary. The question is whether Mary handles every Grace and our salvation is determined by Mary. The most offensive quote above is the one by Bernardine who says that Mary dispenses Grace, “to whomsoever she desires, when she desires, in the maner she desires, and to whatever degree she desires.” As if she is the determiner of salvation. It is complete nonsense and I will say now that it is heresy.

I agree that she is a means to Christ but the fact is that Gods Grace is not something that is created and needs to be handled by Mary. Grace is nothing other than God Himself.

Imagine if you can, Internet jimmy accuses a canonized saint of heresy, without an ounce of authority to do so. Go to Confession.

 

[AJV]

“He who is devout to the Virgin Mother will certainly never be lost.”
ST IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH (!st Century)

Actually that quote is spurious. I doubt you’ll find in any of St. Ignatius’ writings (but I’m interested if you do…)

 

[AJV]

Well, she was certainly chosen to bring forth the Christ. Christ’s very flesh was partly Mary’s. What does this mean for something even as important as the Eucharist - the very flesh of Christ contains Mary and her lineage.

Isn’t this a bit of a tricky area? IIRC, only a few theologians speculated the original flesh Christ took from Mary was unchanged, and the Church squashed the view that the flesh of Mary was present in the Sacrament. While the Body of Christ is the Body born of Mary, doesn’t it tread too close to the line to assert “the flesh of Christ contains Mary”?

 

[jimmy]

Actually that quote is spurious. I doubt you’ll find in any of St. Ignatius’ writings (but I’m interested if you do…)

I did a search and saw it referenced to saint Irenaeus but without any quotation of where it is from. I tried to search through his against heresies(I have a searchable version on my computer) but could not find it.

 

[jimmy]

Imagine if you can, Internet jimmy accuses a canonized saint of heresy, without an ounce of authority to do so. Go to Confession.

Get over yourself and get rid of your judgemental attitude. It is heresy what he was professing. What the anti-Catholics say about Catholics is true of what Bernardine taught in that passage. It is turning Mary into a god.

 

[jimmy]

“He who is devout to the Virgin Mother will certainly never be lost.”
ST IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH (!st Century)

That is not in any of St. Ignatius’ letters. So it is false.

 

[planter654]

This an exhortation to anyone who would wish to be saved.

“All gifts, virtues, and graces of the Holy Ghost are administered by the hands of Mary to whomsoever she desires, when she desires, in the maner she desires, and to whatever degree she desires. Mary is the dispensatrix of all the graces God bestows. Every grace granted to man in this life has three successive steps: from God it comes to Christ, and from Christ to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us.”
ST. BERNARDINE OF SIENNA

“Every grace which is communicated has a three-fold origin: it flows from God to Christ, from Christ to the Virgin, and from the Virgin to us.”
POPE LEO XIII

“Mary has the greatest and clearest claims to our homage and praise: she is the salvation of the world; our dependence upon the august Mary is complete and universal. There is neither on earth nor in Heaven any justified soul, any one of the Elect, who does not owe Mary his justice and his glory.”
VEN. WILLIAM JOSEPH CHAMINADE

“Many have proved invincibly, from the sentiments of the Fathers -
among others: St. Augustine, St. Ephrem, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Germanus of Constantinople, St. John Damascene, St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine, St. Thomas, and St. Bonaventure - that devotion to Our Most Blessed Virgin is necessary for salvation, and that it is an infallible mark of reprobation to have no esteem or love for the Holy Virgin while,
on the other hand, it is an infallible mark of predestination to be entirely and truly devoted to her.”
ST. LOUIS MARIE DE MONTFORT

“Mary is the whole hope of our salvation.”
ST. THOMAS AQUINAS

“If our life were not under the protection of Mary, we might tremble for our perseverance and salvation. In her hands Jesus has placed His almighty power in the order of salvation. All the graces of salvation, both the natural and the spiritual, will be given to us by Mary.”
ST. PETER JULIAN EYMARD

“The Child is not found without Mary, His Mother. If, then it is impossible to separate what God has united, it is also certain that you cannot find Jesus except with Mary and through Mary.”
POPE ST. PIUS X

“If you persevere till death in true devotion to Mary, your salvation is certain.”
ST. LOUIS MARIE DE MONTFORT

“In the multitude of the Elect she shall have praise, and among the blessed she shall be blessed.”
ECCLESIASTICUS 24:4

“Christ entrusted to His Mother’s maternal care the mission of making the Church a single family. Yes, in Mary we have the bond of communion for all of us who, through Faith and Baptism, are disciples and brothers of Jesus.”
POPE JOHN PAUL II

“However great a sinner may have been, if he shows himself devout to Mary he will never perish.”
ST. HILARY OF POITIERS

“He who is devout to the Virgin Mother will certainly never be lost.”
ST IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH

“The servants of Mary are as certain of getting to Paradise as though they were already there. Who are they who are saved, and reign in Heaven? Surely, those for whom the Queen of Mercy intercedes. The clients of Mary will necessarily be saved.”
ST ALPHONSUS MARIA LIGUORI

I am very confused. Are theses not “all human myths”? What about ST. Joseph, Abraham etc. Jesus did not come to teach us about Our Blessed Mother but about God! Jesus did not suffer on the cross in vain?" Anyone who preaches a gospel other than the one we have given and witness to, do not accept! We were told the only way to God is through Jesus Christ them.

Are we taking away the Jesus infinite mercy he has offered to the Father?

God told Mary she would be called Blessed among all woman, for God had created her, choosen her, to be the mother of our Lord. Mary replied " I am a handmaiden of the Lord be it done onto me according to your word. She was to be called Blessed among all woman, was she not?

God Bless

 

[planter654]

Yes, that seems to be the point here. In addition, there are many more, similar quotes from other popes and saints, a few of which I have posted below.
True Devotion To Mary by St. Louis Marie De Montfort is considered to be the classic work on Mary. If this book had been filled with doctrinal error, De Montfort would not have been canonized. So, the question goes back to the original quotations. These popes and saints were either correct or incorrect. They were either orthodox in their statements or they were heterodox in their statements. And we must be willing to admit that if they were heterodox in their statements, then they were blaspheming as well.

Here is some interesting reading on True Devotion To Mary
with some reflections on the same book by the late Pope John Paul II. michaeljournal.org/montfort.htm

“With reason did the Most Holy Virgin predict that all generations would call her blessed, for all the Elect obtain eternal salvation through the means of Mary”
ST IDELPHONSUS

“Every one of the multitudes, therefore, whom the evil of calamitous circumstances has stolen away from Catholic unity, must be born again to Christ by that same Mother whom God has endowed with a never-failing fertility to bring forth a holy people.”
POPE LEO XIII

“Bearing in her womb the Savior, Mary can also be said to have borne all those whose life the Savior’s life enshrined. All of us, then, as many as are knit to Christ, have come forth from Mary’s womb: one Body, as it were, knit together with its Head.”
POPE ST PIUS X

“Souls protected by Mary, and on whom she casts her eyes, are necessarily justified and saved. Just as it is impossible that they be saved from whom Mary turns away her eyes of mercy, so it is certain that they who are loved by Mary, and for whom she intercedes, will obtain justification and eternal life.”
ST ANTONINUS

“We believe that Mary opens the abyss of God’s mercy to whomsoever she wills, when she wills, and as she wills; so that there is no sinner, however great, who is lost if Mary protects him.”
ST BONAVENTURE

“Not a single soul who has really persevered in her service has ever been damned.”
ST LOUIS MARIE DE MONTFORT

“O Mother of God! If I place my confidence in thee, I shall be saved; if I am under thy protection, I have nothing to fear; for being thy client is a certainty of salvation which God grants only to those whom He intends to save.”
ST JOHN DAMASCENE

“He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins. He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven. Not only will those from whom Mary turns her countenance not be saved, but there will be no hope of their salvation. No one can be saved without the protection of the Blessed Virgin Mary.”
ST BONAVENTURE

“To desire grace without recourse to the Virgin Mother is to desire to fly without wings.”
POPE PIUS XII

“Jesus honored her before all ages, and will honor her for all ages. No one comes to Him, nor even near Him, no one is saved or sanctified, if he too will not honor her. This is the lot of angels and of men.”
ST MAXIMILIAN MARY KOLBE

I will put in with the saints and popes.

Then why do we need Jesus? Jesus did not come to preach about Mary he came to teach us about God and paid the debt of our sins. I love our dear Mother, but this is all a gospel starting with human myths. Remember God created Our Mother and she could not sin. Yes! I love her!

God Bless

God Bless

 

[planter654]

This is absurd are you saying our Blessed Mother wants to take away the glory from her son and God who created her and us? whom she watched be crucified, suffering the worst agony of death that no one else has ever suffered? Did the apostles preach such a gospel and tell us to go now the only way to Jesus is through Blessed Mary? Next you will be telling us the only way to Mary is through Mary’s Mother Anna. Are you calling God a liar? Did Jesus suffer in vain?

These are human myths, little St. Theresa also mentions this and her struggle in her hrs of darkness! She Loved our Blessed Mother also and talks about this. She say’s and asked herself what Mother would want to glorify herself and shine brighter than her son? Jesus Christ is the true tabernacle that enter into the HOLIES OF HOLIES–with his own body and blood----once and for all who sits at the right hand of the Father. Not a copy of the heavenly tabernacle made by hands, but the Heavenly Tabernacle, the Kingdom of God! No one! else could ever do!

Be very careful of those who tell you differently! Jesus Christ is the Heavenly Tabernacle our HIGH PRIEST FOREVER over his Church, the Kingdom of God!

Be careful Satan is great deceiver and has had many generations of experience anything that can take you further, further away from Worshipping only God First and being obedient to God’s will, he will surly do! Satan appeared as angel to Jesus! Satan makes it look like it is a good thing, but slowly leads us away from our true source of power and strenght, our creator God!

Remember what is important is not the instructment that God chooses, it is that we say YES! to God, I am a handmaiden of the Lord be it done to me according to your word!!

Pray, pray, pray and I will not let me feel guilty I have a relationship with our Blessed Mother. Worship God! Do not turn your back to him! When we Worship God our Father, we also honour all who whoship and Love God!

God Bless

 

[IAmEdmund]

I will put in with the saints and popes.

I will put in with Jesus Christ.

And I quote: “For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.” (I Corinthians 2:2)

With all due respect, The Blessed Virgin Mary is our Mother who ALWAYS shows us the Son. Her intercessory act at the wedding feast of Cana does indicate her ability to intercede for us. However, no where does Jesus himself paint her or declare her equal with himself in any salvific way.

Honor, venerate, pray to, seek intercession from, and hold devotion to Mother Mary?.. absolutely YES! However, to afford her equation with her Son seems more than was ever intended, scripturally or traditionally. Personally, I think she finds the idea of declaring her necessary to salvation horrifying. She has NEVER brought attention to herself… she has ALWAYS pointed to Christ. Historically, it has been one of the benchmarks of the churchs apparition examinations that the `Mary’ seen or experienced in the apparition under examination ALWAYS points to Christ.

 

[planter654]

Remember Abraham was going to scarifice his son when ask by God! Worship God First. These are all human myths! Is that why the Church order these saints to write a daily diary of their life. Little Theresa did not want to do so, she said she did not want to interfer with the works of God! Yet the Church says they are all knowing, yet where did they get this from!

Pray pray pray! Satan knows the time he has left and knows more than anyone----------- God is real and living and that God’s I wills are all fufilled! the Blessings and the curses. Looked what happened to the Israelities when they disobedied God! We have been grafted on for our salvations comes from The Jews, but we can also be drafted off----------obey God and his commandments!

No one is talking about God this much! Why? What have you done for God today, tell me about God?

God Bless pray pray pray Worship God!