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Unitas
Guest
Pronoun for “writings” from what I quoted.
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bear06
Guest
So you’re saying that St. Louis de Montforts writings are part of the Deposit of Faith?
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Formosus
Guest
If the Saint is a Bishop writing in the position as a teaching authority for the Church (not a private writing or opinion) then yes its part of the deposit of the Faith, BUT St. Louis De Montfort’s writings are not part of the Deposit of the Faith.
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bear06
Guest
I’m thinking it would be more proper to say that St. Louis de Montfort’s writings contain things from the Deposit of Faith rather than his writings are part of the Deposit of Faith. Not that I have a thing against his writings - in fact I love them, I just don’t think it’s proper to say that his writings are part of the Deposit of Faith.
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CradleCath
Guest
I agree. It is downright hateful to infer that Catholics on this board do not know the difference between worshipping God & honoring Mary. The “fact” that devotion to Mary interfers & supercedes the worship of God has always been an unfair & untrue accusation hurled at us by non-Catholic bigots. Now, we see the same ignorance & prejudice from Catholics??
While Vatican II did NOT, in it’s documents. lessen Mary’s role in our Church, the rabid ecumenicists, in the “spirit of Vatican II” have tried to & been fairly successful. After all, our teachings on our Heavenly Mother have been considered a road block for the reconciliation of our “separated brethren”. Honoring Mary has become “old-fashioned” & passe’. Just like kneeling for Communion & the Roman Canon , our prayers that invoke the intercession of Christ’s Mother are considered overly pious & just too Catholic,too Catholic.
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CradleCath
Guest
I agree. It is downright hateful to infer that Catholics on this board do not know the difference between worshipping God & honoring Mary. The “fact” that devotion to Mary interfers & supercedes the worship of God has always been an unfair & untrue accusation hurled at us by non-Catholic bigots. Now, we see the same ignorance & prejudice from Catholics??
While Vatican II did NOT, in it’s documents. lessen Mary’s role in our Church, the rabid ecumenicists, in the “spirit of Vatican II” have tried to & been fairly successful. After all, our teachings on our Heavenly Mother have been considered a road block for the reconciliation of our “separated brethren”. Honoring Mary has become “old-fashioned” & passe’. Just like kneeling for Communion & the Roman Canon , our prayers that invoke the intercession of Christ’s Mother are considered overly pious & just too Catholic…
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Jimmy_B
Guest
+JMJ+
Hello Jim,
Great post! I went through all the posts here and I did not see a reference to Luke 2:35, which I feel, is something, which is important to add to this discussion. I think is an extremely important, often overlooked verse that goes to the heart of this discussion (no pun intended).
Some translations state - “…Your own soul will be pierced”
Peace
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Total Consecration to Jesus through Mary by Father John Corapi
“Totus tuus,” “Everything for you.” All for Jesus through Mary”
The title of this series and “totus tuus” are Pope John Paul II quotes.
Mary is the Mother of God and one of His greatest disciples! Many here fail to view Mary as a disciple of Christ and a perfect example of how to love and follow God and that is part of the problem.
Peace.
“Totus tuus,” “Everything for you.” All for Jesus through Mary”
The title of this series and “totus tuus” are Pope John Paul II quotes.
Mary is the Mother of God and one of His greatest disciples! Many here fail to view Mary as a disciple of Christ and a perfect example of how to love and follow God and that is part of the problem.
Peace.
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sphilomena
Guest
Total Consecration to Jesus through Mary by Father John Corapi
“Totus tuus,” “Everything for you.” All for Jesus through Mary”
The title of this series and “totus tuus” are Pope John Paul II quotes.
Mary is the Mother of God and one of His greatest disciples! Many here fail to view Mary as a disciple of Christ and a perfect example of how to love and follow God and that is part of the problem.
Peace.
Beautiful.(Jimmy, your homepage is wonderful. Glad the Lord kept you safe in your career.)
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peso73
Guest
…ok, I think all that is great, I am a BIG fan of Fr. Corapi, BUT the O.P. is saying if you don’t have a devotion to the Blessed Mother, you are toast…I think those of us arguing against this aren’t against devotion to Mary, or any of the other saints, and most I’d imagine DO have a devotion to Our Lady, HOWEVER, having one is not necessary to get to Heaven.Total Consecration to Jesus through Mary by Father John Corapi
“Totus tuus,” “Everything for you.” All for Jesus through Mary”
The title of this series and “totus tuus” are Pope John Paul II quotes.
Mary is the Mother of God and one of His greatest disciples! Many here fail to view Mary as a disciple of Christ and a perfect example of how to love and follow God and that is part of the problem.
Peace.
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bear06
Guest
I couldn’t remember this actually being said by the OP so I looked it up. It’s not there. What the OP did do was to post some quotes from some heavy duty saints that have never been shown to be contrary by the Church. I’m going to take a stab at this again. While some can be saved without Mary (hey some can even be saved without baptism with water), there are many more that must use Mary to be saved. In other words, they will only truly find Christ through her. This is not contrary to God nor is it leaving him out. In fact, it is this way because he ordained it to be so. I’m still waiting for some to explain away the quotes from MANY saints. Go could have bypassed Mary all together. He didn’t choose to do this.
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peso73
Guest
…the title?..
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Miles_Mariae
Guest
Great explanation, IMO. People seem all too comfortable with ignoring advice from great saints like St. Thomas Aquinas.
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planter654
Guest
You said above---- there are many more that “MUST USE” Mary to be saved. In other words, they will only truly find Christ through her?
If this is how they find Jesus, then with out disrespect, who is “not doing their job” by spreading the gospels, that they would know Mary first and not Jesus Christ?
You said---- This is not contrary to God, nor is it leaving him out----really?
Did Jesus ever say or preach this?
Is this what Jesus taught us?
Did the Apostles preach this?
Is this the soul reason why Jesus came?
Was Jesus crucifixtion not enough?
I love dearly our Blessed Mother, but are we preach a whole new gospel?
title topic—Devotion to Our Lady is NECESSARY FOR SALVATION?
Just asking—God Bless
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bear06
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bear06
Guest
…continued
I’d really recommend reading this entire Apostolic Constitution but here’s a great quote:
I’d really recommend reading this entire Apostolic Constitution but here’s a great quote:
continued…
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bear06
Guest
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bear06
Guest
Here’s another great article that covers most of the points made and debated.
cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=99
cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=99
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roguejim
Guest
Consider this speculation…
At the dawn of Creation, many of God’s angels, who were purely spiritual beings, were scandalized that He would create a physical world. They were further scandalized that the Second Person of The Holy Trinity would become lowly, be “made flesh…”, and that they would still have to render Him homage. Consequently, their unwillingness to serve, or render Him homage was punished by eternal damnation.
Perhaps, just perhaps God is applying a similar test upon His creation by exalting the lowly Virgin to a position that many feel is scandalous. Perhaps the final Prophet, Mary, by her exaltation will be a scandal to those who will not submit to the will of God, and render Her the praise and devotion that God demands, and has made known through His popes and saints.
As I said, this is just some idle speculation…
At the dawn of Creation, many of God’s angels, who were purely spiritual beings, were scandalized that He would create a physical world. They were further scandalized that the Second Person of The Holy Trinity would become lowly, be “made flesh…”, and that they would still have to render Him homage. Consequently, their unwillingness to serve, or render Him homage was punished by eternal damnation.
Perhaps, just perhaps God is applying a similar test upon His creation by exalting the lowly Virgin to a position that many feel is scandalous. Perhaps the final Prophet, Mary, by her exaltation will be a scandal to those who will not submit to the will of God, and render Her the praise and devotion that God demands, and has made known through His popes and saints.
As I said, this is just some idle speculation…
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planter654
Guest
Scott Hahan saying that Blessed Virgin Mary is the ark of the covenant. When saying salvation only through the devotion of Mary whom I love dearly, but this is what I believe in the word of God!
Hebrews NAB-----The ark of the convanant. Hebrews Chapter 9 verse 4--------18
Behind the 2nd veil was the taberancle (Jesus Chirst) the Holy of Holies, in which were the gold altar of incense and the Ark of the covenant entirely covered with gold.---------- In it (Ark) were the gold jar containing manna------- ( now Jesus Chirst), the staff-------- of Aaron (priest) that had sprouted, and the tablets-------- ( of Moses commandments) of the covenant.
With these arrangements for worship, the priests, in performing their service go into the OUTER tabernacle “repeatedly”, but the high priest (now --Jesus Christ has entered crucifixation, body and blood shed for us) alone goes into the inner one once a year, not without blood that he offers for himself and for the sins of the people. In this way the Holy spirit shows that the way into the sanctuary had not yet been revealed while the OUTER tabernacle still had its place. This is a “symbol” of the present time in which gifts and sacrifices are offered that------ “cannot perfect”------- the worshiper in ---------conscience------but only in matters of food and drink and various ritual washings" regulations concerning the------------- flesh------, imposed until the time of the new order.
But when ------Christ----came as------- HIGH PRIEST-----of the good things that have come to be,------passing through the------- greater------- and-------- more perfect tabernacle-------not made by hands, that is ------not belonging to this creatioon, he ( Jesus) entered---------------once for ------all into the sanctuary, not with the blood of goasts and calves but with ------his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption!
For if the blood of goats and bulls and the sprinling of a heifer’s ashes can sanctify those who are defiled so that " their flesh" is cleansed, -------------how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the ----------Eternal Spirit------- offered himself unblemished to God, --------cleanse our ----------consciences from -----dead works to worship-------living God!
Hebrew Chapter 9 Verse 22 According to the law almost everything is ------purified by blood, and---- without the shedding of blood—thereis no forgiveness.
Therefore, it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be------purified by these rites, but the ----heavenly things themselves-----by a better sacrifices—than these. For—Christ did---------not enter into a sanctuary made by hands, a ------copy of the true one, but ------heaven itself, that he ( Jesus) might offer himself -------repeatedly, as the high priest enters each year into a sanctuary with blood that is not his ----own.-----------If that were so, he would have to ---------suffer repeatedly from the foundation of the world!-------------But now-----------once and for all-------he ( Jesus) has -----------appeared at the -----------end of the ages-------------------------to take away sin by---------- his sacrifie.
Ust as it si appointed that --------human beings die once--------, and after this the judment. ------So also Christ, offered -------once to take away the --------------sins of many----------- will appear a second time, not to take away---------sin---------but to bring salvation to those ewho eagerly await him.
Every priest stands daily at his ministry. -----offering frequently those same sacrifices that -------------can never take away sins.------------------but this one (Jesus) offered------one sacrifice for sins-----------------------------and took his seat ( Jesus) forever at the right hand of -------------------------God---------------------. Now he ( Jesus) waits until his ( Jesus) enemies are ------------------made his footstool------
For by---------------one offering-------------he ( Jesus) has made----------------------perfect forever those who are being consecrated. the Holy Spirit also testifies to us
This is the covenant ---------I will-----------establish with them after those days, says the --------------LORD----------" I will" put my laws----------------in their hearts----------and —“I will” write them upon their minds----( conscience).
The Lord also say: Their sins and their evidoing----------- “I will”---------------- remember no more. Where there is------------- forgiveness--------- of these, there is---------------- No longer offering for sin!--------------
Accept Jesus gift of forgiveness, repent and believe in his word. Not to accept this as truth and that our sins are forgiving if we truly believe in Gods word and not accept this is------- an insult to the “Holy Spirt”!---------------------!
I believe and love my Blessed Mother, all our Holy Family in giving all praise, glory in thanksgiving to our HOLY Father---- -----------------“Worship to God” obey his commandments and laws!
God Bless you all just my thoughts.
Hebrews NAB-----The ark of the convanant. Hebrews Chapter 9 verse 4--------18
Behind the 2nd veil was the taberancle (Jesus Chirst) the Holy of Holies, in which were the gold altar of incense and the Ark of the covenant entirely covered with gold.---------- In it (Ark) were the gold jar containing manna------- ( now Jesus Chirst), the staff-------- of Aaron (priest) that had sprouted, and the tablets-------- ( of Moses commandments) of the covenant.
With these arrangements for worship, the priests, in performing their service go into the OUTER tabernacle “repeatedly”, but the high priest (now --Jesus Christ has entered crucifixation, body and blood shed for us) alone goes into the inner one once a year, not without blood that he offers for himself and for the sins of the people. In this way the Holy spirit shows that the way into the sanctuary had not yet been revealed while the OUTER tabernacle still had its place. This is a “symbol” of the present time in which gifts and sacrifices are offered that------ “cannot perfect”------- the worshiper in ---------conscience------but only in matters of food and drink and various ritual washings" regulations concerning the------------- flesh------, imposed until the time of the new order.
But when ------Christ----came as------- HIGH PRIEST-----of the good things that have come to be,------passing through the------- greater------- and-------- more perfect tabernacle-------not made by hands, that is ------not belonging to this creatioon, he ( Jesus) entered---------------once for ------all into the sanctuary, not with the blood of goasts and calves but with ------his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption!
For if the blood of goats and bulls and the sprinling of a heifer’s ashes can sanctify those who are defiled so that " their flesh" is cleansed, -------------how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the ----------Eternal Spirit------- offered himself unblemished to God, --------cleanse our ----------consciences from -----dead works to worship-------living God!
Hebrew Chapter 9 Verse 22 According to the law almost everything is ------purified by blood, and---- without the shedding of blood—thereis no forgiveness.
Therefore, it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be------purified by these rites, but the ----heavenly things themselves-----by a better sacrifices—than these. For—Christ did---------not enter into a sanctuary made by hands, a ------copy of the true one, but ------heaven itself, that he ( Jesus) might offer himself -------repeatedly, as the high priest enters each year into a sanctuary with blood that is not his ----own.-----------If that were so, he would have to ---------suffer repeatedly from the foundation of the world!-------------But now-----------once and for all-------he ( Jesus) has -----------appeared at the -----------end of the ages-------------------------to take away sin by---------- his sacrifie.
Ust as it si appointed that --------human beings die once--------, and after this the judment. ------So also Christ, offered -------once to take away the --------------sins of many----------- will appear a second time, not to take away---------sin---------but to bring salvation to those ewho eagerly await him.
Every priest stands daily at his ministry. -----offering frequently those same sacrifices that -------------can never take away sins.------------------but this one (Jesus) offered------one sacrifice for sins-----------------------------and took his seat ( Jesus) forever at the right hand of -------------------------God---------------------. Now he ( Jesus) waits until his ( Jesus) enemies are ------------------made his footstool------
For by---------------one offering-------------he ( Jesus) has made----------------------perfect forever those who are being consecrated. the Holy Spirit also testifies to us
This is the covenant ---------I will-----------establish with them after those days, says the --------------LORD----------" I will" put my laws----------------in their hearts----------and —“I will” write them upon their minds----( conscience).
The Lord also say: Their sins and their evidoing----------- “I will”---------------- remember no more. Where there is------------- forgiveness--------- of these, there is---------------- No longer offering for sin!--------------
Accept Jesus gift of forgiveness, repent and believe in his word. Not to accept this as truth and that our sins are forgiving if we truly believe in Gods word and not accept this is------- an insult to the “Holy Spirt”!---------------------!
I believe and love my Blessed Mother, all our Holy Family in giving all praise, glory in thanksgiving to our HOLY Father---- -----------------“Worship to God” obey his commandments and laws!
God Bless you all just my thoughts.
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