Devotion To Our Lady Is Necessary For Salvation

[itsjustdave1988]

planter654:

…as found in Scripture

“…and tradition.”

planter654:

Maybe this will help you understand me. I am a Catholic

I think many on this forum are attempting to provide fraternal correction to you with regard to Catholic doctrine and worship, because some of what you stated seems contrary to Catholic doctrine. I hope you accept it as an act of charity, as this is how it is intended.

For example, I am a U.S. citizen. Hypothetically speaking, let’s say I knowingly and obstinately reject the governing authority expressed by the U.S. Constitution, yet still maintain that “I’m American.” This only begs the question: what “kind” of American citizen would I be? Patriotic or dissident? Law-abiding or criminal? There are all kinds citizens. What kind of citizen should one strive to be?

Similarly, one can be a self-proclaimed “Catholic” in name, but one can knowingly and obstinately reject the governing, teaching, and priestly authority of the Church as expressed in the Dogmatic Constitution. What kind of Catholic “citizen” rejects the authority of the Church? Faithful or dissident? Law-abiding or criminal?

Heb 13:17 states: “Obey your prelates and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls: that they may do this with joy and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you.”

Rom 16:17,19 states: “***I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them…***your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you”

What kind of Catholic knowingly and obstinately refuses to obey and submit to the lawful prelates of the Church? Is violation of God’s Word any way to worship God?

It is Catholic doctrine that veneration is due to Mary because of the unique role she had as the Mother of our Lord. Is such honor according to Scripture and Tradition? Yes. In St. Luke’s Gospel, an angel addressed Mary as “Hail, Full of Grace.” This is a title of honor given to her by an Angel of the Lord. St. Luke also affirms that her “soul magnifies the greatness of the Lord”, and that “all generations” will call her blessed. Yet, as the Church has consistently affirmed, “Mary should be honoured, but the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost should be adored. Nobody should adore Mary.” [St. Epiphanius (d. 403), *Haer. 79, 7].

If we truly are brethren of Jesus as we say we are, then we are commanded by God Himself to honor our Mother. Jesus turned to the beloved disciple and said, “Behold, your Mother.” That beloved disciple represents every beloved disciple. She is our Mother. We honor our Mother Mary because such honor is due to her according to God, as taught by Scripture and Tradition in accord with Catholic doctrine, which is binding by the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church (Lumen Gentium) and the Code of Canon Law. The “how” of our veneration is a matter of personal choice, for the most part. Yet, there are Holy Days of Obligation which help us to honor Mary, and these are indeed obligatory.

It would be absurd for me, for example, to claim that “I am Catholic” while at the same time knowingly and obstinately deny Catholic doctrine in defiance of canon law. The people here are trying to teach you what Catholic doctrine affirms, to which every faithful Catholic must also give their religious assent according to the Dogmatic Consitution of the Catholic Church, Lumen Gentium.

We are taught by St. Ignatius Loyola to “think with the Church.” Since you are Catholic, the folks on this forum seem to be trying to help you to also “think with the Church.” That should be the desire of every Catholic who does not want to be dissident or criminal, because as Scripture teaches, we are bound to “listen to the Church” (Matt 18:15ff) precisely because the Church is the “pillar and foundation of truth.” (1 Tim 3:15). If we are to worship God, we cannot simply reject the doctrine of the Church. To do so would be the same as rejecting Christ Himself.

“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” (Luke 10:16)

 

[planter654]

“…and tradition.”

I think many on this forum are attempting to provide fraternal correction to you with regard to Catholic doctrine and worship, because some of what you stated seems contrary to Catholic doctrine. I hope you accept it as an act of charity, as this is how it is intended.

For example, I am a U.S. citizen. Hypothetically speaking, let’s say I knowingly and obstinately reject the governing authority expressed by the U.S. Constitution, yet still maintain that “I’m American.” This only begs the question: what “kind” of American citizen would I be? Patriotic or dissident? Law-abiding or criminal? There are all kinds citizens. What kind of citizen should one strive to be?

Similarly, one can be a self-proclaimed “Catholic” in name, but one can knowingly and obstinately reject the governing, teaching, and priestly authority of the Church as expressed in the Dogmatic Constitution. What kind of Catholic “citizen” rejects the authority of the Church? Faithful or dissident? Law-abiding or criminal?

Heb 13:17 states: “Obey your prelates and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls: that they may do this with joy and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you.”

Rom 16:17,19 states: “***I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them…***your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you”

What kind of Catholic knowingly and obstinately refuses to obey and submit to the lawful prelates of the Church? Is violation of God’s Word any way to worship God?

It is Catholic doctrine that veneration is due to Mary because of the unique role she had as the Mother of our Lord. Is such honor according to Scripture and Tradition? Yes. In St. Luke’s Gospel, an angel addressed Mary as “Hail, Full of Grace.” This is a title of honor given to her by an Angel of the Lord. St. Luke also affirms that her “soul magnifies the greatness of the Lord”, and that “all generations” will call her blessed. Yet, as the Church has consistently affirmed, “Mary should be honoured, but the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost should be adored. Nobody should adore Mary.” [St. Epiphanius (d. 403), *Haer

. 79, 7].

If we truly are brethren of Jesus as we say we are, then we are commanded by God Himself to honor our Mother. Jesus turned to the beloved disciple and said, “Behold, your Mother.” That beloved disciple represents every beloved disciple. She is our Mother. We honor our Mother Mary because such honor is due to her according to God, as taught by Scripture and Tradition in accord with Catholic doctrine, which is binding by the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church (Lumen Gentium) and the Code of Canon Law. The “how” of our veneration is a matter of personal choice, for the most part. Yet, there are Holy Days of Obligation which help us to honor Mary, and these are indeed obligatory.

It would be absurd for me, for example, to claim that “I am Catholic” while at the same time knowingly and obstinately deny Catholic doctrine in defiance of canon law. The people here are trying to teach you what Catholic doctrine affirms, to which every faithful Catholic must also give their religious assent according to the Dogmatic Consitution of the Catholic Church, Lumen Gentium.

We are taught by St. Ignatius Loyola to “think with the Church.” Since you are Catholic, the folks on this forum seem to be trying to help you to also “think with the Church.” That should be the desire of every Catholic who does not want to be dissident or criminal, because as Scripture teaches, we are bound to “listen to the Church” (Matt 18:15ff) precisely because the Church is the “pillar and foundation of truth.” (1 Tim 3:15). If we are to worship God, we cannot simply reject the doctrine of the Church. To do so would be the same as rejecting Christ Himself.

“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” (Luke 10:16)

Thank you Dave and May God’s sweet blessings and grace be with you.

 

[planter654]

ccc 970 It says that Marys function as mother of men in no way OBSECURES OR DIMINISHES this unique mediation of Christ but rather shows its power. This very special devotion DIFFERS essentially from the ADORATION which is given to the incarnate word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit and greatly fosters this adoration. unquote. By her Faith she is a model for the church. She is a Mother to us in the order or Grace. and is the Advocate, helper benefactress and Mediatrix. But it still all goes thru the POWER of Christ. It does not say anywhere in the church that you must go thru her to get to God. It says she can help us, but its not necessary for salvation. Just like the saints can help us. Of course Jesus will listen to his Mother, and Jesus Loves his Mother, But its up to us to go to her for that special Grace only she can help us get. But it is not a must, but in my opinion if you are a Catholic and understand how much she can help you, and how powerful her prayers can be, and you dont ask for help Well (then you are a fool). Its like you can walk to work or drive to work. But as long as you live by Gods commandments and Believe in him you will get there. But why take the hard way. thats the way i see it. Its additional Graces offered to us, but we must ask. And not all people understand and know that we can ask without insulting God. That it is okay. And beings that they dont know this, or dont have the Grace and Wisdom to understand this free gift how can it be held against them. Make any sense?

Yes and thank you and God Bless given with Love!

 

[Gara3987]

I pray to her for her prayers and help, and have a devotion to her, but I really think these saints go too far.

Who are you to say these saints go too far? Are you a saint yourself? If the saints went too far they would not be saints. Ven Mary of Agreda was one who had a revelation from Our Triune Lord God (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost), and Our Blessed Mother. In which Our Lord and Mother revealed to her the true mysteries hidden in the bible (and many things not mentioned in the bible). The Blessed Virgin Mary is in many verses in the OT, for instance Proverbs 8, 22-31.

Lucifer and his followers fear Our Blessed Mother even more than they do God our Father Himself (for there are two sins that I know of that are not forgiven by God, one is disrespect to the Holy Ghost, and the other is disrespect to Our Blessed Mother. From my understanding God who never destroys what He creates, will destroy any fallen angel that dares to speak against Our Mother in any disrespectful manner). For Our Father threatened Lucifer (when Lucifer threatened to destroy His (God’s) plans for us, and to destroy His Daughter, Spouse, and Mother; Mother of the Word. This can be referred to Apoc. chapter 12 (in fact Lucifer already tried to temp Our Blessed Mother to fall and failed {An Interesting Fact: Lucifer also thought that Eve was Our Blessed Mother, and Adam was Christ}, this attempt was to prevent Our Father’s threat [Gen. 3, 15] from coming to be, refer to [Apoc. 12, 5-8]).

We know that God was with Ven. Mary of Agreda and that she truly is a saint, for she is one of the incorruptibles. She has passed away 341 years ago and today if you were to visit her body it looks as if she is merely sleeping. If what she wrote was incorrect and was heretical I don’t think that her body would be uncorrupted, and it would be rotting.



Biblical References
(note; these are from the Douay Rheims which is a direct translation from St. Jerome’s Latin Vulgate)

I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. [Gen. 3, 15]

Apoc. 12, 5-8

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her a thousand two hundred sixty days.

7 And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels:

8 And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven.

It is good that you Pray to the B. V. M.  From what I was taught Our Blessed Mother is our Mediatrix to Our Lord, and Our Lord is our Mediator to Our Father.  Our Mother is a incomprehensible Grace from God to us, for She is very gracious to us, and we must remember that Our Lord will do anything His Mother asks of Him [John 2, 4-11].  (be careful not presume though)

*4* And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? my hour is not yet come. 

*5* His mother saith to the waiters: Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye.

"What is that to me"... These words of our Saviour, spoken to his mother, have been understood by some commentators as harsh, they not considering the next following verse: Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye, which plainly shows that his mother knew of the miracle that he was to perform, and that it was at her request he wrought it; besides the manner of speaking the words as to the tone, and the countenance shown at the same time, which could only be known to those who were present, or from what had followed: for words indicating anger in one tone of voice, would be understood quite the reverse in another.

*6* Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three measures apiece. 


*7* Jesus saith to them: Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. 

*8* And Jesus saith to them: Draw out now, and carry to the chief steward of the feast. And they carried it. 

*9* And when the chief steward had tasted the water made wine, and knew not whence it was, but the waiters knew who had drawn the water; the chief steward calleth the bridegroom, 

*10* And saith to him: Every man at first setteth forth good wine, and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse. But thou hast kept the good wine until now. 
*
11* This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee; and manifested his glory, and his disciples believed in him.

 

[peso73]

"Who are you to say these saints go too far? Are you a saint yourself? If the saints went too far they would not be saints. Ven Mary of Agreda was one who had a revelation from Our Triune Lord God (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost), and Our Blessed Mother. In which Our Lord and Mother revealed to her the true mysteries hidden in the bible (and many things not mentioned in the bible). The Blessed Virgin Mary is in many verses in the OT, for instance Proverbs 8, 22-31.

Lucifer and his followers fear Our Blessed Mother even more than they do God our Father Himself (for there are two sins that I know of that are not forgiven by God, one is disrespect to the Holy Ghost, and the other is disrespect to Our Blessed Mother. From my understanding God who never destroys what He creates, will destroy any fallen angel that dares to speak against Our Mother in any disrespectful manner). For Our Father threatened Lucifer (when Lucifer threatened to destroy His (God’s) plans for us, and to destroy His Daughter, Spouse, and Mother; Mother of the Word. This can be referred to Apoc. chapter 12 (in fact Lucifer already tried to temp Our Blessed Mother to fall and failed {An Interesting Fact: Lucifer also thought that Eve was Our Blessed Mother, and Adam was Christ}, this attempt was to prevent Our Father’s threat [Gen. 3, 15] from coming to be, refer to [Apoc. 12, 5-8]).

We know that God was with Ven. Mary of Agreda and that she truly is a saint, for she is one of the incorruptibles. She has passed away 341 years ago and today if you were to visit her body it looks as if she is merely sleeping. If what she wrote was incorrect and was heretical I don’t think that her body would be uncorrupted, and it would be rotting.

It is good that you Pray to the B. V. M. From what I was taught Our Blessed Mother is our Mediatrix to Our Lord, and Our Lord is our Mediator to Our Father. Our Mother is a incomprehensible Grace from God to us, for She is very gracious to us, and we must remember that Our Lord will do anything His Mother asks of Him [John 2, 4-11]. (be careful not presume though)"

~ Well, yes I am a saint, in the biblical sense, and where do you get that there are 2 unforgiveable sins?

and how do you know Lucifer thought Adam and Eve were Christ and the Blessed Virgin? Is this from the incorruptable saint’s visions? And not to pick on her, I am sure she was/is a saint in Heaven, but I noticed you refer to her as the Venerable Mary of Agreda, so apparantly she is not canonized even after over 300 years…I don’t know her writings, nor have I heard of her until now I admit, but as earlier posts have stated, even the earthly writings of a canonized saint are not infallible doctrine, didn’t St. Augustine teach predestination, a thing the church teaches is NOT the case? So, my thing is, I love our blessed mother and I believe God used her to bring me to Christ in my personal faith journey, but I am responding to the O.P., that claims you cannot be saved without having a devotion to Mary.
Christ is our salvation, and though it is true that our Father in heaven used Mary to bring His Son to the world, and without her, or if she had said no instead of yes, who knows? She played a necessary part in salvation history, bringing us her son, the Lord Jesus, but it is through Him, with Him and in Him that we are saved, and to claim no one could be saved without a devotion to the most holy Theotokos is not church teaching.

 

[peso73]

I am sorry Planter, but your posts’ style remind me of the Dr. Brommer soap wrappers!
I am sorry! Does anyone else notice the similarity?
I don’t mean to be mean, I just couldn’t help voicing the observation, as it is so funny to me…after all, I’m no saint, right, Gara?

 

[nilofc]

See i agree with everything you are saying to a point, let me explain i have been Catholic all of my life, My dad has done novenas, he just left this world 4 weeks ago and the day before his death is was saying the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy, my whole life he said when you are hurting got to the Blessed Mother no one suffered or understands suffering like her, she saw her own son crucified, she will go with you to Jesus, she will pray for you. In Job yes it says God listens to the prayers of the just. I understand what you are saying, i believe every word, BUT and this is the problem you cant see. what you are saying doesnt come to everyone it is called Faith, It is a gift from God. People dont see that, I KNOW if you pray special prayers Mary promises us she will be with us at our time of death. That is what is getting me thru my Fathers death at this time. I know his 82 years of prayers and living the faith got him a pass straight to the top. but like he told me this is a Gift of Grace not all will see. its not given to all. few are chosen, but see my point is that this grace is impossible to explain, and we still have to God, Mary goes with us to God, helps us get there, but to those who dont have the additional grace can still get there, do you see what i am saying, Its like going to court with good representive or going alone. The judge still has the last call. see what i mean?

Sorry to hear about your father. Do not forget not to tire out in praying for his soul. He maybe a devout man but we have to make sure he gets to heaven by our prayers (I am saying this because I have seen so many funeral canonization and because of that they forget to pray for the soul of the person).

I fully agree in what you are saying regarding the grace of faith. I really admire a man so pious and dedicated in honoring the greatest creation of God. In my own experience, there were too many times that our Mother has brought me to her Son when I needed Him most. Too many times and too odd to say it was a coincidence.

Anyway, the way to get this grace for sure…is to say the rosary everyday. And every start of the mystery, we should ask for it. Humility, wisdom and understanding.

CCC says that Humility is the foundation of prayer. After it… you can ask for more graces and Jesus and Mary will never be outdone in generosity.

 

[nilofc]

John Martignoni once said…it is better to explain the faith to Non-Catholics than to Cafeteria Catholics.

Anyway, in the spirit of charity, we hope and pray that you will fully embrace the teaching magisterium of the Church.

And if I may, there is a fifth visible sign of the Church besides being One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic.

…and that is… the Church is “Marian”.

The likes of Dr. Scott Hahn amd Dr. Miravalle can explain it better than me.

Open Forum

 

[rinnie]

Sorry to hear about your father. Do not forget not to tire out in praying for his soul. He maybe a devout man but we have to make sure he gets to heaven by our prayers (I am saying this because I have seen so many funeral canonization and because of that they forget to pray for the soul of the person).

I fully agree in what you are saying regarding the grace of faith. I really admire a man so pious and dedicated in honoring the greatest creation of God. In my own experience, there were too many times that our Mother has brought me to her Son when I needed Him most. Too many times and too odd to say it was a coincidence.

Anyway, the way to get this grace for sure…is to say the rosary everyday. And every start of the mystery, we should ask for it. Humility, wisdom and understanding.

CCC says that Humility is the foundation of prayer. After it… you can ask for more graces and Jesus and Mary will never be outdone in generosity.

Thank-you so much for that. You made my day and oh Yes I pray every day for him and my brother. I know they are together, but they still need prayers. My Mom and Dad has had a mass a month at least for 4 years since my brother has been gone. I already have 5 scheduled myself for Daddy, and my bro. And Dad has only been gone a month. But yes Daddy prayed for Joey (my brother) every single day. the first thing he did was his prayers, and then his certain novenas. I got his bible now and his prayers and i will continue, Im just not as dedicated as him, but i need to do like him, and get a set schedule. but i will. Thankyou so much though and any prayers you would offer i would appreciate very much. God Bless You for being so kind.

 

[Lhhs]

fatimaradio.org/india08/en/bio/fpp.html

The title of this thread rang a bell when I saw it. I just happened across a talk online by this title recently

 

[Gara3987]

~ Well, yes I am a saint, in the biblical sense, and where do you get that there are 2 unforgiveable sins?

and … teaching.

To be Honest the two unforgivable sins I was taught as a youngster, Some saints explain it, one of which was Saint Louis de Montfort. Another source came from actual exorcisms, where demons actually were forced to admit it by God.

As for Lucifer mistaking Adam and Eve for Christ and His Mother, that was revealed to Ven Mary of Agreda, by God Himself. From The Mystical City of God.

**~ How Ciudad de Dios was received ~

** As soon as the “City of God” appeared in print it was welcomed and extolled as a most wonderful work. The different translations found no less enthusiastic welcome in nearly all the European countries. It secured the immediate approbation and encomium of the ordinaries, the universities, the learned and the eminent men of christendom. There is probably no other book which was so closely scrutinized by those authority, both civil and religious, and afterwards so signally approved as the “City of God.” By order of Innocent XI., Alexander VIII., Clement IX., Benedict XIII., and Benedict XIV. it was repeatedly subjected to the closest scrutiny and declared authentic, worthy of devout perusal and free from error. The title “Venerabilis” was conferred upon the author. A large sized volume would be required to record the praises and commendation written in favor of the great "City of God."

“To be devout to thee, O Blessed Virgin, is a weapon of salvation God gives to those He wants to save.”
** St. John Damascene**

"In the chronicles of St. Francis of Assisi it is related that in an ecstasy he was shown a latter that reached into heaven. Our Blessed Mother was on top of this latter. And St. Francis was told that one had to go through her to enter into eternal bliss.

And the Chronicles of St. Dominic it is related that once, near the city of Carcassonne, while preaching the Rosary, he came upon a heretic possessed by fifteen thousand devils. These wicked spirits, at the command of the Blessed Virgin, confessed many great and consoling truths about the Rosary and about devotion to the Queen of Heaven. And though they were thrown into confusion and fury by the Virgin’s demands, they so praised devotion to her that anyone who loves her at all must shed tears of joy.

Since, then, devotion to Mary is essential to eternal salvation, it is ever more necessary to those called to a particular or special perfection; and I cannot see how one could acquire intimate union with Our Lord and perfect fidelity to the Holy Ghost without acquiring a very great union with Mary and a great dependence on her…

To Mary God alone gave the keys of the cellars of divine love. To Mary alone He gave the power to enter into the most sublime and the most secret ways of perfection. To Mary alone He gave the power to lead others along those paths. It is Mary alone who welcomes those miserable children of the faithless Eve into the earthy paradise where they may walk in all pleasure with God; where they may safely hide from there enemies; where they may delight in the fruits of the Tree of Life (The Blessed Virgin), and of “the tree of knowledge of good and evil”; where they may drink all they wish of the bountiful and beautiful fountains; and where they will have no more fear of death.

She herself, is the earthly paradise, this blessed and virgin land, out of which the sinners, Adam and Eve, have been driven. She invites there only those she wants, that she may make saints of them.

Throughout the ages, and especially toward the end of the world, the greatest saints will be those most zealous in praying to Mary, and in having her always present as a model to imitate and as a powerful ruler to protect them.

I say this will happen especially toward the end of the world - and this soon - because the Most High with His holy Mother will form great saints for Himself, saints who will tower in holiness over other saints even as the cedars of Lebanon tower over little bushes. This has been revealed to a holy soul.

These great saints will be chosen to fight against the enemies of God pressing on from all sides. They will be singularly devoted to the Blessed Virgin. They will be illumined by her light. They will be fed by her milk. They will be led by her spirit. They will be supported by her arm. They will be constantly under her protection, so that they will fight with one hand and build with the other.

With one One hand they will overthrow and crush heresies, schisms, idolatries, and impieties. With the other they will erect the temple of the true Solomon, the mystical city of God - **meaning the Virgin Mother, who is called both the temple of Solomon and the city of God.

**By word and example, these tremendous ones will draw the world toward true devotion to Mary. This will bring them many enemies, but it will bring them many victories, too. And much glory for God!

**This is what was revealed to St. Vincent Ferrer, the great apostle of his age. This is what the Holy Ghost seems to have foretold in the 58th Psalm: “And they shall know that God will rule Jacob and all the ends of the earth; they shall return at evening and shall suffer hunger like dogs and shall go round about the city.” The city around which men will circle at the end of the world, to be converted and to satisfy their hunger for justice, is Mary, “the city of God.”

**And in souls she and her Son are more glorified than in all visible creatures; so that, with the saints, we may call her the Queen of All Hearts!"

Quoted from : Saint Louis de Montfort
​

 

[igator99]

This an exhortation to anyone who would wish to be saved.

“All gifts, virtues, and graces of the Holy Ghost are administered by the hands of Mary to whomsoever she desires, when she desires, in the maner she desires, and to whatever degree she desires. Mary is the dispensatrix of all the graces God bestows. Every grace granted to man in this life has three successive steps: from God it comes to Christ, and from Christ to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us.”
ST. BERNARDINE OF SIENNA

“Every grace which is communicated has a three-fold origin: it flows from God to Christ, from Christ to the Virgin, and from the Virgin to us.”
POPE LEO XIII

“Mary has the greatest and clearest claims to our homage and praise: she is the salvation of the world; our dependence upon the august Mary is complete and universal. There is neither on earth nor in Heaven any justified soul, any one of the Elect, who does not owe Mary his justice and his glory.”
VEN. WILLIAM JOSEPH CHAMINADE

“Many have proved invincibly, from the sentiments of the Fathers -
among others: St. Augustine, St. Ephrem, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Germanus of Constantinople, St. John Damascene, St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine, St. Thomas, and St. Bonaventure - that devotion to Our Most Blessed Virgin is necessary for salvation, and that it is an infallible mark of reprobation to have no esteem or love for the Holy Virgin while,
on the other hand, it is an infallible mark of predestination to be entirely and truly devoted to her.”
ST. LOUIS MARIE DE MONTFORT

“Mary is the whole hope of our salvation.”
ST. THOMAS AQUINAS

“If our life were not under the protection of Mary, we might tremble for our perseverance and salvation. In her hands Jesus has placed His almighty power in the order of salvation. All the graces of salvation, both the natural and the spiritual, will be given to us by Mary.”
ST. PETER JULIAN EYMARD

“The Child is not found without Mary, His Mother. If, then it is impossible to separate what God has united, it is also certain that you cannot find Jesus except with Mary and through Mary.”
POPE ST. PIUS X

“If you persevere till death in true devotion to Mary, your salvation is certain.”
ST. LOUIS MARIE DE MONTFORT

“In the multitude of the Elect she shall have praise, and among the blessed she shall be blessed.”
ECCLESIASTICUS 24:4

“Christ entrusted to His Mother’s maternal care the mission of making the Church a single family. Yes, in Mary we have the bond of communion for all of us who, through Faith and Baptism, are disciples and brothers of Jesus.”
POPE JOHN PAUL II

“However great a sinner may have been, if he shows himself devout to Mary he will never perish.”
ST. HILARY OF POITIERS

“He who is devout to the Virgin Mother will certainly never be lost.”
ST IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH

“The servants of Mary are as certain of getting to Paradise as though they were already there. Who are they who are saved, and reign in Heaven? Surely, those for whom the Queen of Mercy intercedes. The clients of Mary will necessarily be saved.”
ST ALPHONSUS MARIA LIGUORI

So when we ask for grace we should pray to Mary?

 

[Roy5]

This whole notion of “our devotion to Our Lady is necessary to salvation” is not substantiated by anything in scripture.

 Christ never stated that. Indeed, in his two encounters with his mother found in scripture, between his birth and death, he actually seems a bit dismissive of his mother.

  Paul in all of his letters, the oldest part of the New Testament as far as we can tell, never once mentions Mary. If she was to play such a central role in Christian doctrine, why did he ignore her altogether?

  Mary is to be admired, of course, but efforts to magnify her beyond her important role as Mother of Christ is wrong and alienates many who feel that it is paganish.

 

[nilofc]

This whole notion of “our devotion to Our Lady is necessary to salvation” is not substantiated by anything in scripture.

 Christ never stated that. Indeed, in his two encounters with his mother found in scripture, between his birth and death, he actually seems a bit dismissive of his mother.

  Paul in all of his letters, the oldest part of the New Testament as far as we can tell, never once mentions Mary. If she was to play such a central role in Christian doctrine, why did he ignore her altogether?

  Mary is to be admired, of course, but efforts to magnify her beyond her important role as Mother of Christ is wrong and alienates many who feel that it is paganish.

Typical protestant line.

Not everything is in the bible. Christ established and commanded the apostles to preach the gospel, not write a book. But they did write which is good, because St. Paul told us to hold fast to written and oral traditions. Even the bible says that everything that Jesus did is not written down.

You seem haven’t grasped the true meaning of the two incidents that you thought that Christ was dismissive of his mother.

(1) The wedding at Cana…“Woman, What is it to you and me?”

Jesus called his mother woman…why? Because she is the new Eve. Before the fall, Eve was always called “woman”, she was called Eve only when she sinned. Mary never sinned, that’s why Jesus always called her woman. Even at the foot of the foot of the cross.

If Jesus is somehow disrespectful of his mother, then why did he do the miracle that Mother Mary requested of him?

(2) Who is my mother and who are my brothers?..For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother

You have to read this in a different light not how the world reads this. Jesus was actually affirming Mary’s spiritual motherly role. Jesus affirms his relationship with Mary more than blood ties but trascends to spiritual. We know that Mary does the will of the Father, we see this in her fiat.

So you see… you have to grasp the context of the story otherwise you’d miss the point.

Jesus came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it in a perfect way.
The first law on human relations is to honor our mother and father.

“Honor” in Hebrew is “Kaboda”- which literally means, to bestow Glory.

The second point is…we are called to imitate Christ.

So we are called to bestow glory to Mary, the kind of glory that Jesus Christ bestowed on her. Otherwise, you are not imitating Christ.

…I hope this will shed a light on your path.

 

[nilofc]

So when we ask for grace we should pray to Mary?

It’s better that way. Because the efficacious prayer of a righteous person is powerful.

Jesus is the only mediator to the Father. But we must remember that Jesus is not only the Son of God…but also …God the Son.

In my humble opinion, it is better to bring your offerings to His mother and ask her to give it to her Son, for Jesus will never refuse His mother. This is subordinate mediation.

Mother Mary will give you the graces you need to be closer to her Son.

… or… you can always go straight to God by yourself. Present yourself and your dirty linen and ask for graces.

But I always prefer asking for the help of His saints and His loving mother. We are a family…they will always help us… just ask for it. Communion of Saints.

 

[Gara3987]

It’s better that way. Because the efficacious prayer of a righteous person is powerful.

Jesus is the only mediator to the Father. But we must remember that Jesus is not only the Son of God…but also …God the Son.

In my humble opinion, it is better to bring your offerings to His mother and ask her to give it to her Son, for Jesus will never refuse His mother. This is subordinate mediation.

Mother Mary will give you the graces you need to be closer to her Son.

… or… you can always go straight to God by yourself. Present yourself and your dirty linen and ask for graces.

But I always prefer asking for the help of His saints and His loving mother. We are a family…they will always help us… just ask for it. Communion of Saints.

That is a great post, St. Louis de Montfort also explains it in this manner:

"The Holy Ghost wants to form His elect in Mary and through her. “Send the roots of all your virtues deep into My chosen ones, My beloved, My spouse,” He says to her, in effect, “so that they may grow from virtue to virtue and from grace to grace. I was well pleased with you when you practiced the most sublime virtues on earth. Therefore I desire to keep you still on earth - though you remain in heaven. Reproduce yourself in My elect. Let Me be well pleased in them. Let Me see in them the roots of your unshakable faith, of your deep humility, of your constant self-denial, of your sublime spirit of prayer, of your burning charity, of your firm hope, of all your virtues. You are still My spouse, as faithful, as pure, and as fruitful as ever. Let your faith give Me faithful ones, your purity virgins, your fruitfulness My temples and My elect.”

When Mary has planted her roots in a soul she works the wonders of grace that she alone can produce, because she never had, and never will have, an equal in fruitfulness and purity. With the Holy Ghost, she can produce the greatest thing that ever was and ever will be, a God-man. And consequently she will produce the greatest things of future times - the great saints **who will come toward the end of the world. No other than this unique and wondrous virgin can produce, in union with the Holy Ghost, such unique and and wondrous things.

When the Holy Ghost finds His spouse in a soul He flies there. He enters there in His fullness. He fills that soul completely, according as it leaves room to His spouse. One of the main reasons why He does not work marvels in souls is that He does not find in them a sufficient union with His faithful and inseparable spouse. I say “His inseparable spouse,” because He, the Substantial Love of the Father and the Son, has never taken leave of Mary since He espoused her; the reason is: she has always been faithful and fruitful.**

It is Mary alone who found grace before God without the help of any other mere creature. It is through Mary alone that all those who found grace before God - after her - have found it. It is through Mary alone that future souls will find that grace. She was full of grace when the Archangel Gabriel hailed her [Luke 1, 28]. She was abundantly filled with grace when the Holy Ghost overshadowed her. And from day to day, from moment to moment, she has increased this double-fullness of grace.

Thus she has reached a height of grace beyond all human thought or notion. She is not only the treasurer of God’s treasures, she is the only dispenser of them. She can ennoble, exalt, and enrich whom she wills. She can lead them into the narrow way to heaven. She can conduct them through the narrow door of life, in spite of all obstacles. And she can give them the throne, the scepter, and the kingly crown!

Jesus is everywhere and always, the Son and the Fruit of Mary. Mary is, everywhere and always, the tree that bears the Fruit of Life, the true Mother that produced It."

 

[peso73]

John Martignoni once said…it is better to explain the faith to Non-Catholics than to Cafeteria Catholics.

Anyway, in the spirit of charity, we hope and pray that you will fully embrace the teaching magisterium of the Church.

And if I may, there is a fifth visible sign of the Church besides being One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic.

…and that is… the Church is “Marian”.

The likes of Dr. Scott Hahn amd Dr. Miravalle can explain it better than me.

Open Forum

So who are you calling a cafeteria catholic?

And although I agree the church is Marian in a sense, are you saying we are Marians before we are Christians?
…and all of you who are backing the veracity of the O.P. claim, do you then believe only Catholic Christians (or are we Marians?) with personal devotions to the B.V.M. are going to Heaven, and the rest of the world to Hell?

 

[nilofc]

So who are you calling a cafeteria catholic?
And although I agree the church is Marian in a sense, are you saying we are Marians before we are Christians?

Did I say that?

…and all of you who are backing the veracity of the O.P. claim, do you then believe only Catholic Christians (or are we Marians?) with personal devotions to the B.V.M. are going to Heaven, and the rest of the world to Hell?

Cafeteria Catholics - Catholics who picks and chooses what Church teachings they will hold as their belief. Disregards some teachings which does not conform to their agenda.

True Christians are Marians for how can you separate Mary from Christ? We are not condemning anyone to hell…that will be a sin against charity.

But you might want to take that up with the saints, the Popes and the Doctors of the Church, as well as the Church.

 

[rinnie]

You know here is something i never understood, i have a cousin who reads the bible everyday and has no idea what she is talking about God bless her, but here is an example. She fights with me because i light candles and pray to saint Jude, Joseph, And Blessed Mother to help me and my family everyday. Now she said i can pray to my dead saints everyday it wont help they are dead, then i say , well see Catholics dont believe in death we believe Jesus took it away when he died on the Cross. She says you can only pray to God i explain intercession, well im going to hell then. Then a week later she says her mom is looking down on her and helping her. Now why is her mom not dead but my Saints are. Then she says God only answers your prayers if you ask him and pray to him you dont need anyone else. he wont listen. then shes call a week later and asks me to pray for her. See what i mean? I said to her one day, think of this just for a minute do you really think that when i die and I meet God that he is going to say, oh no. You are going to Hell because you respected my Mother and Honored her. She said Yes. But shes knows that she is going to heaven, its just a shame Catholics dont believe that she said, I said another words you can break every commandment in the book but as long as you believe in God you are going to heaven. She said yes. Oh she said also you are going to hell for going to confession, we are putting a priest before God. When i ask her about Peter getting the CHurch all of that,( the gospel) shes says thats not what it means. I say okay what does it mean. She said I dont know but not that. Your Pope is just telling you that. He is brainwashing me. Go figure? I say okay who do you follow what church, she said she follows herself no Man. I said i do his name is Jesus Christ. She thinks God wants her to give her testimony and teach everyone religion. she knows this is big and going to happen to her.

 

[Freshman88]

Father Perez found on that Fatima link is simply amazing. Thanks