Did God commit a sin of omission by creating people with free will knowing they would bring evil to the world?

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Ben_Sinner

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According to the CCC God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil. He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it.

I understand that evil doesn’t exist, so it would be impossible for God to create it or even indirectly create it.

My question is reflecting more on what God DIDN’T do instead of what he did. This is a question of a potential sin of omission on God’s part.

-Evil is the absence of Good

-God intentionally created man with free will knowing man would display an absence of good, even though God didn’t will man disobey.

-Whether God likes it or not, he is a contributor to a display of the absence of good taking place, since this wouldn’t have happened if he wouldn’t have made man with free will.

-God, indirectly, has committed a sin of omission due to this absence of good happening due to his negligence by creating man with the ability to sin.

-Thus God is not All-Loving

How do we prove this assertion wrong?
 
Did God commit a sin of omission by creating people with free will knowing they would bring evil to the world?

No.

God does not and cannot sin.

All that God made was* good.*

Free will was part of creation of Man - and the Angels - so they can love.
 
Ben_Sinner said:
According to the CCC God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil. He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it.

I understand that evil doesn’t exist, so it would be impossible for God to create it or even indirectly create it.

My question is reflecting more on what God DIDN’T do instead of what he did. This is a question of a potential sin of omission on God’s part.

-Evil is the absence of Good

-God intentionally created man with free will knowing man would display an absence of good, even though God didn’t will man disobey.

-Whether God likes it or not, he is a contributor to a display of the absence of good taking place, since this wouldn’t have happened if he wouldn’t have made man with free will.

-God, indirectly, has committed a sin of omission due to this absence of good happening due to his negligence by creating man with the ability to sin.

-Thus God is not All-Loving

How do we prove this assertion wrong?
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Simple by explaining it exactly as the Church teaches as you quoted. You are stating because God gave free will it was some how a guarantee to sin. That is not true. But God takes a evil created by Man and still turns it into some kind of good. Which is pretty much the opposite of what you say.

God gave us free will to use it to serve him freely not to sin. So you would have to prove God gave us free will to use it to sin, for anything you have said to be proven correct. And you cannot do so because it is not a truth.

God is all-loving which is the reason he gave us free will, he loved us enough to set us free and give us the choice to love he freely.
 
Bookcat said:
Did God commit a sin of omission by creating people with free will knowing they would bring evil to the world?

No.

God does not and cannot sin.

All that God made was* good.*

Free will was part of creation of Man - and the Angels - so they can love.
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This. God cannot sin. Full stop.
 
Bookcat said:
Did God commit a sin of omission by creating people with free will knowing they would bring evil to the world?

No.

God does not and cannot sin.

All that God made was* good.*

Free will was part of creation of Man - and the Angels - so they can love.
Click to expand...
I think he is making a good point. Suppose that you are going to have a kid. Suppose also that you know that your kid put an end on humanity once he grew up enough. Are you going to have this kid? Is having this kid good?
 
STT said:
I think he is making a good point. Suppose that you are going to have a kid. Suppose also that you know that your kid put an end on humanity once he grew up enough. Are you going to have this kid? Is having this kid good?
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No it is not a good point. God, as God, can only be good.

Your analogy cannot apply to God.
 
STT said:
I think he is making a good point. Suppose that you are going to have a kid. Suppose also that you know that your kid put an end on humanity once he grew up enough. Are you going to have this kid? Is having this kid good?
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God has a Son. His name is Jesus Christ.

Stt did you know that?
 
STT said:
Yes, I know that but that has no relation with the point that I am making.
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Best , for us following along at home, that you state your point . Are you saying that some poor woman is going to birth the antichrist, and if she knew that , she should live a life of chastity?
 
I too have had some sort of manifestation of why god gave us free. One day, a number of years ago I have a conversation with a priest about this very topic. Eventually we settled on the following:

Suppose you’re on a tall hillside an we are looking down and see two cars speeding towards each other and swerving all over the road. From where we sit either there is going to be an accident.

Probability:

the cars slow down and pass safely. The cars continue at the speed they are going and either miss each other, or hit and a terrible accident happens.

The first accounts for safety, the second for recklessness, and the third death.

With free will there is nothing we can to stop this from unfolding. Free will gives us the opportunity to correct our actions before a final action can happen.

God gives us the free will of action that we use for good or not for good. Our destinity is in our hands and God give us the tools but we must make the choises.
 
STT said:
I think he is making a good point. Suppose that you are going to have a kid. Suppose also that you know that your kid put an end on humanity once he grew up enough. Are you going to have this kid? Is having this kid good?
Click to expand...
Although God did not consult us before giving us life, our human destiny is conditional to whether we respond to divine grace.

Still, a child (kid) doesn’t just come out of the womb intending to put an end to humanity - which is what can be inferred from your analogy. Who and what we become as we grow and the decisions we make are largely affected by those around us, our parents,family, friends, our upbringing, what we read, hear, see; what we believe ; our personal experiences with others.

So your question would have to apply equally to an ever-expanding subject base, ie

Is having this kid good ?

Was allowing this kid’s parents to be born (or meet & marry) good ?

Was allowing the kid’s teacher to be born good ?

Was allowing MSM to distort the truth this kid would hear or read good ?

Was allowing this kid’s friend - a friend who would hurt him/her, to be born good ?

. . . etc . . .

The assertion that God is not All-Loving would necessarily have to deny the fact that God, in His infinite humility, was willing to and did, become a man and die on a Cross out of love for each one of us.
As fellow members have already posted:** God cannot sin**. So a certain amount of absurdity should become apparent in any claim to the contrary.

Within the context of the assertion
My question is reflecting more on what God DIDN’T do instead of what he did. This is a question of a potential sin of omission on God’s part.
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  • the Assertion that God is not All-Loving also becomes an assertion that God would somehow need to evolve . . . all leads to the same thing : The error of claiming that either God is not God, or God does not exist.
Regarding this part -
-God, indirectly, has committed a sin of omission due to this absence of good happening due to his negligence by creating man with the ability to sin.
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Again, “indirectly” committing a sin implies God is not omniscient; therefore not God.

Perhaps It might be a good idea to brush up on the definition of sin first, before making such an assertion ? In humanity, original sin deprives us all of the beatific vision. In the angelic realm , the fallen angels are also deprived of the beatific vision. So claiming God has sinned would imply that God wouldn’t be/isn’t able to see Himself (or that “indirectly” . . . 😉 ] if He can see Himself , He at least needs a very strong pair of glasses in able to do so clearly).

Quite a proposition . . .that God sinned even before man did . . .but the good angels never sinned - only God did. . . .:hmmm:

And if we factor into consideration a divine ordering of secondary causes , the proposition would have to admit that God not only sinned, but that God is forever sinning.
 
Its like saying because Ford made a car and I run you over with my car we blame Ford.
Its like saying because a farmer has cows and you kid eats it and is fat you blame the farmer.
Its like saying if your kid becomes a killer you should have aborted that kid in the first place.

This is becoming a joke. And sometimes in this world it is with this thinking people truly are winning cases. If I give you a beer and you kill someone sue me because I gave you a beer.

Its putting your sin on someone else. Thats what this thread is trying to do. Saying because God gave us free will to do what we want, God is a fault. Then you will have to take all of the people in prison and also put in their families.

And if your Son is a thief the Father is a thief. ETC. If we sin we turn the sin over to the Father. Sorry to tell you but Adam already tried this and he failed. Here is your answer using the word of God.

Adam and Eve knew not to eat the Apple. They hid from God. Here is how it went down, God said Adam why are you hiding, Adam said EVE made me eat the Apple, God said no deal, Eve said the Devil made me do it, God said no deal. Then Adam did exactly what this thread is trying to do, where the answer lies, Adam said if you would have never given me the woman I would have never sinned. God said no deal. you are responsible for the free will you were given, you sinned and you will be punished. Case Closed.

God felt no responsibility for our choices in life, just as when we are at the given age cannot blame our earthly fathers.
 
I think the responses above explain why the answer is “no”. The question got me thinking about our plight. While a contradiction in terms, I tried to imagine some “real-life” examples of where this sort of thinking might lead. For perhaps a dramatic, but not uncommon case, how about:

One wakes up hung-over, cringing at the vague recollections of the night before, in a different, sheepish frame of mind, rather than the ranting victim of the night before. Imagining the wife with the morning paper and coffee, her face, stone-cold in anger and disappointment, the unease is morphed into fearful resentment, by the the unfairness of life. God created not only wine but oneself. What gifts He has bestowed, go unappreciated by others, and unfulled by society. The wife whom he has chosen and must be placated, is nowhere close to the doting phantoms that inhabit and provide comfort in the wishes of masturbatory fantasy. Self-pity and the projection rule the day, now quietly, as they had roared, hours earlier.

We are called to rise above ourselves, we who chose to be gods against the will of a God who then emptied and subjected Himself to our will, coming down to meet us to bring us back to where we were meant to be, in heaven. Given our original choice, we who drive the spike into the hand that reaches out to appropriate what belongs to God, have only one way to go. Paraphrasing Peter, it was with the precious blood of the Lamb without blemish or spot, who was known before the foundation of the world, and revealed in Jesus Christ, that we are redeemed and saved.
 
STT said:
I think he is making a good point. Suppose that you are going to have a kid. Suppose also that you know that your kid put an end on humanity once he grew up enough. Are you going to have this kid? Is having this kid good?
Click to expand...
While I am no Theologian, this question from people is always the same issue. God doesn’t exist “in our time”; he exists outside it, so his view on our actions is not like ours. He gives us a time-frame to make decisions in; the fact we cannot see the result of our decisions in no way invalidates His creation of a “vessel” if you will of space-time for us.

(Rough analogy) God is like a chemist with perfect foreknowledge. He sets up an experiment with water at effectively frozen temperature, and already knows what the outcome of every bit of it will be if he puts a touch of ice into it, kicking off a wave of crystallization action through the water, moving it from a state of molecules moving until each one, “decides” how it is going to fall into the crystal structure. To the chemist (God) the action is effectively instant; to the molecules i.e. people who measure time in nanoseconds, the process is unclear and seems to slowly take place as they “make decisions” affecting the final outcome. The “miraculous” part is God grants us free will, despite our being bound in physical forms which are more deterministic in nature. Ultimately, a belief in free will is something you either have faith in or you don’t, as something ultimately miraculous, or you think the entire Universe is just one big chemical pachinko machine where all the forces acting on the ball at the beginning ultimately determine its outcome as it falls.

A skeptical person who believes only in a materialist, determinism perspective on reality cannot accept the miracle of free will and therefore perceives (not “sees” as they really can’t say for sure) contradictions in any Divine awareness or involvement, effectively trying to cast God in the same mold as a human being.

Islam and Judaism to a great extent have the same issues, trying to put limits on the concept of God that fit into what amounts to the same problem, i.e. how can “1” in any way equal “3”? The mathematical analogy of the Trinity is not “1+1+1 = 3” as per those faiths, it is “1x1x1 = 1” due to what we believe the nature of the Trinity is, which is still monotheistic and therefore invalidates claims that Christianity is polytheistic; nothing could be further from the truth.
 
Roseeurekacross said:
Best , for us following along at home, that you state your point . Are you saying that some poor woman is going to birth the antichrist, and if she knew that , she should live a life of chastity?
Click to expand...
Yes, she should live a life of chastity.
 
STT said:
Yes, she should live a life of chastity.
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And what if another of her children were to find a cure for cancer, world poverty, this current scourge of ICE, stop ISIS in its tracks.

Arent you proposing what goes against Biblical and thus, our Catholic teaching - seeing into, by some form of divination, and attempting to impact future events ?
Are you proposing some form of Heresy?
 
DaddyGirl said:
I understand what you are saying, but…this would not be considered a “sin of omission” as that phrase and meaning is defined, I don’t think.
He’s not “omitting” anything.
After all, he allowed and expected evil/disobedience. He made it possible.

And since he not only gave free will, but* created *humans completely–and in his own image, I might add–one may go so far as to say he encouraged or wanted the above.
He could have created humans, gave them free will, but made evil impossible.

So…if god cannot sin or be evil or make mistakes, yet humans are flawed and sinners and do this all the time…I don’t see how people are so much made in his image?

.
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How do you define image. Wasn’t that his human image. God is human and Divine. I do not see where God created humans, human and Divine. I believe image was in our looks.
 
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