Did God Create the Best Possible Universe?

[Tom_Baum]

If there were no afterlife it wouldn’t make sense to believe in social justice. In this life there is no answer to the bomb or the bullet. The law of the jungle would prevail…

If the only reason one believes in “social justice” is to get a “reward” in the afterlife, as opposed to doing the right thing for the simple reason that it is the right thing to do, than it seems that Jesus spoke to quite a few brick walls over the years from the time that He walked on this planet right up until now.

There are many who do NOT believe in an afterlife that DO believe in social justice, by social justice, I mean being a decent human being, maybe not perfect but decent.

Many people’s idea of “justice” seems to have little to nothing to do with justice but is more in line with blood-sucking revenge and/or a cold-hearted holier than thou condemnation.

Thank God that not all have this “idea of justice”.

 

[arte]

If there were no afterlife it wouldn’t make sense to believe in social justice. In this life there is no answer to the bomb or the bullet. The law of the jungle would prevail…

Atheists do not believe in an afterlife yet they believe in social justice. If there was no afterlife, it would make more sense to believe in social justice because this is the only life you’re going to get so we had better make it as best as possible. If there was no afterlife, suicide bombers could not look forward to an afterlife with 72 virgins. Why anyone would want 72 “mother-in-laws” anyway completely escapes me.

 

[tonyrey]

Atheists do not believe in an afterlife yet they believe in social justice. If there was no afterlife, it would make more sense to believe in social justice because this is the only life you’re going to get so we had better make it as best as possible. If there was no afterlife, suicide bombers could not look forward to an afterlife with 72 virgins. Why anyone would want 72 “mother-in-laws” anyway completely escapes me.

They believe in social justice but there would be no reason why they should if this were the only life. Many people exploit others without being punished and they get away with it. They regard justice as nothing more than a human idea they can ignore when it suits them. They would never sacrifice their life for others because it is sheer lunacy from a worldly point of view. They think it is better to make t**heir **life the best possible. If it’s the only one they have why waste it? The law of the jungle is the only one that counts in a Godless world - as we see all around us. Money is the Big Boss!

 

[tonyrey]

If the only reason one believes in “social justice” is to get a “reward” in the afterlife, as opposed to doing the right thing for the simple reason that it is the right thing to do, than it seems that Jesus spoke to quite a few brick walls over the years from the time that He walked on this planet right up until now.

It is not the only reason. It is unChristian to believe Jesus told us to love others solely because we shall go to heaven if we do. He told us we should be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect. Love is its own reward **here and now **not in a distant future.

There are many who do NOT believe in an afterlife that DO believe in social justice, by social justice, I mean being a decent human being, maybe not perfect but decent.

Of course they do but if we exist by chance there is no logical reason why they should. In a Godless world nothing matters because everything is absurd and meaningless.

Many people’s idea of “justice” seems to have little to nothing to do with justice but is more in line with blood-sucking revenge and/or a cold-hearted holier than thou condemnation. Thank God that not all have this “idea of justice”.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees precisely because they had a distorted view of God as a Judge who is only interested in how many laws we break…

 

[tonyrey]

Bear with me for a moment, I’m no philosopher! But I do have an armchair, so I suppose that earns me the right to wax armchair-philosophical for a minute!

I posit that God has in fact only created the worlds which currently exist, and has never created and destroyed any worlds before hand.

First, if God is all-knowing, then God knows the results of His actions before He takes them. Thus, God does not have need of creating a world simply for the sake of learning or discovering what the results of it would be.

Second, the actions of all beings tend toward their needs. Yet we know that God has no needs and therefore no motivation to take such an action as to create another world.

Someone may object, saying that God did choose to create at least one other world for the sake of manifesting His omnipotence to some existing being, for the benefit of that being. I say, God has already revealed His glory in varying degrees in all of the worlds that we already know of, with Heaven being the ultimate manifestation of His Glory. Therefore it is sufficient to reveal a portion of Heaven to that being to manifest His Glory to that being for its spiritual benefit.

It seems odd that the Creator would have no need to create! The essence of love is its fertility, creativity and willingness to share with others. A God without children would be the antithesis of Christianity. …

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Originally Posted by **Charlemagne III **
We really don’t know how many worlds God has created.

That’s like saying, fifteen hundred years ago, the Jews did not know America existed.

Now we know our Earth is much bigger than our ancestors thought, it does not alter the problems of creation, how do we get on with each other despite all our differences?

God loves each and everyone of us as he loves himself, we should also love each and everyone of our neighbours as we love ourselves, and wherever we happen to be.

 

[wmw]

Originally Posted by wmw
In the afterlife not only will every knee bend, but if we feel short changed (of course we won’t) it will be more of a “wow, it would have been better if I had suffered more.” (not in a self destructive way, but in a “I should have done more to help others rather than pamper myself, taken risks, sacrifice more for others even to my detriment here on earth”)

How do you know this?

Though I may not have been the best of Christian diciples all my life, I’ve at least been a good student in Catholic high school. It is very much the heart of Christ teachings and when you’ve heard them many times in many ways you tend to have to put it in your own words because the sources are so numerous.

 

[wmw]

Atheists do not believe in an afterlife yet they believe in social justice. If there was no afterlife, it would make more sense to believe in social justice because this is the only life you’re going to get so we had better make it as best as possible. If there was no afterlife, suicide bombers could not look forward to an afterlife with 72 virgins. Why anyone would want 72 “mother-in-laws” anyway completely escapes me.

No, I wouldn’t try to pigeon hole the lot of atheists into being big fans of social justice or not. Some seem to think such human attempts for more justice almost crucial, but others sort of think that meaninglessness is just OK. That we are “wired” to seek it as social animals, but whatever falls out of this effort is what will be. Then there is a full spectrum in between.

All of this is a very separate idea from God bringing about all justice in the rewards of heaven as in the Christian point of view of the afterlife; so, let’s not confuse these either.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Atheists do not believe in an afterlife yet they believe in social justice. .

It is fine to believe in social justice, but I see mankind making a mess of this, twenty thousand innocent children die needlessly every single day as a result of grinding poverty and preventable disease, and we allow this to happen. They have the same right to a fair wage for a fair days work, but the rich countries exploit them, how will they get justice?

If there was no afterlife, it would make more sense to believe in social justice because this is the only life you’re going to get so we had better make it as best as possible. If there was no afterlife, suicide bombers could not look forward to an afterlife with 72 virgins. Why anyone would want 72 “mother-in-laws” anyway completely escapes me

What right did America and Britain have to bomb Iraq? thousands died and two million refugees fled from Iraq; choosing to leave everything behind. How will these people get justice? Potentially we have created future suicide bombers if these people do not get justice here on Earth.

Justice has to be fair to all people, only God can put this mess right.