Did HH Pope Francis Say This?

[JKirkLVNV]

This is a quotation taken from the Episcopal News Service regarding a supposed conversation between HH Pope Francis while Archbishop of Buenos Aires and the Rt. Rev. Gregory Venables, Anglican Bishop of Argentina and former Anglican Primate of the Southern Cone:

"For instance, Venables said, the former cardinal told him over breakfast one morning that “the Ordinariate was quite unnecessary and that the church needs us as Anglicans.”

Here is the link: episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2013/03/14/prayers-and-proclamations-abound-for-pope-francis/

I find this disturbing. The Pope is the visible principle of unity in the Church. He is supposed to call people to that unity. I think the Pontiff Emeritus did a great job at that. I know each pope is different and I know they do things differently, but this seems a rebuke of what the old Holy Father did (and did very well, as a successor to the Great Fisherman). It seems (emphasis on “seems”) that everything the Holy Father has done is kind of a rebuke of Pope Benedict. And it’s great that he has such a heart for the poor, but the first and primary mission of the Church is the salvation of souls.

 

[Megan7]

This is a quotation taken from the Episcopal News Service regarding a supposed conversation between HH Pope Francis while Archbishop of Buenos Aires and the Rt. Rev. Gregory Venables, Anglican Bishop of Argentina and former Anglican Primate of the Southern Cone:

"For instance, Venables said, the former cardinal told him over breakfast one morning that “the Ordinariate was quite unnecessary and that the church needs us as Anglicans.”

Here is the link: episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2013/03/14/prayers-and-proclamations-abound-for-pope-francis/

I find this disturbing. The Pope is the visible principle of unity in the Church. He is supposed to call people to that unity. I think the Pontiff Emeritus did a great job at that. I know each pope is different and I know they do things differently, but this seems a rebuke of what the old Holy Father did (and did very well, as a successor to the Great Fisherman). It seems (emphasis on “seems”) that everything the Holy Father has done is kind of a rebuke of Pope Benedict. And it’s great that he has such a heart for the poor, but the first and primary mission of the Church is the salvation of souls.

 

[Another_Mary]

Don’t believe everything you read about him.

Our local news on the radio last night announced that Pope Francis is in favor of contraception.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I think your first thought of it being a ‘supposed’ conversation may be the correct one. If the conversation happened overa private breakfast there is no way to verify what was said. The Reverand may have mis-heard or the reporter may have put his own spin on what he heard.

I think everyone in the weeks to come will have their own versions of what Pope Francis said to them before he was elected. I do not know how many of his talks or homilies have been recorded by his diocese, but since he is not extremely well-published (like Pope Benedict was), it will be easier for people to twist and slant things to suit their own views.

Of course an Anglican clergy isn’t going to be in favor of a program that helps Anglicans leave that church, but I will be suprised to find that His Holiness isn’t in favor of programs or methods to bring our separated bretheran (and others) back to full communion with the Catholic Church.

 

[pnewton]

Consider what we actually have here. We have an Episcopal reporter quoting an Anglican bishop about something the man said years in the past over breakfast. There obviously is no way to know what, if anything, was said about the ordinate, or the context. For that matter, it might have been said before the ordinate was established as no time frame exists, if anything at all like this was said. Too many Anglican filters are in this statement. Sometimes people hear what they want to hear.

 

[Tobias22]

I will wait for confirmation on this. So much is being printed from all sorts of sources. Like the stuff around the EF.

I do worry that Pope Francis will be so focused on the social outreach to the poor that he might neglect the ongoing attempts Benedict made to make the liturgy more reverent.

Time will tell.

 

[KathleenGee]

I was hearing before the election, that the Church needs to work on the liturgy…essentially take the congregationalism and worldliness out of the Mass and bring Christ back in.

The other I am hearing from one of my progressive clients is that Pope Francis is personally OK’ing use of condoms to save lives. Pier Morgan on CNN the other night challenge Rick Santorum what is wrong with the Pope saving Catholic lives from death using the condom?

Catholics and Christians in general having sex outside of marriage are committing mortal sin and mortal sin is more deadly than AIDS.

So he would have to define boundaries. Condoms by Catholics is immoral and a contradiction. Early Christians died for Christ rather than have sexual relations or be married.

It is directed towards non-Christians…but I would think, never for affirmed Christians as this is accommodating sexual immorality.

The wages of sin is death.

 

[McCall1981]

Consider what we actually have here. We have an Episcopal reporter quoting an Anglican bishop about something the man said years in the past over breakfast. There obviously is no way to know what, if anything, was said about the ordinate, or the context. For that matter, it might have been said before the ordinate was established as no time frame exists, if anything at all like this was said. Too many Anglican filters are in this statement. Sometimes people hear what they want to hear.

This is very true. You have to keep in mind that right now, since he just became Pope, people all over the world are looking to find “dirt” on him, anything he might have said or done over the whole course of his life that can in any way be construed (or twisted) into being “controversial”. Honestly, if this if this kind of pseudo-quote from a biased source made years ago over breakfast is all they can find, I think that’s very encouraging.

"I will wait for confirmation on this. So much is being printed from all sorts of sources. Like the stuff around the EF.

I do worry that Pope Francis will be so focused on the social outreach to the poor that he might neglect the ongoing attempts Benedict made to make the liturgy more reverent.

Time will tell."

Although I would prefer it if Pope Francis was a little more Liturgically inclined as well, I’m not too worried about this. I think Pope Benedict has already completed the work that was required liturgically, and we just have to give it time to grow organically from the ground up. Pope Francis would have to be actively hostile to this (and there’s no reason to think he is) to damage the reforms. I’m thinking he is just not much concerned with the Liturgy either way, and will essentially leave it alone, which will provide time for Benedict’s refroms to grow on their own.

 

[Tomdstone]

This is a quotation taken from the Episcopal News Service regarding a supposed conversation between HH Pope Francis while Archbishop of Buenos Aires and the Rt. Rev. Gregory Venables, Anglican Bishop of Argentina and former Anglican Primate of the Southern Cone:

"For instance, Venables said, the former cardinal told him over breakfast one morning that “the Ordinariate was quite unnecessary and that the church needs us as Anglicans.”

Here is the link: episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2013/03/14/prayers-and-proclamations-abound-for-pope-francis/

I find this disturbing. The Pope is the visible principle of unity in the Church. He is supposed to call people to that unity. I think the Pontiff Emeritus did a great job at that. I know each pope is different and I know they do things differently, but this seems a rebuke of what the old Holy Father did (and did very well, as a successor to the Great Fisherman). It seems (emphasis on “seems”) that everything the Holy Father has done is kind of a rebuke of Pope Benedict. And it’s great that he has such a heart for the poor, but the first and primary mission of the Church is the salvation of souls.

He might have been speaking of other ways to bring Anglicans into the Catholic Church. We don’t have the complete conversation and the context of the quote.

 

[dixieagle]

What concerns me far more than a distant “supposed conversation” with an Anglican is what supposed Catholics are saying about our new Holy Father; “He hates the Latin Mass”, “he supports contraception”, and on and on.

Do you really have so little faith in the Holy Spirit?

 

[oldcelt]

Since he is now the Pope he will be able to either confirm or deny these statements at his leisure. I agree with pnewton…the sources are a bit sketchy. I’ll join all the others here in waiting to hear what he has to say.

 

[pnewton]

The other I am hearing from one of my progressive clients is that Pope Francis is personally OK’ing use of condoms to save lives.

I donot think the new Pope has made many statements. He hasn’t even been installed yet.

 

[The_Bucket]

Although I would prefer it if Pope Francis was a little more Liturgically inclined as well, I’m not too worried about this. I think Pope Benedict has already completed the work that was required liturgically, and we just have to give it time to grow organically from the ground up. Pope Francis would have to be actively hostile to this (and there’s no reason to think he is) to damage the reforms. I’m thinking he is just not much concerned with the Liturgy either way, and will essentially leave it alone, which will provide time for Benedict’s refroms to grow on their own.

This. Pope Francis’ first homily was about how we need to ensure that we’re preaching the Gospel at all times and not just becoming another non-governmental organization aimed at helping the poor from a material perspective. It was spot on.

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/03/14/full-text-pope-franciss-first-homily-in-the-sistine-chapel/

Benedict served us all well in terms of reaffirming the Church’s doctrine and incorporating the traditional with the renewal that is part of the New Evangelization. Francis seems to be bringing the heart and disposition that will help soften those who have become hardened to the Gospel’s message.

 

[MaryT777]

Don’t believe everything you read about him.

Our local news on the radio last night announced that Pope Francis is in favor of contraception.

Of course! They want to have a Pope that will “modern up” the Church. I’m always
fascinated by how everyone is fascinated by the Pope, whether they are Bible alone
Churches or not!

As one noted "The Church has a lot of growing upt do do!) Really? We need to
get on the bandwagon for every sin like abortion? No thanks. I’ll pass.
Mary.
(There is ANOTHER MARY? No way!)

 

[einna]

Wow, let the poor man take a breath. Although the thought of becoming the pope might have crossed his mind at a later age, remember, joining the Jesuits meant he did not have a “dream” of this when he became a priest, as it is discouraged to climb the church hierarchy as a Jesuit priests. Pope Francis has faithfully done what the Pope ask of him and now he is in a position he probably never expected to be in. The Jesuit priest I know are stunned. So let us all give him time to adjust and let the Holy Spirit guide him before we all over react to hearsay.

 

[Another_Mary]

The other I am hearing from one of my progressive clients is that Pope Francis is personally OK’ing use of condoms to save lives.

I believe I heard an African Bishop or Cardinal quoted in the media as having said this if one of the married couple was HIV positive. I don’t think our Pope Francis said this when he was Cardinal. At least I can’t find any direct quote.

Of course now that someone has got the info out there online it will have a life of its own.

 

[Another_Mary]

I believe I heard an African Bishop or Cardinal quoted in the media as having said this if one of the married couple was HIV positive. I don’t think our Pope Francis said this when he was Cardinal. At least I can’t find any direct quote.

Here is a link to comments by Cardinal Peter Turkson that I think someone may have attributed to then Cardinal Bergoglio:
ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/african-cardinal-condoms-and-aids

Here’s another article that is sort of back pedaling:
abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/News/popes-condom-views-impact-aids-work/t/story?id=18723310

 

[Frank_Drebin]

What concerns me far more than a distant “supposed conversation” with an Anglican is what supposed Catholics are saying about our new Holy Father; “He hates the Latin Mass”, “he supports contraception”, and on and on.

Do you really have so little faith in the Holy Spirit?

Agreed. It happens all the time with new pontiffs, especially in the days of 24 hour news cycles. Accusations from every angle, some looking to slander, some hoping they have a new ally for their cause. I trust that he was an exemplary Catholic man BEFORE he was chosen, and that the Holy Spirit will hone him even moreso into the man God wants for the Church now.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

As the OP, I suppose I should explain a few things:

A) I’m a former Episcopalian who has been a Roman Catholic for 24 years. I continue to follow Episcopalian/Anglican news because, well, it’s kind of like a train-wreck, it’s hard to look away (I read National Catholic Reporter, as well, on the theory that to be annoyed is to be alive).

B) Archbishop/Bishop/Primate Venables is far, far more orthodox than, let’s say, virtually the entire House of Bishops of the Episcopal Church, USA. His province, the Province of the Southern Cone, has provided primatial oversight and a home, if you will, for conservative/orthodox Episcopal dioceses and their bishops who have left the Episcopal Church USA under the Presiding “Bishop” Katherine Jefferts Schori and realigned themselves with the Province of the Southern Cone (some have done so, I believe, with various African bishops). This was the route taken by Episcopalians/Anglicans who did not wish to remained aligned with radically heretical bishops and national Church’s. Whatever differences he has with us, Venables is quite “conservative” on issues such as the ordination of women and homosexual marriage, etc.

Just thought I’d add that, for what it’s worth. I am certainly willing to give the Holy Father the benefit of the doubt. It just seems odd that they would assert it so blithely if it didn’t happen.

 

[MaryT777]

As the OP, I suppose I should explain a few things:

A) I’m a former Episcopalian who has been a Roman Catholic for 24 years. I continue to follow Episcopalian/Anglican news because, well, it’s kind of like a train-wreck, it’s hard to look away (I read National Catholic Reporter, as well, on the theory that to be annoyed is to be alive).

B) Archbishop/Bishop/Primate Venables is far, far more orthodox than, let’s say, virtually the entire House of Bishops of the Episcopal Church, USA. His province, the Province of the Southern Cone, has provided primatial oversight and a home, if you will, for conservative/orthodox Episcopal dioceses and their bishops who have left the Episcopal Church USA under the Presiding “Bishop” Katherine Jefferts Schori and realigned themselves with the Province of the Southern Cone (some have done so, I believe, with various African bishops). This was the route taken by Episcopalians/Anglicans who did not wish to remained aligned with radically heretical bishops and national Church’s. Whatever differences he has with us, Venables is quite “conservative” on issues such as the ordination of women and homosexual marriage, etc.

Just thought I’d add that, for what it’s worth. I am certainly willing to give the Holy Father the benefit of the doubt. It just seems odd that they would assert it so blithely if it didn’t happen.

Thanks for that information. It’s nice to know the background of Posters. I will join you in giving the Holy Father the benfit of the doubt.
Mary.