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Sam_777
Guest
So Protestants & Mormons don’t drink wine at all?
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So Protestants & Mormons don’t drink wine at all?
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, Wwolverine,
Good question…
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Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons.
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Jesus told them, “Fill the jars with water.” So they filled them to the brim.
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Then he told them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.” 6 So they took it.
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And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom
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and said to him, “Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now.”
I think the ‘acid test’ was the headwaiter. The concept of juice being served at a wedding was probably unknown - and the wine was of such an outstanding flavor that the headwaiter berates the bridegroom for holding the ‘good stuff’ back. I guess the headwaiter did this because now this was a reflection on him as headwaiter not apparently knowing the different wines that were to be available at this wedding. The headwaiter was also experienced on what wine did to those who ‘drank freely’.
From my reading of John, I have every confidence that not only was wine served throughout the wedding - but, Christ provided the party with the best wine ever made!
God bless
Good question…
I think the answer lies in the fact that it was a miracle as recorded in John 2: 6-10
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Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons.
7
Jesus told them, “Fill the jars with water.” So they filled them to the brim.
8
Then he told them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.” 6 So they took it.
9
And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom
10
and said to him, “Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now.”
I think the ‘acid test’ was the headwaiter. The concept of juice being served at a wedding was probably unknown - and the wine was of such an outstanding flavor that the headwaiter berates the bridegroom for holding the ‘good stuff’ back. I guess the headwaiter did this because now this was a reflection on him as headwaiter not apparently knowing the different wines that were to be available at this wedding. The headwaiter was also experienced on what wine did to those who ‘drank freely’.
From my reading of John, I have every confidence that not only was wine served throughout the wedding - but, Christ provided the party with the best wine ever made!
God bless
M
Mimi
Guest
I don’t know the answer to your question, Sam 777
I do know that wine used in a Catholic Mass must be at least 12% alcohol to be valid matter.
It’s curious that, some non-Catholic sects claim they are practicing Christianity closer to the way the early Christians did, yet they would use grape juice instead of wine.
Wasn’t it John Henry Newman that said “To become deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.”
God bless,
Mimi
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I do know that wine used in a Catholic Mass must be at least 12% alcohol to be valid matter.
It’s curious that, some non-Catholic sects claim they are practicing Christianity closer to the way the early Christians did, yet they would use grape juice instead of wine.
Wasn’t it John Henry Newman that said “To become deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.”
God bless,
Mimi
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Bill_Pick
Guest
How long has the Baptist been using grape juice, I just heard of it being use in the last 50 years, The Baptist use grape juice because of they hate liquo.r.
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otjm
Guest
Actually, fermentation can start on fruit - grpaes or anythibng else - before it has been picked. One only has to watch the occasional bird that has eaten over ripe fruit in the late summer/fall. They fly somewhat like drunken sailors walk.
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otjm
Guest
Um, not exactly. A priest who is alcoholic may use what is called “mustum”, which is juice that has just started to ferment; the fermentation is then stopped and it is very low alcohol content. The wine used regularly must be unadulterated, meaning that nothing has been added (such as sulfites); I don’t know if that would include the use of clarifying agents, whioch drop out, but I suspect it might. I don’t know of any specifics of alcohol content, although there may be (and the exception thereto.).
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, Guyonthestreet,
Looks like you are right about it being a cut and paste item. And, yes, copyright is involved. But, surely you could have used a little more charity in pointing this out… eh?
All of your comments were about copyright which could have been handled as a private post to this copyright offender or as a post to the Moderator about your concerns.
About the only thing missing from your post was how much oil was going to be used to boil his post in!
Lighten up, please.
God bless
Looks like you are right about it being a cut and paste item. And, yes, copyright is involved. But, surely you could have used a little more charity in pointing this out… eh?
I would like to suggest that you have made your point and that we just move on to the topic at hand.
All of your comments were about copyright which could have been handled as a private post to this copyright offender or as a post to the Moderator about your concerns.
About the only thing missing from your post was how much oil was going to be used to boil his post in!
Lighten up, please.God bless
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celticsfan1983
Guest
Not sure on the date. Grape juice as we know it was invented in 1869, and churches started using it shortly thereafter. Here is a link so nobody jumps over me for plagiarizing.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grape_juice
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tomjoans
Guest
Hi to All,
You know God has a lot to say about being drunk, drunkards, drunkeness etc. i’m only going to quote (straight from God’s Word) one of them…1 Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor boy prostitutes, nor sodomites, v 10 Nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor robbers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. This is why I would not drink fermented wine. I’m not taking any chances not being able to inherit the kingdom of God. Just one may lead to another and then what? I’d rather be safe than sorry. I hope this doesn’t offend anyone because it’s not meant to. This is taken from the Saint Joseph’s New American Standard Bible, but you can research all the words on drunkeness and see for yourself. The way I see it, it doesn’t matter what Jesus drank. If we are going to follow Him, He is definately against drunkeness, so why start with one drink of wine?.
You know God has a lot to say about being drunk, drunkards, drunkeness etc. i’m only going to quote (straight from God’s Word) one of them…1 Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor boy prostitutes, nor sodomites, v 10 Nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor robbers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. This is why I would not drink fermented wine. I’m not taking any chances not being able to inherit the kingdom of God. Just one may lead to another and then what? I’d rather be safe than sorry. I hope this doesn’t offend anyone because it’s not meant to. This is taken from the Saint Joseph’s New American Standard Bible, but you can research all the words on drunkeness and see for yourself. The way I see it, it doesn’t matter what Jesus drank. If we are going to follow Him, He is definately against drunkeness, so why start with one drink of wine?.
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otjm
Guest
Because one drink of wine is not the equal of getting drunk. It is called moderation, and it is called self control.
Gluttony is also a sin; does one then not eat for fear of becoming a glutton?
Sex within marriage is also very pleasurable. Does one not then have sex in marriage because one might become lustfull or licentious?
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, Tomjoans,
I think the real issue is not to confuse the use of something with the abuse of that same thing.
As I recall… Psalm 104 13-15 says:
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You water the mountains from your palace; by your labor the earth abounds.
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You raise grass for the cattle and plants for our beasts of burden. You bring bread from the earth,
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and wine to gladden our hearts, Oil to make our faces gleam, food to build our strength. **
And Christ’s first miracle as recorded in John 2:3-11 was to make not only wine - but the best wine the headwaiter had tasted!
No where is this seen as an encouragement for drunks to continue drinking! And, honestly, if you have made a personal choice to not drink alcohol this is very good. But, this is a personal decision and not one advised by the Bible (the only advice is not to abuse the wine by getting drunk).
Sort of makes you wonder how Passover was celebrated (remember those pesky grapes won’t keep (as grapes) when picked in the fall season for the spring celebration of Passover.
) but rather loving God with your whole heart and your neighbor as yourself. While this can be done having had some wine - it can not be done drunk, or “…being with fornicators, idolaters, adulters, boy prostitutes or sodomites.”
Cheers…
I think the real issue is not to confuse the use of something with the abuse of that same thing.
As I recall… Psalm 104 13-15 says:
**13
You water the mountains from your palace; by your labor the earth abounds.
14
You raise grass for the cattle and plants for our beasts of burden. You bring bread from the earth,
15
and wine to gladden our hearts, Oil to make our faces gleam, food to build our strength. **
And Christ’s first miracle as recorded in John 2:3-11 was to make not only wine - but the best wine the headwaiter had tasted!
No where is this seen as an encouragement for drunks to continue drinking! And, honestly, if you have made a personal choice to not drink alcohol this is very good. But, this is a personal decision and not one advised by the Bible (the only advice is not to abuse the wine by getting drunk).
Sort of makes you wonder how Passover was celebrated (remember those pesky grapes won’t keep (as grapes) when picked in the fall season for the spring celebration of Passover.
Actually, I think the real action does not lie in not drinking wine (it sounds like you have this as an ‘insurance policy’ for getting into heaven…
) but rather loving God with your whole heart and your neighbor as yourself. While this can be done having had some wine - it can not be done drunk, or “…being with fornicators, idolaters, adulters, boy prostitutes or sodomites.”Cheers…
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, Celticsfan,
Not to get off the topic … too much… … but… the Baptists as a religion came into hisotry around 1569 ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptist ) or there abouts.
If grape juice was not invented until about 300 years later - would that make the use of grape juice as opposed to wine a tradition of men and not of God? (Col 2:8)
God bless
Not to get off the topic … too much…
… but… the Baptists as a religion came into hisotry around 1569 ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptist ) or there abouts.If grape juice was not invented until about 300 years later - would that make the use of grape juice as opposed to wine a tradition of men and not of God? (Col 2:8)
Just curious.
God bless
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Syele
Guest
Its a tradition of the Prohibition.
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EspositoJoe
Guest
Fermentation begins when the skin of the grape is broken. The chemical process to stop fermentation was only invented in 1920’s in response to prohibition, by the Welch’s Company. For them, it was a choice either to produce a non-alcoholic grape drink, or go out of business. Therefore, grape juice has only existed less than 100 years.
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Bill_Pick
Guest
The Bible will tell you that wine is good (not fron a Baptist) for you its the getting drunk that is not good it has to be in moderation (again dont tell the Baptists-)
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celticsfan1983
Guest
This article, abpnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1220&Itemid=119, talks about Baptist history with alcohol. According to Baptist Historian Bill Leonard, most Baptist churches used wine and spirits well into the late 19th century.Hi, Celticsfan,
Not to get off the topic … too much…
If grape juice was not invented until about 300 years later - would that make the use of grape juice as opposed to wine a tradition of men and not of God? (Col 2:8)
Just curious.
God bless
Indeed it is a man-made tradition. A terrible one at that: If Jesus drank wine, why should I use any kind of substitute?
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Bill_Pick
Guest
well I said this in a early post I do not remember grape juice until about 1950
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, Celticsfan,
Thanks for the excellent link!
On another topic … what is this about a murdered rooster…? Did the varment surrender peacefully or… otherwise?!
Thanks for the excellent link!
I got a chuckle out of the Baptist punchline bit…
On another topic … what is this about a murdered rooster…? Did the varment surrender peacefully or… otherwise?!
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Bill_Pick
Guest
I do not think prohibition has any thing to do with it,
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celticsfan1983
Guest
The temperance movement, which spurred prohibition, got a lot of our protestant brothers and sisters to drop alcohol from church.
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