Did Jesus drink wine or was it grape juice ?

[celticsfan1983]

On another topic … what is this about a murdered rooster…? Did the varment surrender peacefully or… otherwise?!

He’s still at large. Went from 14 hens and a rooster last week to nothing this week.

 

[Brendan]

Who’s got the beers?

Was it beer or was it barley juice

 

[Joe_Brown]

Doesn’t the Priest add water because water and blood is what came out of our Lords side when he was pierced on the cross?

 

[pipper]

Hi to All,
You know God has a lot to say about being drunk, drunkards, drunkeness etc. i’m only going to quote (straight from God’s Word) one of them…1 Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor boy prostitutes, nor sodomites, v 10 Nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor robbers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. This is why I would not drink fermented wine. I’m not taking any chances not being able to inherit the kingdom of God. Just one may lead to another and then what? I’d rather be safe than sorry. I hope this doesn’t offend anyone because it’s not meant to. This is taken from the Saint Joseph’s New American Standard Bible, but you can research all the words on drunkeness and see for yourself. The way I see it, it doesn’t matter what Jesus drank. If we are going to follow Him, He is definately against drunkeness, so why start with one drink of wine?.

Who said anything about drunkeness? That’s one thing I nver understood about fundamental Protestant teetotalers, one drink makes no-one drunk,and a tiny sip from the chalice will have no effect at all.

w

 

[Sam_777]

Hi to All,
You know God has a lot to say about being drunk, drunkards, drunkeness etc. i’m only going to quote (straight from God’s Word) one of them…1 Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor boy prostitutes, nor sodomites, v 10 Nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor robbers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. This is why I would not drink fermented wine. I’m not taking any chances not being able to inherit the kingdom of God. Just one may lead to another and then what? I’d rather be safe than sorry. I hope this doesn’t offend anyone because it’s not meant to. This is taken from the Saint Joseph’s New American Standard Bible, but you can research all the words on drunkeness and see for yourself. The way I see it, it doesn’t matter what Jesus drank. If we are going to follow Him, He is definately against drunkeness, so why start with one drink of wine?.

 

[Bill_Pick]

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

Sam, Lets see what the Bible has to say about drink=====

Matt. 26:27,29; Mark 14:23,25; Luke 22:17-18; 1 Cor. 11:25-27 - Jesus instituted the Eucharist using wine and commanded us to “do this in remembrance of me.” We know that Jesus instituted the Eucharist at the Jewish seder meal, which required the use of wine. Yet some Protestant churches forbid drinking wine. Such a prohibition is not based on the Scriptures.

Luke 7:33-34 - God the Son drank wine and was accused of being a drunk. Are those Protestant churches that forbid the drinking of wine doing the same?

John 2:1-11 - Jesus’ first miracle was turning water into wine which was drunk at the wedding at Cana. Wine is a symbol of the life of the Church, in both the Eucharist and, here, the sanctification of the sacrament of marriage. Verse 10 also indicates that the people drank enough wine at the feast to the point that they might not have recognized good wine from bad wine. Yet Jesus creates for them more wine to drink.

1 Tim. 5:23 - Paul tells Timothy to drink not just water, but a little wine for the sake of his stomach and frequent ailments. If Paul under divine inspiration encourages the drinking of wine, why do some Protestant churches prohibit it?

Gen. 14:18 - Melchizedek offers a bread and wine sacrifice, and Jesus is the Priest in the same manner. Heb. 5:6,10; 6:20; 7:15,17.

Gen. 27:25 - Isaac brought Jacob wine, and he drank, with God’s favor.

Neh. 8:10 - Nehemiah commands the faithful to drink sweet wine to celebrate the Lord and His holy day.

Psalm 104:15 - the Psalmist writes that “wine gladdens the heart of a man.” God gave us the fruit of the vine to enjoy.

Ecclesiastes 9:7 - “drink your wine with a merry heart, for God approves what you do.”

Wisdom 2:7 - “Let us take our fill of costly wine and perfumes!”

Sir. 31:25-28 - “Wine is like life if drunk in moderation.” God created wine to make us glad, so we rejoice in heart, and have gladness of soul.

Sir. 40:20 - “Wine gladdens the heart.”

Isaiah 25:6 - God will provide a feast of rich foods and choice wines.

Amos 9:14 - God declares that His people shall plant their vineyards and drink their wine.

Zech. 10:7 - God says that when He saves His people, their hearts shall be glad as with wine.

2 Mac. 15:39 - this verse also describes the pleasure of drinking wine. The point is that all God made is good, and we are called to enjoy His good gifts, including drinking wine, as long as we do so in moderation. And while we drink in moderation, the miracle that Jesus performed at the wedding feast at Cana suggests that we can have a second glass!
SCRIPTURE CATHOLIC

 

[Barry_Gabriel]

Wine.

I’ve heard some say that it couldn’t have been wine because there was no “time” for it to ferment. I wasn’t aware that miracles take “time”, though. I guess God can create grape juice from nothing, but can’t create wine from nothing. He has to make grape juice from nothing and then wait (in mortal time) for it to ferment, because, though God is great and all, it takes “time” to make wine.

That dead grapes argument? I guess if you can think of grapes as dead or alive, wouldn’t you have to say that grapes “die” when they’re no longer good? So, good grapes on the vine are alive. Good grapes in juice are alive. Good grapes in wine are alive. Raisins are alive. I’ve heard of fresh grapes, but not alive grapes.

Well said. At the first miracle and the Last Supper, the Greek (and I assume the Aramaic, I haven’t yet looked it up) word(s) used mean wine. Not grape juice, but wine. As soon as a grape is plucked from the vine to be made into grape juice (and wine), it dies. Life vs death symbolism is nice to meditate on, but it’s not what happened.forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon8.gif

 

[cthulhubryan]

With Methodists, this is a fairly recent thing. You used to be able to jokingly ask if the punch was Methodist (no alcohol) or Episcopalian (with alcohol)

 

[Syele]

The temperance movement, which spurred prohibition, got a lot of our protestant brothers and sisters to drop alcohol from church.

Exactly, and many protestants that before were fine with wine in communion stopped it at Prohibition in the US. between the temperance movement and prohibition people jumped on the "all alcohol is bad no matter what " bandwagon. They didnt want to be seen to be drinkers cause it was a. “unrespectable” and b. prohibited for most everyone else.

From About.com

Churches and clergy had a provision as well, which allowed them to receive wine for sacrament. This also led to corruption, as there are many accounts of people certifying themselves as ministers and rabbis in order to obtain and distribute large quantities of sacramental wine.

Advocates for prohibition thought that once liquor licenses were revoked reform organizations and churches could persuade the American public not to drink, “liquor traffickers” would not oppose the new law and saloons would disappear.

With social pressure that drinking in all forms is bad and the laws in place, the people pretending to be ministers to get it, I believe people caved to the pressure and decided to believe society/laws over The Scriptures and then taught the error to thier children and their grandchildren. For whoever doesn’t believe me, Go look up why Welch decided to make grape juice int he first place.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Cthulhubryan,

Hey! I remember those jokes…

With Methodists, this is a fairly recent thing. You used to be able to jokingly ask if the punch was Methodist (no alcohol) or Episcopalian (with alcohol)

God bless

 

[cthulhubryan]

In the part of the US where I was (Houston, CyFair, Rosenberg) there was definitely no temperance movement.

 

[Syele]

In the part of the US where I was (Houston, CyFair, Rosenberg) there was definitely no temperance movement.

The temperance movement was definitely there. It was form the 1840s to the 1930s. and it covered 32 states I think, including all of Texas.

 

[ML561]

Heavens above, of course Jesus drank wine. Has anyone been to a party where people drank pot after pot of grape juice? Of course not. And grape juice always tastes the same, whereas there are different types and qualities of wine. Remember how it was said that when Jesus changed water into wine at Cana, the steward remarked that “the best wine was kept until now?” I am surprised that anyone would ask such a question. As was remarked in a previous post, the whole argument over wine versus grape juice would never have been brought up if it were not for the fundamentalist movement, as well as other Protestant denominations who were against alcohol use in any form. Having been brought up in the Methodist Church, I observed that when we had communion (very infrequently, maybe four times a year) grape juice was always used. It felt incomplete. When I became Catholic I truly began to appreciate what I had been missing–the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist under the species of bread and wine, as He had intended. Peace be with you.

 

[ML561]

I would like to add one more thing to my previous post. Some people who are addicted to alcohol are scared to receive the Blood of Christ from the cup because they fear that it is a breach of their sobriety. I have been told that this is simply not true. A sip of consecrated wine can do no harm, although those who are uneasy may simply receive the Eucharist under the species of bread alone. I’ve also heard something which I believe to be untrue which comes from some AA members who say they are Catholic. They claim that in their churches both grape juice and wine are offered at the Mass. I have never seen such a thing. I have been to some Protestant services in which both wine and grape juice were offered at communion, but have never been to a Catholic Mass in which anything other than wine mixed with water was offered. My understanding is that only wine and water are to be consecrated. Peace.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, ML561,

Thank you for these excellent observations. I got quite a chuckle in thinking about the wedding group, “… drinking pot after pot of grape juice!”

Heavens above, of course Jesus drank wine. Has anyone been to a party where people drank pot after pot of grape juice? Of course not. And grape juice always tastes the same, whereas there are different types and qualities of wine. Remember how it was said that when Jesus changed water into wine at Cana, the steward remarked that “the best wine was kept until now?” I am surprised that anyone would ask such a question. As was remarked in a previous post, the whole argument over wine versus grape juice would never have been brought up if it were not for the fundamentalist movement, as well as other Protestant denominations who were against alcohol use in any form. Having been brought up in the Methodist Church, I observed that when we had communion (very infrequently, maybe four times a year) grape juice was always used. It felt incomplete. When I became Catholic I truly began to appreciate what I had been missing–the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist under the species of bread and wine, as He had intended. Peace be with you.

God bless

 

[Steven_John]

The smell of grape wine tends to make me want to hurl. It smells like something died. In fact the only way I can take the Eucharist is by taking only the host and giving the chalice a WIDE berth.

Hmm by the time you should get to the chalice it should no longer be wine?
I understand to non Catholics it maybe wine.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, ML561

Let me add something that is of concern involving the ingestion of ANY alcohol. There are drugs out there that will make a person highly sensitive to alcohol in any form and in any amount (gargling with alcohol containing mouth wash would be enough to set up the reaction). here is a link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfiram

I would like to add one more thing to my previous post. Some people who are addicted to alcohol are scared to receive the Blood of Christ from the cup because they fear that it is a breach of their sobriety. I have been told that this is simply not true. A sip of consecrated wine can do no harm, although those who are uneasy may simply receive the Eucharist under the species of bread alone.

So, not to be argumentative, but a sip of wine - no matter how small - in someone taking disulfiram (Antabuse) can make them VERY SICK. Some have actually died from drinking alcohol after taking disulfiram. There are other drugs similar to disulfiram - and anyone wishing not to take alcohol for medical reasons should have their wishes respected.

God bless

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Steven John,

Not quite…

Hmm by the time you should get to the chalice it should no longer be wine?
I understand to non Catholics it maybe wine.

The priest consecrates common bread and wine into the Body, Blood, Human Soul and Divinity of Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The physical properties of the now consecrated Bread and Wine are unchanged (the color, smell, taste, etc) while, in the words of Christ, “This is My Body” are what make up the essence.

Hope this clarifies the matter.

God bless

 

[Steven_John]

Hi Tom,
appreciate yur post, does the “wine” still have the same effect?

That is what it real properties.

Wine is of this world My Fathers kingdom is not.

By His will may He guide you and yours as yous submit unto Him

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Steven,

Alcohol content is just another physical feature of wine and would be the same for the consecrated Wine. One of the concerns that St. Paul expressed was people getting drunk at the Sacrifice of the Mass! Now, if this is from the consecrated Wine or wine from home - is not explained. But, the issue was being drunk at Mass.

Hi Tom,
appreciate yur post, does the “wine” still have the same effect?

That is what it real properties.

Wine is of this world My Fathers kingdom is not.

By His will may He guide you and yours as yous submit unto Him

Hope this helps.

God bless