Did Jesus "Know" God?

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I don’t think it made what He went through in the crucifixion any easier - because while God knows what crucifixion is like, His knowledge of it is on a different level to that of a human who physically experiences it.

A bit like my parents, being doctors, know an awful lot about cancer, and have been through the whole journey of suffering from cancer with countless numbers of their patients - and relatives - who have been through it.

Neither, however, has themselves been diagnosed with it. I’d imagine that if they were it would be very much a different thing to what they’ve perceived of it thus far.
 
Was he sure that God existed? Did he commune with him in a way that we cannot? It seems to me that he did, based on events like the Agony in the Garden, for one. True?
Jesus made very specific statements which demonstrates unequivocally that He is God (the Father and I are One; I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; if you have seen Me you have seen the Father) so it goes without saying that He has been in Eternal Communion with the Father (and the Holy Spirit).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Doesn’t this make what he did easier, then? It sounds awful, but I imagine that most people, if they knew there was a God and Heaven, would go through the crucifixion. That knowledge is a really big deal.
…would you become a lower lifeform for the sake of that lifeform?

If you own a dog and it caught some rare desease, would you allow scientists to perform experients on you in the possibility of discovering a cure to save your dog?

The greatest anguish suffered by Jesus was the separation from the Father and the Holy Spirit when He would receive onto Himself our punisment–as His Incarnated Body had to suffer our death so His Spiritual Being had to embrace our sins… would you toterate going to prison for someone else’s crimes? Would you go hungry for a day and give the money that you would have lavished on yourself to some wretched person that has gone without food for several days?

It is easy to speculate and diminish what we truly do not comprehend!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
I think the church teaches that Jesus’ soul saw the immediate vision of God.
The Church Teaches that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are the Holy Trinity, the Triune God (three Divine Persons in One God).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Second question:

I still cringe a bit reading it, but the question still stands. I think it would be very hard for any decent person (and I think most people are decent) to refuse God if they knew He existed and knew what he wanted them to do, as Jesus did.
So you are suggesting that Jesus just went through the “motion?”

If He did not take on the human nature and did not suffer in His Body the anguish, pain, and other human emotions wouldn’t you then claim that God cannot know how weak you are and that He is not fair because He did not suffer your pain, anguish, or any other human condition? Would you not be seeking a “get out of everything” card and just claim God’s Omnipotence and Spirituality as your defense?:

6 But the saving justice of faith says this: Do not think in your heart, ‘Who will go up to heaven?’ – 7 that is to bring Christ down; or ‘Who will go down to the depths?’ – that is to bring Christ back from the dead. 8 What does it say, then? The word is very near to you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the word of faith, the faith which we preach,
9 that if you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and if you believe with your heart that God raised him from the dead, then you will be saved. 10 It is by believing with the heart that you are justified, and by making the declaration with your lips that you are saved. 11 When scripture says: No one who relies on this will be brought to disgrace,
12 it makes no distinction between Jew and Greek: the same Lord is the Lord of all, and his generosity is offered to all who appeal to him, 13 for all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. 14 How then are they to call on him if they have not come to believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard of him? And how will they hear of him unless there is a preacher for them? 15 And how will there be preachers if they are not sent? As scripture says: How beautiful are the feet of the messenger of good news. (Romans 10:6-15)

31 After saying this, what can we add? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 Since he did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for the sake of all of us, then can we not expect that with him he will freely give us all his gifts? 33 Who can bring any accusation against those that God has chosen? When God grants saving justice 34 who can condemn? Are we not sure that it is Christ Jesus, who died – yes and more, who was raised from the dead and is at God’s right hand – and who is adding his plea for us? 35 Can anything cut us off from the love of Christ – can hardships or distress, or persecution, or lack of food and clothing, or threats or violence; 36 as scripture says: For your sake we are being massacred all day long, treated as sheep to be slaughtered? 37 No; we come through all these things triumphantly victorious, by the power of him who loved us. 38 For I am certain of this: neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nothing already in existence and nothing still to come, nor any power, 39 nor the heights nor the depths, nor any created thing whatever, will be able to come between us and the love of God, known to us in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:31-39)

God’s Way is indeed beyond human understanding!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Without God’s grace, we all falter. What makes things “easier” for the martyrs, is the particular grace God gives them in their crucial hour. They need never feel abandoned by God. On the other hand, our Blessed Lord did experience a type of singular “aloneness” during His Crucifixion, so that his abandonment might be more complete. We may never have words to adequately describe His abandonment (who could ever describe God the Son’s feeling of being abandoned by God the Father , as he hung dying on a Cross …) , but Christ’s own words “My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?”, attest to this fact.

We sometimes get “caught” , in our efforts to contemplate Christ - God .

In our perception of Him, we need to avoid inadvertently restricting his ability to experience things to those limitations of our own personal ability to experience - our own “aquired knowledge” we might say.

Although He became man, we still need to be careful not to “reduce” God . (I once heard a priest put it this way in a homily : “We humans are created in God’s image, but we seem to exhibit this tendency to try and re-create God in our own image.”)

Contemplating what Christ did for us will always draw some type of grace to our souls. Yet our efforts in this regard are more fruitful when we keep a firm grip on both truths : that Christ is both God and man. Grasping the next duality; that Christ is both Priest and Vicitm provides further insight.

If we cannot contemplate Christ the Priest, we remain with a more limited knowledge of what happened to Christ the Victim. In very simple terms: A deeper appreciation, awareness, and/or meaning of what Christ suffered can be found in contemplating what Christ *offered *(and continues to offer at each celebration of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass).

What Our Lord endured during his Passion - no human could ever endure. He saw every sin which would ever be committed. One wonders if this alone could ever be described in it’s totality even were we to consider all of His accounts to the saints…several excerpts for consideration :

**Divine Mercy **

ewtn.com/devotionals/mercy/novena.htm#9

“…Today bring to Me the Souls who have become Lukewarm,
and immerse them in the abyss of My mercy. These souls wound My Heart most painfully. My soul suffered the most dreadful loathing in the Garden of Olives because of lukewarm souls. They were the reason I cried out: ‘Father, take this cup away from Me, if it be Your will.’ For them, the last hope of salvation is to run to My mercy…”

Father John A. Hardon, S.J. ; With Jesus in Gethsemene

therealpresence.org/garden/gethsemane.htm

*"…And Jesus dreaded the prospect of death for sins He had not personally committed but that others deserved to expiate themselves. And most mysterious of all, because He foresaw the future, He saw that not all whom He would suffer and die for would profit from His Passion. There is nothing more sad than wasted suffering.

The bloody sweat of Jesus in the Garden of Olives reveals, in the words of the physician Luke, the intensity of Christ’s agony. Known to medical science, it is the most extreme form of suffering of which a human being is capable. The bloody sweat was induced by interior suffering, which is always the worst. Animals can have pain, but it is all in their bodies. Strictly speaking, only the human spirit can suffer because, even when the pain is bodily-caused, it is the soul that experiences the pain. But when the source of the suffering is from within, this is the acme of human endurance…" *

I personally encounter considerable difficulty in viewing anything Jesus went through for us during his Passion as being easy or easier.
 
Jesus is God and he knows what he is. For a better understanding read The Personality of Christ by Dom Anscar Vonier which can be downloaded free from the Internet.
 
Was he sure that God existed? Did he commune with him in a way that we cannot? It seems to me that he did, based on events like the Agony in the Garden, for one. True?
Our Catholic Creed; a Dogmatic statement:

“We believe (I believe) in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And (I believe) in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess (I confess) one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for (I look for) the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.”
 
the truth is
He knows God more than you do
For he came from God
Was God
was not
but will be again
when everyone is God with him

because he is the way
he will lead you to god

he was adam
he came from adam

but in his day
others did not know him
as they would not know him today

But some would look at him
and know him
and remember

you came from god
because you do not need to ask us questions
you already know what we are thinking

and such is the power of god
 
Ebony Eve, That doesn’t seem to be a response or an answer to the question. Why on earth did you even post it? If you don’t believe that Jesus was God the Son who took on a human nature (while remaining God) and suffered and died to reconcile us to Himself, and that He rose from the dead and is now alive, how can you assist the questioner in contemplating what Christ experienced when He died?
 
To respond to the second question… I know that God exists and I have a well-founded hope that I will go to heaven. Would that make suffering horrible torture and death easier for me to endure than for someone who doesn’t know that God and heaven exist? Maybe. Marginally. Because I have hope. But it wouldn’t make the agony less.

In fact, Jesus was a strong and healthy man and was God. He was capable of experiencing and enduring much more suffering than a weak frail person could. He probably suffered more exquisitely than anyone else ever has. So I’d say that physically He suffered more. And emotionally he suffered the rejection of His own people and of everyone in the history of the world who has turned against Him. His feeling of abandonment was much sharper than ours would have been because the union with the Father that He was accustomed to feeling was much closer than ours. So I think His suffering and death were much harder than ours, not easier.
 
I’m not going to laugh at the OP for making such a question
Did Jesus Know God
. In some matter of speaking such a question can seem as though a child were posing the same question humbly seeking to know God.

Saint John of the Cross writes beautiful sublime poetry about God/Jesus.

Taken from the First Romance of the Gospel of Saint John.
  1. In the beginning the Word Was;
    He lived in God And possessed in Him
    His infinite happiness.
  2. That same Word was God,
    Who is the Beginning;
    And had no beginning.
  3. He was himself the Beginning
    And therefore had no beginning,
    The Word is called Son;
    He was born of the beginning.
  4. Who had always conceived Him
    And was always conceiving Him,
    Giving of His substance always
    Yet always possessing it.
5.And thus the glory of the Son
Was the Father’s glory,
And the Father possessed
All His glory in the Son.
  1. As the lover in the Beloved
    Each lived in the Other,
    And the Love that unites them
    Is one with them.
  2. Their equal, excellent as
    The One and the Other;
    Three Persons, and one Beloved
    Among all three.
  3. One love in them all
    Makes of them one Lover,
    And the Lover is the Beloved
    In whom each one lives.
  4. For the being that the three possess
    Each of them possesses,
    And each of them loves
    Him who bears this being.
  5. Each one is this being
    Which alone unites them
    Binding them deeply
    One beyond words.
  6. Thus it is a boundless
    love that unites them,
    For the three have one love
    Which is their essence;
    And the more love is one
    The more it is Love.
How could anyone doubt that Jesus in the Mystery of the Holy Trinity never Knew God?
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit throughout eternity have always been ONE.
 
i am assuming your question is was it easier for Christ to go to the Cross?
No.
 
Doesn’t this make what he did easier, then? It sounds awful, but I imagine that most people, if they knew there was a God and Heaven, would go through the crucifixion. That knowledge is a really big deal.
Jesus suffered and sacrificed himself for us that is undeniable. I think he suffered to the extent to what was possible for his nature has King and God and dual nature.

You are asking if he was able to tap into his nature for confidence and reassurance, then we also need to consider. Being a King and volunteering for this task would have been a greater sacrifice has he would have known he gives up a greater advantage.

In the garden he comes to this realization and asks to be taken from the task, but does it out of love for God. So knowing he was a God and could be in a better place and hanging there must have been more torturous than any of us would experience.

Andy 🙂
 
Doesn’t this make what he did easier, then? It sounds awful, but I imagine that most people, if they knew there was a God and Heaven, would go through the crucifixion. That knowledge is a really big deal.
I think we’ve firmly established that Jesus knew God. To address this question, we can look at another point in Scripture. One, in a similar fashion, may ask that if one knew with absolute, intimate certainty that there was a God and Heaven, then it should be easier to bear the loss of a loved one. But, Scripture tells us that Jesus wept at the news of his good friend Lazarus’ death.
 
I have to strongly disagree with those that said that knowing God would make it easier for Jesus to face thecross. No, he probably suffered more than any human will. If he didn’t suffer fully, he would not be fully human. I don;t think we can fully comprehend this because to understand this means to fully understand how someone can be 100% God AND 100% human. We know that it happened but we cannot fully understand it.

God Bless.
 
I think we’ve firmly established that Jesus knew God. To address this question, we can look at another point in Scripture. One, in a similar fashion, may ask that if one knew with absolute, intimate certainty that there was a God and Heaven, then it should be easier to bear the loss of a loved one. But, Scripture tells us that Jesus wept at the news of his good friend Lazarus’ death.
But, Scripture tells us that Jesus wept at the news of his good friend Lazarus’ death.
Jesus didn’t weep because of Lazarus death, He was weeping for us of little faith when faced with seeing our own loved ones die before us.
 
Jesus didn’t weep because of Lazarus death, He was weeping for us of little faith when faced with seeing our own loved ones die before us.
Where did you pull that interpretation from?

Why does the Evangelist carefully in several places mention that “He wept,” and that, “He groaned”? That you may learn that He had of a truth put on our nature. For when this Evangelist is remarkable for uttering great things concerning Christ more than the others, in matters relating to the body, here he also speaks much more humbly than they.
-- Saint John Chrysostom (Homilies on the Gospel of John)​

Would any man have dared to touch even with his little finger, the body of Christ, if it had been of an unusual nature; or to smear His face with spitting, if it had not invited it (by its abjectness)? Why talk of a heavenly flesh, when you have no grounds to offer us for your celestial theory? Why deny it to be earthy, when you have the best of reasons for knowing it to be earthy? He hungered under the devil’s temptation; He thirsted with the woman of Samaria; He wept over Lazarus; He trembles at death (for “the flesh,” as He says, “is weak” Matthew 26:41); at last, He pours out His blood.
-- Tertullian (On the Flesh of Christ)​

And what wonder if He grieved for all, Who wept for one? What wonder if, in the hour of death, He is heavy for all, Who wept when at the point to raise Lazarus from the dead? Then, indeed, He was moved by a loving sister’s tears, for they touched His human heart…It was a bodily weakness, then, that is to say, a weakness of ours, that He hungered; when He wept, and was sorrowful even unto death, it was of our nature.
-- Saint Ambrose (Exposition of the Christian Faith)​
 
Where did you pull that interpretation from?

Why does the Evangelist carefully in several places mention that “He wept,” and that, “He groaned”? That you may learn that He had of a truth put on our nature. For when this Evangelist is remarkable for uttering great things concerning Christ more than the others, in matters relating to the body, here he also speaks much more humbly than they.
-- Saint John Chrysostom (Homilies on the Gospel of John)​

Would any man have dared to touch even with his little finger, the body of Christ, if it had been of an unusual nature; or to smear His face with spitting, if it had not invited it (by its abjectness)? Why talk of a heavenly flesh, when you have no grounds to offer us for your celestial theory? Why deny it to be earthy, when you have the best of reasons for knowing it to be earthy? He hungered under the devil’s temptation; He thirsted with the woman of Samaria; He wept over Lazarus; He trembles at death (for “the flesh,” as He says, “is weak” Matthew 26:41); at last, He pours out His blood.
-- Tertullian (On the Flesh of Christ)​

And what wonder if He grieved for all, Who wept for one? What wonder if, in the hour of death, He is heavy for all, Who wept when at the point to raise Lazarus from the dead? Then, indeed, He was moved by a loving sister’s tears, for they touched His human heart…It was a bodily weakness, then, that is to say, a weakness of ours, that He hungered; when He wept, and was sorrowful even unto death, it was of our nature.
-- Saint Ambrose (Exposition of the Christian Faith)​
When I said that Jesus was weeping for us of little faith I was also trying to refer to those who were also present before Lazareth at the time.

Some Catholic theologians argue as to whether he actually wept before Lazareth.
Some say He groaned as if a heavy sigh. Perhaps Jesus did have watery tears in His eyes. But why would such tears be for Lazareth when Jesus had full knowledge of the human emotional turmoil of those present before Lazareth. Jesus often reminded His followers of what little faith they had as do we at times. Jesus knew the whole scenario played out by His followers even before He arrived on the scene with Lazareth. Surely Jesus groaning upon summoning His Godly power to raise Lazareth to life perceived what little faith were in His followers heart. And Jesus clearly made that example apparent for only He has the power to raise the Dead to Life.

Have you ever read Archbishop Fulton Sheen’s book the Life of Christ and in particular Chapter 54: (“The Earth’s Most Serious Wound…The Empty Tomb pg 423-439?”)
It summarizes Mary Magdalene in the Garden and meeting the unknown face of Jesus as the Gardener
Beautiful touching words penned by Bishop Sheen where he speaks of Mary Magdalene saddened by her little faith Looking For The One Love She had Lost in hopeful expectation of Jesus Promise that He would Rise from the Dead.

In the Peace of Christ
Chris
 
When I said that Jesus was weeping for us of little faith I was also trying to refer to those who were also present before Lazareth at the time.

Some Catholic theologians argue as to whether he actually wept before Lazareth.
Some say He groaned as if a heavy sigh. Perhaps Jesus did have watery tears in His eyes. But why would such tears be for Lazareth when Jesus had full knowledge of the human emotional turmoil of those present before Lazareth. Jesus often reminded His followers of what little faith they had as do we at times. Jesus knew the whole scenario played out by His followers even before He arrived on the scene with Lazareth. Surely Jesus groaning upon summoning His Godly power to raise Lazareth to life perceived what little faith were in His followers heart. And Jesus clearly made that example apparent for only He has the power to raise the Dead to Life.
And isn’t that the heart of this thread? What impact did such absolute knowledge have on Jesus? I contend that as Jesus had a full human nature that he had all the emotions that go along with that nature, including sorrow and apprehension.
Have you ever read Archbishop Fulton Sheen’s book the Life of Christ and in particular Chapter 54: (“The Earth’s Most Serious Wound…The Empty Tomb pg 423-439?”)
It summarizes Mary Magdalene in the Garden and meeting the unknown face of Jesus as the Gardener Beautiful touching words penned by Bishop Sheen where he speaks of Mary Magdalene saddened by her little faith Looking For The One Love She had Lost in hopeful expectation of Jesus Promise that He would Rise from the Dead.
I recall reading the book, but don’t remember the details of it enough to know what was penned.
 
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