Did Jesus of Bible claim he is God?

[inJESUS]

Ah the thread is still alive

putting all scripture/tradition quotations aside, is there one Biblical prophet who was not understood to be a human being and nothing else? did any Biblical prophet “give the impression” he is more than a human? is there one Biblical prophet who uttered what Jesus uttered about Himself? if not, then how come is Jesus the only one whom people “misunderstood” so badly according to JW and others?is Jesus the worse “prophet” communication-wise so that dozens of what He said is “misunderstood” and everything He uttered is pretty normal to be uttered by a mere human yet no other prophet uttered it?

 

[inJESUS]

i’ll comment on the ones i would quote

Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 - Jesus says that He is “Lord of the Sabbath.” He is the Lord of God’s law which means He is God.

this one for example, speaks a lot. Is there any prophet who dared utter that he is the Lord of God’s Law? is there any prophet who dared say he is more important than God’s temple? if Jesus is a mere human, then what can this be called other than utter blasphemy?

Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.

any other prophet gave such a statement? how can Jesus be in the midst of any 2 people gathering unless He is omnipotent and omnipresent?

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

ditto. I dont remember reading about any other prophet who uttered this.

John 10:18 - Jesus says He has the power to lay down His life and take it up again - Gal. 1:1 - God raised Jesus to life.

it’s the Trinity

John 14:6 - Jesus says “I am the way, and the truth and the life.” Only God is the way, the truth and the life.

yep

John 16:15 - Jesus says, “all things that the Father has are Mine.” Jesus has everything God has which makes Him God.

did any prophet utter this before? not to my knowledge.

Rev. 1:8 - God says He is the *“Alpha and the Omega.” *In Rev. 22:13, Jesus also says He is the *“Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end.” *The only possible conclusion one can reach is that Jesus is equal to the Lord God.

or He is blaspheming. I see no other conclusion.

Rev. 1:17 - Jesus says again, *“I am the First and the Last.” *This is in reference to the God prophesied by Isaiah in Isaiah 44:6, 41:4, 48:12.

maybe mere coincidence

Not to add that Jesus says He gives peace the world cannot give. Since when can any human give peace the world cannot give?

Jesus says He gives wisdom. Since when do human beings give wisdoms?

Jesus gives peace, Jesus gives wisdom, Jesus gives life, Jesus judges, Jesus is omnipotent and omnipresent, Jesus does everything God does, Jesus owns eveything God does, Jesus knows the hearts and thoughts of people…

conclusion? Jesus is a human being ! well surely we are not humans then.

 

[Padrecito]

When I was in seminary, we had a nutty professor who tried to discount the “I AM” statements of Jesus in John. He said that “certainly Jesus would never go around claiming to be God, that would be blasphemy to the Jews!”

To which one of my classmates responded, “Yeah, they probably would have crucified him.”

Ba da bum (true story).

• Padrecito

 

[Ahimsa]

When I was in seminary, we had a nutty professor who tried to discount the “I AM” statements of Jesus in John. He said that “certainly Jesus would never go around claiming to be God, that would be blasphemy to the Jews!”

To which one of my classmates responded, “Yeah, they probably would have crucified him.”

Ba da bum (true story).

• Padrecito

Your classmate should become a writer in Hollywood.

 

[Benadam]

Ah the thread is still alive

putting all scripture/tradition quotations aside, is there one Biblical prophet who was not understood to be a human being and nothing else? did any Biblical prophet “give the impression” he is more than a human? is there one Biblical prophet who uttered what Jesus uttered about Himself? if not, then how come is Jesus the only one whom people “misunderstood” so badly according to JW and others?is Jesus the worse “prophet” communication-wise so that dozens of what He said is “misunderstood” and everything He uttered is pretty normal to be uttered by a mere human yet no other prophet uttered it?

It amazes me too. How sublime simple concepts can be when strung together by someone who looks out on this world and describes what it looks like from heaven.

How can anyone deny that the reality Jesus revealed was entirely other worldly and at the same time the real meaning of this one. No one ever before described in real-time the earth as God created it, united to heaven, because in no one else was the union of heaven and earth hypostatic. This is the reason people would flock around Him and want to stay in some way close to Him. To listen to Him speak, anything He spoke about whatever was to hear it spoke of from someone who see’s it from heaven.

As John the Baptist explained in plain earthly words , that Jesus is not of the earth He is from heaven and testifies to what He see’s.
No one believed Jesus’ testimony. But John certified that ‘God’ is true.

31 He that cometh from above, is above all. He that is of the earth, of the earth he is, and of the earth he speaketh. He that cometh from heaven, is above all. 32 And what he hath seen and** heard,** that he testifieth: and no man receiveth his testimony. 33 He that hath received his testimony, hath set to his seal that God is true. 34 For he whom God hath sent, speaketh the words of God: for God doth not give the Spirit by measure. 35 The Father loveth the Son: and he hath given all things into his hand.

What prophet ever had a prophet say these things about him? That he is not of the earth, that he is from heaven that he is above all…the greatest prophet ever born say’s Jesus is from above and is above all… what other prophet ever had another prophet who’s whole mission was to prepare the way for him?what else can it mean but that Jesus is Divine? Especially if that prophet is described as the greatest prophet ever born. What else can it mean?

John validated Jesus’ testimony on earth. John’s validation : that God is true. John certified that what Jesus testified to was what God say’s and what Jesus see’s is what God see’s. This is what John said about Jesus. He didn’t say that Jesus testified for another as a messenger but that Jesus’ testified to what he see’s and that testimony is from heaven, and then say’s in reference to that testimony ‘God is true’.

 

[cascherman]

Hi

I being an Ahmadi Muslim don’t think so.

It might be an exaggeration of the Catholics stemming from the misconception that Jesus got killed, by hands of the Jews, disgracefully on the Cross.

This concept has been refuted amply by the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 by receiving a Word of GodAllahYHWH, by arguments from the Bible/Quran/History etc in a short book of about a hundred small pages. One may benefit from it by accessing, only if one likes, to see the other side of the issue:
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html

Thanks

This is absolutely meant with respect in you believing what you believe, but you will not get much support from a Catholic or Christian by having them read the Qu’ran. There are older documents than the Qu’ran supporting Christ’s divinity. It’s kinda like telling us to go read the Golden Tablets of the Mormons. Both books were transcribed without anyone else other than the ‘authors’ being privy to the original revelation (I know there were scribes in certain cases), But I have a problem with the single person Revelation idea when it ‘creates’ a new religion meant to be the absolute truth leaving all others as heretical. It’s totally subject to that person and their imagination (really really trying not to offend, I hope I haven’t, just trying to share what I think).

My 2 cents.

edit- Oh and from your link

The theme is the escape of Jesus from death on the cross, and his journey to India in search of the lost tribes of Israel.

Let’s say he escaped and fooled all his followers and family. The Bible would still be authentic records of what Jesus said, and he never mentioned any mission of ‘looking for the lost tribes of Israel’. This idea just doesn’t fit with what Christ preached.

It’s a novel way of refuting Christ’s Resurrection, but it’s lack of support from groups (non-Islamic) who would like nothing more than to disprove Christ’s resurrection makes it unbelievable.

 

[mgrfin]

Hi

I being an Ahmadi Muslim don’t think so.

It might be an exaggeration of the Catholics stemming from the misconception that Jesus got killed, by hands of the Jews, disgracefully on the Cross.

This concept has been refuted amply by the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 by receiving a Word of GodAllahYHWH, by arguments from the Bible/Quran/History etc in a short book of about a hundred small pages. One may benefit from it by accessing, only if one likes, to see the other side of the issue:
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html

Thanks

What’s next: “The Holocaust never happened”?

maranatha

 

[cascherman]

I read the first part of the first Chapter in ‘Jesus in India’. The introductory paragraphs of this type of book should be a basis for an argument. They should be able to be grasped and be agreed upon by most everyone who has interest reading the book. Then later in the book you get into the debatable items. This book starts out with very very weak basic evidence for Jesus’ ‘swindling’ of his followers. If you cannot build upon the introduction because it’s foundation is weak then I doubt the book is very believable (this is just an introductory view I had from reading the beginnings of the book, in no way did I read it in its entirety).

Starting out arguments are Jesus merely had a “swoon or a fit of fainting” on the cross and was brought down and woke up 3 days later. We’ll touch on that in a second.

Another quote: “Among the testimonies of the Bible in support of Jesus’ escape from death on the Cross is his journey to a far-off place, on which he started after coming out of the tomb.”

Yes, a mere 3 days after being beaten close to death by the Roman guards, stabbed in the side of his body so water came out (spear entered his inner cavity with fluid) , and crucified (which is deadly in and of itself), he began a journey to INDIA. a mere 2,500 miles away!

Does anyone else see the PLAIN problems with this argument?

Read the secular history of the abuses crucifixion victims would go through before being crucified by Roman punishment, and then details on what happens to your body during crucifixion (one of the most brutal and excruciating (that word has it’s root in ‘Crucify’) ways to be put to death) And after all this he just fainted and went on a 2,500 mile journey 3 days later.

The infection from the inner cavity of the abdomen being opened up would be enough to hospitalize someone with modern medicine for a week if not more.

 

[Albina]

Did Jesus of Bible claimed he is God in any book of Bibles?

Here is a typical answer from a Christian:

Does this “answer” make any sense at all?

Hi how r u doing? here is some good info for you

Jesus Christ the Son of God
homepage.mac.com/shanerosenthal/reformationink/tbsonofgod.htm

What think Ye of Christ?

thirdmill.org/newfiles/joh_witmer/joh_witmer.whatthinkyeofchrist.html

Jesus is Yahweh(The Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ)

forananswer.org/Top_JW/JesusJehovah.htm

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hebrews 13:8 (New International Version)

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

 

[swariffin]

I read the first part of the first Chapter in ‘Jesus in India’. The introductory paragraphs of this type of book should be a basis for an argument. They should be able to be grasped and be agreed upon by most everyone who has interest reading the book. Then later in the book you get into the debatable items. This book starts out with very very weak basic evidence for Jesus’ ‘swindling’ of his followers. If you cannot build upon the introduction because it’s foundation is weak then I doubt the book is very believable (this is just an introductory view I had from reading the beginnings of the book, in no way did I read it in its entirety).

Starting out arguments are Jesus merely had a “swoon or a fit of fainting” on the cross and was brought down and woke up 3 days later. We’ll touch on that in a second.

Another quote: “Among the testimonies of the Bible in support of Jesus’ escape from death on the Cross is his journey to a far-off place, on which he started after coming out of the tomb.”

Yes, a mere 3 days after being beaten close to death by the Roman guards, stabbed in the side of his body so water came out (spear entered his inner cavity with fluid) , and crucified (which is deadly in and of itself), he began a journey to INDIA. a mere 2,500 miles away!

Does anyone else see the PLAIN problems with this argument?

Read the secular history of the abuses crucifixion victims would go through before being crucified by Roman punishment, and then details on what happens to your body during crucifixion (one of the most brutal and excruciating (that word has it’s root in ‘Crucify’) ways to be put to death) And after all this he just fainted and went on a 2,500 mile journey 3 days later.

The infection from the inner cavity of the abdomen being opened up would be enough to hospitalize someone with modern medicine for a week if not more.

Yes, and Paarsurrey faith with respect to his ProphetMessiah’s book is commendable tough (so much that some of us call it as blind faith), it is exactly just like such book is a direct, word-by-word dictation from God.

 

[swariffin]

What’s next: “The Holocaust never happened”?

maranatha

Dear PaarSurrey,

After reading your PromisedMessiah book I got more confused. For example, how your PromisedMessiah came into conclusion that the teaching of Buddhists derived from Jesus? Are you saying that Sidharta Gauthama came after Jesus? The history books must be rewritten so that your PromisedMessiah could be correct.

 

[paarsurrey]

Dear PaarSurrey,
After reading your PromisedMessiah book I got more confused. For example, how your PromisedMessiah came into conclusion that the teaching of Buddhists derived from Jesus? Are you saying that Sidharta Gauthama came after Jesus? The history books must be rewritten so that your PromisedMessiah could be correct.

Hi

I think there is some gap in your understanding the book. The PromisedMessiah1835-1908 has not said anywhere in the book “Jesus in India” that Buddha came after Jesus, in fact he has established in the book that Jesus came to India which fulfilled the prophecy of Buddha.

Kindly read the chapter again and it would be clear to you.

Thanks

 

[AbeOman]

SNIPPED…

I don’t want to be pedantic, but why not also quote many versus were Jesus says clearly I’m not God and I"m nothing like God.

Moreover, John 10:30 must be quoted in context with other verses through John 10:23 to John 10:30.

equally, the same applies to all the verses you have quoted, let’s not be selective of how and what we quote from the bible.

Thanks

 

[MH84]

AbeOman,

you are just selecting quotes yourself.

Over time I am figuring out that you need to have faith that Jesus is God. “Forcing” God to give you what you want by using the Bible in a political way to say “see Jesus is not saying He is God here, and He is denying this here and saying this here is not what the Bible should be used for”.

Youll never get to understand the message like that. In fact if you are not careful you end up putting God to the test.

Jesus revealed the Gospel and showed Himself to be much more than a prophet. The works Jesus did gave glory to God the Father, especially through the redemption he gave us through crucifixion:

John 17:
**1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. **2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. **4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. **B]5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

The Israelites constantly demanded a sign from God. They put Him to the test while they were in the desert after leaving Egypt, even after He freed them from slavery and opression:

Exodus 14
10 As Pharaoh approached, the Israelites looked up, and there were the Egyptians, marching after them. They were terrified and cried out to the LORD. 11 They said to Moses, “Was it because there were no graves in Egypt that you brought us to the desert to die? What have you done to us by bringing us out of Egypt? 12 Didn’t we say to you in Egypt, ‘Leave us alone; let us serve the Egyptians’? It would have been better for us to serve the Egyptians than to die in the desert!”

13 Moses answered the people, “Do not be afraid. Stand firm and you will see the deliverance the LORD will bring you today. The Egyptians you see today you will never see again. 14 The LORD will fight for you; you need only to be still.”

Then before the public ministry of Jesus satan put Him to the test:

Matthew 4:
5Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6"If you are the Son of God," he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
" 'He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.”

7Jesus answered him, “It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.”

So did the Jews after He was crucified:

Matthew 27:
39Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads 40and saying, “You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!”

41In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him.

Then not long later:

Matthew 27:
54When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, “Surely he was the Son of God!”

55Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs.

I think that the whole mystery of Jesus was not revealed until after the ressurection then the glory of Jesus was fully revealed. He had completed His mission as the suffering servant.

Philippians 2:
1If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. 3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. 4Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
** 5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross! **** 9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.**

 

[zerinus]

I don’t want to be pedantic, but why not also quote many versus were Jesus says clearly I’m not God and I"m nothing like God.

I don’t recall Jesus ever saying that He was not God. What He does, however, is that He frequently demonstrates His subordination and subservience to the Father by what He says or does. For example, He prays to God. He declares that, “My Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). He says, “Why callest thou me good? . . .” (Matthew 19:17). Now you may well ask, How can Jesus be God, and at the same time pray to God? How can God pray to God? Well, that is a good question that deserves to be answered. But this question should be asked in conjunction with the other passages in which He does appear to be claiming divinity for Himself. I turn your own statement back to you. While we don’t want to ignore these types of quotes, we don’t want to ignore those either. Both require an explanation.

Moreover, John 10:30 must be quoted in context with other verses through John 10:23 to John 10:30.

equally, the same applies to all the verses you have quoted, let’s not be selective of how and what we quote from the bible.

I was not impressed by the list of the scriptural quotes he had given. It is better to quote a few truly relevant quotes than lots of irrelevant ones, which do not establish the case being made. Let’s take this one for example:

John 17:

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

How do you interpret that? How could He have had a “glory” with God before He was born? What type of “glory” was He referring to? Which prophet you know ever talked like this before? These are also important questions that need to be answered.

It is indeed difficult for a Moslem to accept the doctrine of the divinity of Jesus Christ. They way their theology is constructed makes it very difficult for them to do that. The only way they can do that is to accept first that what they have been taught in the Koran and in their religious traditions about Jesus and His mission is wrong. Jesus was the Son of God, and He repeatedly said so. Not only did He did die on the cross; but His death is absolutely central to Christian doctrine. By so doing He made an atonement for the sins of the world, and became the savior and redeemer of all mankind—a role that was assigned to Him in Old Testament scripture. His resurrection is absolutely pivotal to Christian doctrine—and I might add to some aspects of Islamic doctrine. Islam believes in the resurrection of the dead. Well, how did the resurrection come about? What made it possible? It was made possible through the redemption, the atonement, the sacrifice, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Unless you come to a realization that what the Koran and Islam teaches about these doctrines are incorrect, it will not be easy for a Moslem to accept these central tenets of Christianity, the most important of which is the divinity of Christ. Islam is not wrong about everything. There are a lot of truths and good doctrines in it. But about these central tenets of Christianity, it is dead wrong.

zerinus

 

[bogoljub]

God bless !!

In quran the two most honored persons are Christ and Mariam.

It is interesting that the quran also speaks of Allah in plural -we have given u…when Allah is only one in the absolut sense and not unique why he is speaking of himseve in plural ?

IN CHRIST

 

[MH84]

Hebrews 13:8 (New International Version)

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

I dont think I have ever realised the weight of this verse. Too me it seems to imply the unchangeablity of Christ. Here it is in context below.

**Hebrews 13
6So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

**7Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

8Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

9Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. **

10We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. **

www.biblegateway.com

 

[peary]

.

I was not impressed by the list of the scriptural quotes he had given. It is better to quote a few truly relevant quotes than lots of irrelevant ones, which do not establish the case being made. Let’s take this one for example:

John 17:

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

zerinus

A Muslim needs to understand the Church before anything else.

 

[DLC]

Jesus many times claimed to be God. His miracles attested to this fact as well. Read John 10:27-36 and answer this question. Why did the Jewish leaders tear their clothes?

DLC